Should we stop asking celebrities about feminism?

I think maybe it’s time to stop asking celebrities if they are feminist or not. If they don’t do feminist work, what’s the point? It’s like asking me about Judaism or the raw food movement — I have no opinion and if you force me to come up with one I’m going to come off as an idiot. Those are not my areas of expertise. Lots of areas are not my areas of expertise.

What’s with so many interviewers asking female musicians or actresses about feminism? Why not just ask a feminist? The vast majority of the time they have no real answer, don’t seem to understand the meaning of the word, and then end up being pushed into controversy because they made some stupid/offensive statement about not being feminist because they “love men” (à la Lady Gaga). If the purpose of these interviews is to convince me that celebrities are just not all that smart, then fine. I believe you. But if not, I don’t know, maybe we need to stop asking them to form opinions on political movements when they really don’t have any.

In an interview published at Spin today, Kelis was asked: “Songs like ‘Milkshake,’ ‘Trick Me,” and ‘Bossy’ made you this empowered female figure to a generation for women. Would you consider yourself a feminist?”

First of all, what?? In what universe was “Milkshake” empowering for a generation of women?

My milkshake brings all the boys to the yard/And they’re like/It’s better than yours/Damn right it’s better than yours/I can teach you/But I have to charge.

First of all, that song was annoying as hell. Second, teaching women that their sexuality is a commodity is not empowering.

Kelis reponds to the interviewer by saying:

I’ve always shied away from the word “feminism,” only because I think to truly be feminist I think it’s a word that’s unnecessary. I don’t have to stamp it on my forehead or pass out T-shirts to prove that I’m happy to be a woman, or that I feel like I deserve equal rights.

For my generation and for your generation, I’m not negating the fight that women made before us. It’s the same thing as when you talk about civil rights. Well, are things perfect right now? Hell no. Is there still racism in a lot of the world? Absolutely. But the same fight is the fight of change. I don’t feel the need to walk around with a rifle. It’s just not beneficial; it doesn’t make any sense. And for me, I feel like that puts us as women back. I’m in no way, shape, or form ignoring the fact that these things were astronomical in our world and they were necessary because people were smart, and brave, and powerful. But in this year, right now — yeah, do we get paid less than guys do? Sure. Is it equal? No. Should it be? Absolutely.

I’m not here to dis Kelis. All I’m saying is that it’s clear she doesn’t really get why feminism exists or what it is, so why lob the question her way? In fact, it seems like she’s got a fairly conservative view of the roles men and women should play in this world.

So am I a feminist? I don’t know. Call it what you want. I am extraordinarily happy to be a woman. I would not change it for the world. I think men should run the world because if not there would be no balance. Men cannot have children, they will never know what that feels like. To actually have life — to give birth and life to someone. If we ran the entire world also, we would annihilate. There would be no balance whatsoever. So I’m fine with that. If men want to run the world, great. Congratulations. If that makes you feel equal to those that can actually create life. But I don’t care. There are so many more important things to think about. I feel like people are constantly complaining about injustice. And like I said, it’s different than when we had to fight to vote, okay? But right now, if you want to be a successful woman, are there going to be challenges? Yeah. But so what? It’s possible, it’s possible. You know. Be a woman and make it happen. Just do what you have to do. I feel like all my friends, my sisters, my mom, my aunts and all the people who I value, they’re brilliant. And are they aware of the fact that things might be a little skewed? Yeah. But it doesn’t make them any less awesome or capable. All these titles are just so useless.

A lot of people learn that men and women should have different roles in this world in order to create “balance” and, therefore, end up with this idea that feminism is not only “anti-man” but “anti-woman” because it’s “against” femininity (or masculinity). If you think that masculine and feminine gender roles are not only innate but good, then you’re likely to see critiques of those gender roles as attacking actual males and females, rather than attacking those socialized roles and behaviours, as well as the hierarchy that is attached to said roles. This leads women to say things like “No, I’m not a feminist, I love being a woman,” because they believe their womanhood is attached to a subordinate gender role which they have been told is not only natural, but empowering.

It seems to me that asking celebrities to talk about feminism only contributes to the mass confusion around what feminism actually is (Is it about feeling “empowered?” Is it about hating men? Is it about equality? Is it about being a lesbian? Is it about labels? Is it about being angry all the time?) and causes controversy as people feel disappointed when their idols turn out to be not all that smart or progressive.

