Abuse is not always ‘visible’ and Megan Short was punished by death for realizing this

Mark and Megan Short and their three children, Willow, Liana, and Mark. (Image: Facebook/Megan Short)
Mark and Megan Short and their three children, Willow, Liana, and Mark. (Image: Facebook/Megan Short)

Last week, Megan Short, 33, posted a request to Facebook, asking for help moving on August 6. Only weeks earlier, she had commented under an article posted by a friend, saying she was leaving her husband. The article, written by Leigh Stein, was titled, “He didn’t hit me. It was still abuse.” In it, Stein explained that, while working at a diner, her boyfriend made her shower twice a day, so she “wouldn’t smell like French fries after work” and so that she could shave her entire body, “or else he wouldn’t touch me.” He also told Stein she “wasn’t sexy” and that, therefore, he needed to sleep with other women. Stein didn’t see her relationship as abusive, at the time, because her abuse was invisible — there were no bruises to prove it. “I didn’t know what to name what I couldn’t see,” she writes.

Like so many other women, Stein had learned that red flags were, in fact, “romance.” She writes, “I felt like I was in a movie — how quickly we moved in together and isolated ourselves from friends and family, because all we needed was each other.” Women are groomed to become victims of abuse, in this way. We watch movies that send the message that stalking, jealousy, and force are romantic — signs of “passion,” not control. The fact that we don’t recognize psychological abuse for what it is, and only accept “abuse” that looks like physical battery, doesn’t help — women are tricked into complacency, and learn not to trust themselves. They are unable to “prove” to themselves or to others that something is very wrong, often until it’s too late.

Stein writes:

“Today when I tell someone my story, whether a stranger or a friend who didn’t know me in my early 20s, I always get the same question: ‘Was he physical?’ I wonder if they are imagining what my face would look like black and blue. I know they are asking for proof that my relationship was, by popular definition, abusive, and then they want to know why I stayed. The truth is that the few times he was physical with me were tiny blips on a long timeline of subtle manipulation, public humiliation, controlling behavior, and gaslighting.”

Stein’s story is similar to my own, in that way — the trauma of my own abusive relationship has little to do with the physical attacks, which never left me with any serious injury and were few and far between. The trauma was in the mind-fuckery — the constant verbal abuse, the manipulations, the humiliation, the isolation, and the carefully crafted lies. This, too, was what made it hard to leave and hard to recover from. I saw a therapist for years afterwards, who told me she feared that if I had stayed I would not have made it out alive.

Megan Short didn’t.

On July 23rd, Short, who had met her husband, Mark, seven years her senior, at only 17-years-old, commented under Stein’s article, posted by her neighbour, Angie Burke: “It really does a number on your mental health for sure… This is why I am leaving my marriage Angie. 16 years.”

On August 6, Short’s planned moving day, she was found shot to death alongside her three children, her husband, and their dog in the family’s Pennsylvania home. A “murder/suicide note” was found “near one of the deceased adults,” according to the Berks County District Attorney Office.

 

As is often the case, things looked well and good between the couple to outsiders. The Reading Eagle reports:

“On Facebook, Mark and Megan shared dozens of photos of their children with friends and family. Mark’s cover photo is a side-by-side with his wife.

‘She’s still the most beautiful girl that I’ve ever met,’ Mark wrote in a comment on the picture. ‘I’m the luckiest guy in the world to have her as my wife and the mother of my three amazing children!'”

Abusive men will often cultivate an appearance of a happy couple, fully in love, while behaving in entirely opposite ways at home. This kind of behaviour is commonly described as a “Jekyll and Hyde” personality, as there is a distinct and irrational switch from one extreme to another — oftentimes based on a “public” persona and a “private” one — as though women are dealing with two different men.

Stein explains:

“The World Health Organization recognizes four types of intimate-partner violence: physical, sexual, emotional or psychological, and controlling behavior. These often coexist, and verbal aggression early in a relationship frequently precedes violence. Some studies have shown that abuse in the form of degradation, fear and humiliation is more psychologically debilitating in the long term than physical violence; psychological abuse can in fact sustain the relationship, as the victim becomes consumed with self-doubt, depression and low self-esteem.”