Taylor Swift responded to the question “Do you consider yourself a feminist?” by saying “I don’t really think about things as guys versus girls.” Bjork took the old I’m more into positivity than negativity route, reinforcing the notion that fighting patriarchy is just about a bunch of angry, whiny women who hate everything (and should just think positive!). Geri Halliwell bought into the idea that “feminism is bra-burning lesbianism” and therefore “very unglamorous,” suggesting a “rebrand” that celebrates “femininity and softness.” Famous burlesque dancer, Dita Von Teese just seems totally and completely confused, saying: “It’s not a word I don’t really like to address, you know? It’s not even that I want to call myself that. I just sort of go, ‘Oooooh!’ It’s an eyeball roller. (laughs) You know what I mean? It’s like, oh man, it’s a weird question. The word “feminist” is so broad.” … Come again?

This list could go on, but you get the picture. The question seems worthwhile if the goal is to educate, but that doesn’t seem to be the point when these stereotypical, anti-feminist, or nonsensical answers are just left hanging out there. Who cares what celebrities think about feminism? They didn’t become pop stars because of their deep commitment to social justice (though if they happen to be both a celebrity and committed to social justice, great). If I want to learn about feminism, I’ll go ask a feminist. Just like if I want to learn about veganism or climate change or physics, I’ll go ask an expert, not some rando on the street and certainly not some twenty-something pop star.

Meghan Murphy

Meghan Murphy

Meghan Murphy, founder and editor of Feminist Current, is a freelance writer and journalist. She completed a Masters degree in the department of Gender, Sexuality and Women’s Studies at Simon Fraser University in 2012 and lives in Vancouver, B.C. with her dog. Follow her @meghanemurphy

  • Morgan

    There’s an expectation on women to be some version of a feminist, I think, just because they are women (in an ideal world, all women would realize being serious about it was beneficial to them; in this world I don’t think it’s fair to expect women to be feminist because there’s so much ignorance/misinformation surrounding it), and yet I also think the question is asked because it will elicit a confusing/stupid response that reflects nothing about actual feminism. Keep the conversation around feminism superficial, and get women to distance themselves from it.

    I wish celebrities would have enough decency to admit their own ignorance on a subject rather than ramble on about nonsense. And being a woman =/= understanding feminism.

    • Meghan Murphy

      Yeah part of the problem is that celebrities tend to think they are more intelligent/interesting than they actually are and should maybe just admit that they have no opinion when they don’t have an informed one instead of just spewing embarrassing drivel.

      • amongster

        reading comments online i get the feeling that it is a common phenomenon that people think they are more intelligent and important than they actually are. everyone has an opinion on everything – especially on topics like feminism – and it must be stated no matter how uneducated such opinions are. in fact it seems like today it is a bad thing to talk about facts or theories. if you do you are simply an elitist know-it-all and any serious discussion is an annyoance.

        of course it’s even worse if celebrities talk shit since they get to spread their nonsense more easily and people actually listen to them – or at least can’t avoid hearing them. this personality cult is terrible.

        i’d love if celebrities (or people in general) admitted their own ignorance and mad it clear that their is no shame in not knowing something but rather in pretending to know. but i guess that’s the problem, right now it’s better to pretend.

  • Derrington

    What i think the point of the question is is to get ignorant people to say ignorant things to further degrade and declaw the movement. Does kelis talk with disdain about the civil rights movement? Or admit her priviledge as a rich person. Id have less suspicion if these questions were followed by an explanation of feminism or why its currently fighting sexism in media etc, but the fact they just leave the verbal shit on the page is interesting to me as what the editors political reason for doing that is or commissioning such a piece is. I think we should call out kelis on why she thinks rape, dv and child abuse victims get such a raw deal in the justice system and how shed restore balance to their lives …?

  • Lydia

    To me, they come across as talking in circles so as to avoid alienating their male/non-feminist fan base. This makes me a little grateful to have the liberal feminists around in a convoluted kind of way. I mean, I initially embraced feminism due to their “positive,” patriarchy-approved rebranding efforts, which I think is true for a lot of feminists these days. Although my more radical epiphany followed not too long after…I wonder what made me see the light.
    At any rate, I would like to second your motion to stop asking celebrities about feminism. In fact, let’s just stop asking them questions concerning anything other than their line of work, period. They’re all downright boring.