One of the most frightening consequences of society’s limited understanding of abuse is exhibited in Short’s fate. Controlling, abusive men may not leave bruises the world can see, but are no less dangerous than the ones who do. We know that 75 per cent of women who are killed by their partners are murdered when they try to leave or after they have already left. Mark’s victim, like so many women, was punished for naming the problem and for trying to wrest herself of her husband’s grasp. (In fact, Heavy reports that Megan had temporarily left Mark for another woman.)

In the most vile news story I read about Short, two NBC reporters pushed a narrative of a “good guy” who did all he could to “keep the family together,” despite an apparently cruel wife who “planned to leave” regardless. The reporters quoted a cousin of Mark’s endlessly, who said:

“Don’t think any less of him, because he’s a really, really good guy. He would do anything for anybody… You don’t know the situation, so don’t try to judge.”

An addendum beneath the article read: “If you or someone you know is considering suicide, contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273-8255 or visit the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention.”

“Suicide” is not the problem, here. Nor is “mental health” or any other host of problems we continue to use as excuses for male violence like “love” or a “broken heart.” We need to stop glorifying the idea of “keeping the family together” and start encouraging women to trust themselves. “Families” clearly do not do any better when they remain a unit, if that unit includes an abuser.

We also need to stop defending men who aren’t overtly violent or brushing off verbal and psychological abuse. These misunderstandings and efforts to “stay positive” or “not pass judgement” isolate women and empower abusers. Our unwillingness to take “invisible” abuse seriously and understand that psychological and verbal abuse can be equally as damaging as physical abuse clearly has dire consequences.

Meghan Murphy
Meghan Murphy

Founder & Editor

Meghan Murphy is a freelance writer and journalist. She has been podcasting and writing about feminism since 2010 and has published work in numerous national and international publications, including New Statesman, Vice, Al Jazeera, The Globe and Mail, I-D, Truthdig, and more. Meghan completed a Masters degree in the department of Gender, Sexuality and Women’s Studies at Simon Fraser University in 2012 and lives in Vancouver, B.C. with her dog.

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  • Meghan Murphy

    The amount of times I’ve heard from WOMEN that they are staying with men (or think others should stay with men) ‘for the children’ is grotesque. That we’ve absorbed this message that somehow ‘keeping the family together’ despite there being an abusive, shitbag male around, is ‘better for the kids’ is so fucked.

  • northernTNT

    The grooming of mariage/motherhood must end. This is what the princessification creates, even more grooming.

  • coquelicot

    I’ve found that naming the problem is one of the most revolutionary acts a woman can perform, and, as a result, one of the most terrifying. Even reacting to the problem by removing yourself from the situation can provoke violence, as we see in Megan Short’s case. Look at the husband – your regular “good guy,” and he does this. Who are women supposed to trust? And still the apologists blame us (“she should’ve known and never gotten involved, oh well, her choice!” Don’t you know, some women are disposable?) Good guys don’t shoot their wives and children for leaving them. I was just saying a couple weeks ago that instead of killing their wives and children, men should kill themselves. Wish this dude would’ve either let go of his entitlement issues or ended his own life without involving others.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Exactly. It’s how the cycle of abuse continues. The abusive man teaches his children that abuse is ok. It’s extremely harmful.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Well, I think a central reason abuse happens and continues to happen is because society condones it. Men and society at large need to start holding men accountable for their behaviour and we need to start teaching people that this behaviour is not acceptable and does, indeed, constitute abuse. Obviously you’re right that the police can only intervene when there is physical violence, but I don’t think police intervention is our only means towards addressing abusive behaviour. Emotional and psychological abuse need to be treated as a red flag and not normalized in media and by society.

    • Alienigena

      This has always been my position. That family violence occurs because the surrounding society is OK with it. If the society had a problem with it, it would truly criminalize it (enforce laws, take complainants seriously) and sanction the worst offenders, routinely and severely. Family members could start taking people (their siblings, their children) who complain about emotionally violent spouses/parents seriously. Until these men are removed from the home and women and children allowed to stay, I don’t think women will have much security. Within families there are contending realities. Sometimes abusive people focus on one child, for example, the phenomenon of the singled out child. Sometimes the child (male) identifies with the abusive male parent and doesn’t acknowledge their abuse.

  • Meghan Murphy

    I don’t think it’s ever too soon to talk about male violence. Male violence kills. Abusive men kill. Every single day. We need to talk about that MORE, not less.