    • https://www.facebook.com/vicki.wharton.71 Vicki Wharton

      I’m not sure these who needs feminism doesn’t leave alot of females thinking that DV and rape have nothing to do with male supremacy though. Some of feminisms largest battles are still being fought, but with tiny groups of fighters isolated from any real strength in numbers support due to the media’s almost demonic portrait of feminists as man hating, baby eating terrorists who just want to bring down the whole American/UK dream … the fact that it was them, not us that fought to keep raping wives legal, to have half the population without a vote, to not give child rape victims a voice amongst other heinious crimes is what we need to be asking celebrities. If we asked them where they stood on the above items, think we could out them all as feminists … who would admit to being in support of the above nowadays but those were feminist campaigns, that male headed organisations like the police and porn, fought for the right of rapists, not against them.

      • Meghan Murphy

        There’s also the fact that many people who are afraid of the word “feminism” and worried they will be kicked out of the boys club/popular club if they utter it, also will acknowledge that rape and domestic violence happen but refuse to acknowledge that it has anything to do with gender/gender inequality/systemic oppression.

    • Cleo

      Agree – these pop stars have bought into the attempts by some to portray a “feminist” as an angry, frumpy, un-sexy woman. They are terrified to be lumped into that category.

  • lizor

    “If you think that masculine and feminine gender roles are not only innate but good, then you’re likely to see critiques of those gender roles as attacking actual males and females, rather than attacking those socialized roles and behaviours, as well as the hierarchy that is attached to said roles. This leads women to say things like “No, I’m not a feminist, I love being a woman,” because they believe their womanhood is attached to a subordinate gender role which they have been told is not only natural, but empowering.”

    That’s a wonderful, clarifying insight. Thank you.

    Celebrities are constantly surrounded with sycophants hanging on to their every word and movement. There is little, if any, honest feedback or critique in their life experience (once they are rich/famous). They are paid an obscene amount of money for their time. It is completely insane that such a person should be asked for comment on social inequality of any sort, particularly if the asker expects anything more than the most superficial and common tropes re: any particular type of oppression. Kelis (whoever that is) lets us know that there is “still racism in a lot of the world”, implying that racism exists ELSEWHERE as per the absurd tropes of “post-racial America”.

    Since the social movements of the twentieth century, the IDEA of social activism is perceived as being cool and therefore you get a pile on of privileged people who like the appearance of being social engaged (like being a supposed “empowered female figure to a generation for women”) without having to make a single personal sacrifice for it or even to give the question of what the pop confection you produce might convey in terms of ideology some serious thought. It is also difficult to know how conscious the undermining of feminism is on behalf of media people who do pose these questions and publish their idiotic responses.

    Whatever the motive of bobble-head pop stars and the media that worship them might be, I agree: please, PLEASE, for the love of Christ, stop asking hyper-privileged people about oppression!

    • Meghan Murphy

      Yes, exactly. And I agree that she came off sounding as though she felt racism was no longer REALLY a REAL problem. Not one worth getting angry about and fighting back against, anyway.

  • http://dothedead.wordpress.com The Real Cie

    “I think men should run the world because if not there would be no balance.”
    I have no words. Or at least none that I can type, because my eyes have rolled all the way back in my head and my hands are beating against my forehead to trying to reboot my brain after reading this utterly nonsensical statement.

  • SaraClue

    Most celebrities don’t want to be controversial, the entertainment industry is heavily male-dominated and very racist and sexist. Entertainers’ careers are extremely precarious, there are numerous examples of actresses and singers who were blacklisted and had their careers destroyed for trying to stand up to powerful men. Of course these young women go on and on about how they love men and aren’t nasty ol’ boner-kiling feminists, that is how they get to the top in the first place. Who knows if they believe any of this drivel? It also has the added side benefit of shaming and silencing women in the audience. “See? SHE likes it! SHE’S successful and happy without that women’s rights bullshit!”

    • Meghan Murphy

      Totally. Stop your whining! Relax and enjoy your oppression like that lady! (Who also happens to be rich and successful — WHO needs feminism!)