  • Dr.Z

    Statistically speaking, women are far more likely to experience depression and mental illness. If mental illness is the the problem, or even a portion of it, why aren’t women in the headlines EVERY SINGLE DAY for murdering “loved” ones and innocent men? Men are killing us everyday, we see this and suffer some kind of PTSD which gives them even more power over us. Its time to cut the abelist crap and stop sympathizing with murderers. This guys illness was male privilege but he never suffered. Women and children are the ones who suffer.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Literally all the abusive men I have encountered learned the behaviour from their fathers. This is not to say that abused children all necessarily become abusers, but I definitely think behaviour modeled by their fathers is often a factor.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Who do you think left the ‘murder/suicide note’? Megan?

  • Morag999

    “He murdered his entire family and even the dog because he could no longer control them, nothing about this man is good, but this is what is accepted by society as a good man.”

    Yes, this man was, without a doubt, what our society deems “a good man.” He was a good man right up to the point of becoming the executioner of his woman, his children, his pet.

    Our society draws the line there, at murder, but refuses to seriously consider and criticize the model of a good man, which has the potential for murder built right into it.

    Murder is immoral, it is evil; but a man owning his family — e.g., “his house,” “his wife,” “his kids,” ultimately, “his responsibilities” — is still not widely recognized, except by women’s liberationists, as an immoral system in itself: male responsibility, male control, male supremacy.

    Only this model’s excesses, only the “good” man’s extremes, such as rape, child sexual abuse, physical battery and murder, are considered evil. Hardly ever the root of the problem, which is not mental illness (though mental illness can play a strong role in violent conclusions) but the patriarchal family and its sex-roles and supporting institutions.

  • Meghan Murphy

    We’ve seen enough of these cases and enough evidence to know exactly what’s going on.

    • Grizz2

      Really sherlock? Like I’ve already said. To assume before the facts are released is ignorant.

      • Meghan Murphy

        The… facts… are… released….

  • TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsYoya

    Well look at you, saying just because the sun rose in the east since the earth’s beginning doesn’t mean it won’t rise in the west tomorrow. Hey, we don’t know! What is true? Anything is possible!

    • Grizz2

      That’s exactly what I said…

      • Meghan Murphy

        Sarcasm, dear.

      • JustASC

        How you did not get the sarcasm in a comment that says “just because the sun rose in the east since the earth’s beginning doesn’t mean it won’t rise in the west tomorrow”, like, my brain is melting.

  • calabasa

    This sounds like my ex-bf… he thought of himself as nonviolent (no, seriously; he got upset when he rushed at me once and I stepped back, yelling “like I’m VIOLENT? I’m VIOLENT?”

    Somehow, he thought he was not violent. How many other people think emotional/sexual abuse are normal in a relationship? I count myself lucky I caught on to what was happening as soon as I did; if I stayed–or continued going back to him–who knows what he would have done to me, or how much his violence would have escalated. He still doesn’t think he was “violent” because he didn’t actually hit me or commit any violence against me in a non-psychological or non-sexual context (i.e., he never just punched me in the face for no reason).

    I had no bruises either. At least I had resources (free therapy for victims of sexual violence). Would a woman who is a victim of a controlling, psychologically abusive man have the same access to resources? (Although, except by friends and family, I am still not believed…sexual violence within a relationship is still not taken seriously; the idea of “it’s not rape if you’re together” or have been together is still surprisingly common).

    Here is what he did (and also, my reaction), in asterisks, from http://www.bandbacktogether.com/intimate-partner-rape-resources/

    In the past, sexual assault was thought to be assault by a stranger upon an unsuspecting victim. As we’ve learned more about sexual assault and rape, it’s become clear that much sexual assault occurs between two people who do, in fact, know one another.

    Intimate Partner Rape (also called Intimate Partner Sexual Violence (IPSV) or Marital Rape) is a rape or sexual assault that occurs between two people who currently have – or have had – a consensual sexual relationship. Intimate Partner Rape may occur in relationships that have an existing pattern of domestic violence.

    Intimate Partner Rape can occur in ANY type of partnership – dating relationships, marriages, and gay or lesbian relationships.

    Most states now recognize that rape within a marriage or long-term intimate relationship is illegal and can be prosecuted.

    Rape Versus Sexual Assault:

    While state laws may vary, the generally accepted definitions of rape and sexual assault are as follows:

    *Rape* – Forcible penetration of the vagina or anus with finger, penis, or object. Rape is also forced oral contact upon genitals.

    *Sexual Assault* – Any unwanted sexual touching, such as forced kissing, handling of breasts or vagina, forcing one partner to fondle the other’s genitals, or forcing one to watch pornography.

    Rape and sexual assault may be used interchangeably.

    Forms of Intimate Partner Rape and Sexual Assault:

    It is important to realize that one does not have to have physically fought off or said “no” for an act to be regarded as sexual assault. Tears or other expressions of discomfort are reasonable indicators that sexual activity is not desired.

    Sexually violent partners often do not seek consent, or if one does say no, it does not stop the sexual activity. Emotional abuse and manipulation are often used in conjunction with sexual assault and rape.

    Submission is never the same as consent. The following methods may be used to manipulate or abuse a partner:

    Threats toward the partner, their property, or someone else

    *Using guilt to engage in sexual relations*

    *Sexual activity after continuous pressure to engage in sex before you’re ready*

    *Pressure to perform acts which make a person uncomfortable*

    *Physical violence*

    *Continued sexual activity after it’s indicated that sexual activity is no longer welcome (even if consent was given initially)*

    *Overpowering with physical force*

    Deprivation of liberty until demands of a sexual activity are met

    *Sexual intercourse while asleep or incapacitated*

    *Denying reproductive choice to partner*

    Filming or photographing sexual acts without consent

    *Using sexually degrading names*

    *Making degrading comments about sexual performance (“you’re shitty in bed”) or body (“you’re a fatass”) alone or in front of others*

    *Controlling choice of clothes*

    *Implying that a past rape was not rape* or that “you liked it”
    What are Some Common Reactions to Intimate Partner Rape?

    Any rape or sexual assault may lead to a variety of reactions – some immediate, others longer-term. These reactions depend upon many things, including past experiences, type of force used, relationship of offender to the victim, and age of the victim. Here are some common ways that victims handle intimate partner rape:

    *Rationalization – “It was just that once.” “It’s my fault.” “I led him on.”*

    *Minimizing – “Hey, at least he didn’t beat me.” “It’s not so bad.”*

    *Dissociation – “I don’t have any feelings about this.” “I can’t think about it.” “I won’t think about it.”*

    *Denial – “That didn’t happen.” “Rape happens with strangers, not partners.” “He would never hurt me.”*

    *Focus upon the good – “Think of all the GOOD things we have.” “She/he really IS a good person,” which means the victim is the bad one.*

    *Self-soothing behaviors – watching television, showers, smoking, self-medicating with drugs or alcohol.*

    *Submitting to additional sexual assaults to avoid a repeat of the rape.*

    *Strong sense of betrayal and shock that someone they loved could sexually assault them.*

    *Humiliation and a feeling of being “dirty.”*

    *Anger and Guilt – if they’d been better partners, the rape wouldn’t have occurred.*

    *Inability to trust another intimate partner or feel comfortable being intimate again.*

    *Post-traumatic stress disorder*

    Because victims of intimate partner rape usually have homes and children with the attacker, they are often unlikely to report rape and other forms of abuse. This means a victim of Intimate Partner Rape has likely been raped repeatedly.

    Those who have experienced Intimate Partner Rape may experience more shame and self-loathing for being in – or remaining in – an abusive relationship.

    As the rapist is someone the victim had chosen to be intimate with, the victim may begin to question who he or she may trust.

    Types of Partner Rape:

    There’s been a common belief that rape is about sex. It’s not. Rape, especially partner rape, is about power, violence, and control.

    Anger Rape – this type of rape is particularly violent and performed in retaliation, as punishment if a man believes his partner deserves it. This especially occurs in response to her leaving, flirting with someone else, or showing him up.

    Sadistic Rape – Anger rape is performed to punish a woman, but sadistic rape is performed when the attacker enjoys causing pain or humiliating his partner. This may involve cutting, biting, burning, or urinating on his victim to humiliate her.

    Power Rape – this type of rape is a clear demonstration of “who the boss” is. Abusive partners often want sex after beating their partners, and this type of rape forces a woman to forget the fight and make up. This rape may not be violent, but it may instead involve force. This type of rape occurs when a woman is bullied into sex or intimidated into giving in to keep the peace.

    *Obsessive Rape – any type of rape by a partner who insists upon performing repeated bizarre or fetish-like sex. This may involve repeated oral or anal rape.*

    Why do People Stay After They’ve Been Raped by Their Partner?