  • https://plus.google.com/103857844974912781491 Codi Johnson

    Personally, I would be in favor of not asking celebrities anything. They should maybe have a press conference when they have something specific to say on a subject, but interviewers going after interviews where they spring questions on them? So that doting fans can read or hear what their _____ is? No thanks.

  • http://revolucionesfeministas.wordpress.com mll69

    My thoughts… I was wondering if this whole thing about asking celebs about feminism or pushing the feminist label on to them was started by Ms. magazine when it declared Beyonce to be a feminist and it went downhill from there.
    Also, the other day I was at the gym and a video of Lady Gaga came up, and then another one by Beyonce and I thought that although we usually think that singers, artists are subversive (because of their art, you know) most of them are fairly conservative people. There are in it for the money, they, like U2’s Bono recognized the other day, are fervent capitalists. Even artists like Bjork, even Madonna. And it’s amazing to see how the word “feminism” still horrifies them. It’s like the ultimate frontier or something. (Looking at the Lady Gaga video I also thought that it was horrible that she did a song with R. Kelly and wondered if all her support to the LGBT community is just a marketing plot.)

    • Meghan Murphy

      Totally. Honestly anyone who is that rich and famous did not get to be that rich and famous accidentally, which should tell us that they aren’t particularly subversive or progressive.

    • Morgan

      I was so disappointed over that song she did with R. Kelly.

  • http://www.raosyth.com Pat

    There seem to be so many competing definitions of feminism that an intelligent answer to the question is impossible.

    That said, there’s far too much of the ‘if you believe women are people you’re a feminist’ tripe out there for me to get cross at a celebrity who feels she must come up with some positive answer to the question, but that it need not contain any thought.

    I would really respect a celebrity who answered, “If you can’t tell, I guess I’m not,” and then called for the next question.

  • Lo

    The problem is that celebrities, especially women, are most known for having “a great body, being hot, sexy, etc”, they don’t have other choices than to be objectified through pictures by the ones like Terry Richardson (the last one was Mariah Carey), or other misogynists (some can be women).

    Only a few women didn’t need that (and still I’ve no examples in mind right now).

    So when journalists ask them, if they are “feminist”, the meaning of it is clearly “can objectification be called feminist?”, and I’m sure they all want to hear a big “Yes” as an answer. The meaning of this would be that there is nothing misogynists/degrading about objectification.

    It kinda shows how much patriarchy is trying to banalize/justify the degradation of women through the manipulation of feminism and women who are NOT feminist.

    But as we can see, many of those women are confused, they don’t really get what it means to be feminist or maybe they just don’t know how to explain the propaganda against women in the whole industry (music, movies, journalism, etc), that’s why they act as if they don’t know what feminism really means and make it sound as a bad thing?

    Anyway, IMO it is just a matter of time before all female celebrities start talking about empowerment/agentivity, Beyoncé is just the beginning.

    (BTW I listened to her album, and most of the sexual lyrics was just typical rough porn and Beyoncé was the only one objectified ofc, same goes with the new censored photoshoot of Rihanna where all the position are just what we saw in porn #justsayin’).

    Libfems and their crazy/contradictaries theories is a real problem, which gets bigger and bigger everyday.

    • Lady L

      It’s clear that the majority opinion around here is that nudity, raunch, immodesty, & overt sexuality are objectifying & degrading and never sexually liberating or empowering for any woman- agency, lived experience and rights be damned- and that liberal feminists and women who disagree are blind little slaves of the patriarchy, inferior to the all-knowing radical feminists.

      (But when guys like Adam Levine, Channing Tatum, James Franco, Justin Bieber, & Zac Efron strip & get sexual, there’s nothing wrong with it.)

      But why do radical feminists seem to forget about modesty as a patriarchal tool? They’re never disrespectful or condescending to women who choose to be modest, despite all the patriarchal repression and oppression behind it. No belittling her for her choice, accusing her of conforming to the patriarchy, or implying that her agency is irrelevant. Her choice is tolerated and accepted. So why all the condescension and disrespect toward immodest women and liberal feminists?

      The problem is not liberal feminists. The problem (and it’s not the only one) is respectability politics. It’s people who make feminism into a movement about policing consensual, abuse-free sexual choices and physical appearance choices, and anyone who tries to make the movement a high-school clique where there’s a hierarchy among women based on physical appearance and sexuality, that involves some women being accepted and others ridiculed, excluded, talked down to, and verbally dehumanized. This is what happens when any marginalized group of people start promoting respectability politics amongst each other.

      • Meghan Murphy

        “It’s clear that the majority opinion around here is that nudity, raunch, immodesty, & overt sexuality are objectifying & degrading and never sexually liberating or empowering for any woman- agency, lived experience and rights be damned- and that liberal feminists and women who disagree are blind little slaves of the patriarchy, inferior to the all-knowing radical feminists.”

        What on earth are you talking about? That is not either “clear” or true.

        • http://twitter.com/paleotrees joy

          Also, who says we think dudes getting “sexy” is okay?

          Personally, I think those dudes are all gross. Their actions are gross, their senses of entitlement are gross. When a woman plays to the dominant social ideas of “woman” and/or maligns feminism, that’s not openly repulsive, it’s just extremely unfortunate (and politically relevant, since so many people seem to take those social ideas seriously).

        • jo

          Lady L is simply informing us that we’re all prudes who are against nudity. But only female nudity because we’re jealous haters! Thanks, lady! Remember, feminism is about women’s personal empowering choices.

      • Lydia

        Ok, I’ll bite:

        First, show me an instance of female nudity portrayed in a way that is not degrading to women, and I’ll present you with a millions outraged men ranting about how it’s unnecessary and offensive to their eyes, and demanding that “shit like that” be removed from public sight. (Hello, Lena Dunham as Hannah Horvath on HBO’s Girls. Did anyone ever even talk about anything else?)

        Second, just because a handful of men are stripping down to their skivvies in an overt show of sexual prowess, that means diddly squat, because men as a class do not experience RAPE, MURDER, AND OTHER FORMS OF VIOLENCE on a daily basis by virtue of their manhood. So when a male celeb brandishes his rock hard bod in some magazine spread, neither his humanity nor the humanity of men as a whole is ever once threatened. Men are allowed to come in different shapes and sizes since they’re recognized for more than their bodies. They’re careers will certainly outlast their muscle tone and wrinkle free skin. Women, on the other hand, are limited to a small number of roles and positions in Hollywood depending on their level of fuckability. Even Mariah Carey is forced to compete with women half her age for the male gaze in an effort to remain relevant. That’s because under the patriarchy, if you don’t have a penis, you better at least have a body that makes the penis happy. Otherwise you’re invisible, and nobody wants to be invisible. This is like Feminism 101, a concept that even so-called libfems have come to accept.

        Which brings me to my third point: the libfem movement really revovles around expanding the definition of patriarchy-endorsed sexiness. It’s still all very much What About The Men (and their orgasms) even if it means silencing women who have been harmed by men (and their orgasms). Truly the same old misogyny coated in that empowerment kool-aid that every woman can swallow and enjoy.

        As a radical feminist, I’m here to tell you that I don’t give a fuck about men. I don’t care what they get off on or what makes them happy. There’s a whole planet full of people who already live to do that. I’m here to stand by my fellow women, feminist or not, and reassert our humanity anytime an act of casual or overt sexism transpires. And you can bet your sweet behind that I’ll remain critical of the ridiculous things women are expected to do for the sake of capitulating to our (woman-hating, male-supremacist) society’s often harmful standards. So don’t go comparing us to the same people who designed this world to marginalize one group of people for the benefit of another group. Conservative, I am not. I don’t buy into the madonna/whore complex and I don’t care to police women’s sexuality. If you would stop conflating porn and the mainstreaming thereof with sexuality, you would get that. Kindly go brush up on your feminism history (this blog’s archives is a great place to start). I’ve exhausted myself having to explain this stuff to the hundredth person for the hundredth time.

      • Lo

        Not nudity, not sexuality: objectification. Objectification=dehumanization=oppressed=degradation.
        And I’m sure you know that *rolleyes*

        And who are the responsible: patriarchy/men.

        Why is that when a radfem has an unbiased point of view about a context, no libfem talks about agentivity or empowerment and instead harass her for speaking the truth? 😉

        Unbiased point of view isn’t oppressing anyone, and has nothing to do with respect. Sigh.

        The problem are libfems (libertarian/liberal/etc). They don’t want liberation, and the worst is (just like you did): they only blame women instead of men. #fact

  • morag

    Yes to all of this. Frankly I don’t understand why black feminists are so quick to call Beyonce a feminist Icon. “She’s a black woman who embraces her sexuality!” Well okay, but it’s no coincidence that her “sexuality” is exactly what the partriarchy has been telling women (and although they’re not identical, white and black women’s supposed “sexuality” is from the same oppressive root) what our sexuality is forever. Feminism isn’t about finding all women “beautiful”-our liberation won’t arrive with a minority woman on the cover of Playboy. This is not to downplay the ugly history of black women’s relationship with white beauty ideals, it’s just as a radical feminist I want to destroy the sex and beauty paradigms in our society, not make it more “inclusive.”

    • http://twitter.com/paleotrees joy

      I think a lot of Black feminists think Beyonce is feminist because she’s a Black woman making money. But it isn’t enough for a woman to just make money; if it was, Oprah Winfrey would have led womanity out of chains in like the 1990s. As Meghan notes above, money does not denote progressivism any more than artistry does, since the people who control the world’s money are not inclined to let anyone get too many resources if they might truly rock the social boat.

      That aside, anyone who thinks “bow down, b**ches” = feminism is automatically circumspect.

    • http://liberalfeministtropes.blogspot.com.au/ Independent Radical

      “Frankly I don’t understand why black feminists are so quick to call Beyonce a feminist Icon.”

      I generally agree with what you’re saying but I don’t think it’s black feminists who are to blame for this nonsense, it’s liberal “feminists”. The black, liberal feminists who think Beyonce is feminist for shaking her boobs and butt all over the place, think that way because they are liberals, not because they are black (same way white, liberal feminists think Lady Gaga is feminist.) I had a white, male tutor tell me that Beyonce was feminist because of that “girls run the world” song. That’s not feminism, that’s a conspiracy theory and a dumb one at that.

      I doubt he’d be praising a song titled “Jews run the world” as an anti-racism song. A song like that would be correctly labelled as “anti-semetic Nazi propaganda” by pretty much everyone. Yet we think it’s okay to sing nonsense about how “girls run the world” because they can “devour” things with their “love” (what on earth does that mean?) and use their “sexy” bodies to deprive men of hard earned money.

      Here are the facts, in spite of all the “sexy” female bodies out there, men as a group still have more wealth than women as a group. Men make up the vast majority of the capitalist class (which includes politicians.) The capitalist class has not disappeared from existance as a result of women using their enormous boobs to put men into some sort of trance that will cause them to give up all their money. Women do not secretly run the world using their “sexiness”. To argue such a thing is as ridiculous as arguing that Jews run the world, if not more so. But whoops, I forgot, in Liberal Land songs don’t have to be true (yeah post-modernists, I’m talking about the “capital T truth”, there are truths in the world, deal with it) to be “empowering”, nor do they have to inspire actions that lead to genuine empowerment (e.g. songs that tell people to rise up against oppression). They just have to create happy, empowered feelings by any means necessary, even if the message is blatantly false and actually encourages men to hate women.

      • Lizor

        OMG – Love this comment. Especially: “The capitalist class has not disappeared from existance as a result of women using their enormous boobs to put men into some sort of trance that will cause them to give up all their money. Women do not secretly run the world using their “sexiness”.”

      • http://twitter.com/paleotrees joy

        Thank you. I’m sorry I didn’t point out the problem was with liberalism, not with Blackness (just because something’s obvious to me doesn’t mean I don’t have to spell it out).

        Though I *do* think Beyonce’s race is a major reason *white* libfems kiss her ass. Most of them suffer from a bad case of white guilt and want to seem like they’re “down with the brown [people]”, although not *too* much — you know, like so much that it freaks out their parents or keeps them from getting startup employment or makes anyone call them “ghetto.”
        In the name of spelling things out, that really pisses me off too.

    • https://plus.google.com/103857844974912781491 Codi Johnson

      Yay for SNL last night. Great sketch about someone who dared to criticize Beyonce!

      • Meghan Murphy

        Wah I missed it!

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