    There are many reasons that people stay with an abusive partner. What you decide to do is ultimately up to you, and you don’t owe it to anybody to explain your motivations. If you stay, you should have the same amount of love and support as ANY other sexual assault victim.

    What follows are some common reasons that people stay in an abusive relationship:

    *Belief that the sexual assault was their fault*

    Unable to call what happened “rape,” as it occurred within a partnership

    Frightened by the implications of reporting the rape

    *Genuine love for the partner*

    Traditional views on marriage and responsibility

    Fear that if he or she leaves, he or she will be killed

    Have been threatened by loss of children

    *Threats of suicide*

    Financial dependence

    Nowhere else to go

    *Great partner in other ways*

    *Has been abused as a child and sees abuse as normal*

    Religious reasons
    If your partner is physically violent, please see the steps below should you decide to leave. Abusers do tend to escalate their abuse, and there is no assurance that you’ll avoid further harm by staying.

    Help for Domestic Abuse Victims:

    Because this is domestic abuse.

    Ladies, your “pushy” boyfriend is not just pushy. He is an abuser. Get out. Now.

    This is a guy who wanted me to have his children within three weeks of meeting (“like a movie;” fortunately, I have always questioned this Hollywood princess fairy tale love bullshit, and this wasn’t romantic to me, it scared me). He also wanted us to move in together right away. When, instead of that happening, we broke up, he raped me.

    I have no doubt that if I’d fallen for his line of bullshit and had kids with this guy I could have ended up dead the day I decided to leave.

    RIP, Megan Short. I think this is the nexus of porn culture ownership of women as sex objects meets traditional marriage-based ownership of women as sex, love and slave objects (in my case and the case of many others: men expect women to do whatever they want, sexually and otherwise, to show how they ‘belong’ to them). I am sorry you fell for this bullshit, Megan, and when you started to wake up you were killed for it. The heterosexual institution of marriage (and quite often just the heterosexual relationship) is as poisoned as liberal male-centric “sex-positive” culture (and there is an overlap, as Sheila Jeffreys wrote about in “the idea of prostitution;” all the “sexual revolution” did was train housewives to act like prostituted women).

    Fuck men, seriously. Fuck them.

    • Wren

      AWESOME POST!!

  • Wren

    I agree. In fact, Lundy Bancroft says exactly the same thing. It has more to do with a man feeling entitled, and that often is the result of someone being spoiled and indulged, not abused.

  • melissa

    Who are you kidding? Even with women being more likely to have mental illnesses, suffer from depression .anxiety, more likely self harm, attempt suicides( But often succeed less due to the different kinds if chosen methods like poisoning as opposed to guns typically used by men.Easier to pump a stomach than to reconstruct a brain) its still predominately men doing this.74 percent of all murder-suicides involved an intimate partner, of those , 96 % were women killed by their intimate partners.98% mass shooters are also male. Mentally ill people are actually more likely to fall victim to violence than commit it. This is a male problem. Women are not ruining or taking lives anywhere near the same rate, mentally ill or not.

  • Meghan Murphy

    I’m not arguing against intervention in these cases. My point is that there needs to be a cultural shift.

  • Cassandra

    But “mental health” is in fact *not* the underlying issue. Socially sanctioned male violence against women is not mental illness. Plenty of mentally well people resort to destruction. War. Capitalism. Exploitation. Prostitution. Pornography. Those are all very violent things and plenty of non mentally ill people (the vast majority of them male) engage in them every day. It is not mental illness. It is patriarchy. It is misogyny. It is male supremacy. Bad people aren’t usually mentally ill and mentally ill people are even less frequently “bad.”

    • therealcie

      People with mental illness tend to be victims rather than victimizers. A lot of us also fall prey to abusive partners because many of us have low self esteem from always being told how “wrong” we are. All of the relationships I was in before my current partner were abusive, usually psychologically but sometimes physically as well. I always thought that I brought the abuse on myself, and more than one of my previous partners told me that I did.
      My current partner is very gentle. I never thought I would find or that I deserved someone like him. The abusive partners keep vulnerable people in bad relationships by constantly reinforcing how “lucky” we are to have them.

  • Morag999

    I found his obituary, but nothing about “predeceased.” Do you have a link?

  • shy virago

    I’m so TIRED of this – one more woman murdered by a man who claimed to love her!
    The murders of women by men are the invisible murders in this country and according to statistics they are at least four a day – but these may be low.

    These are the murders we don’t talk about – no one films them or even witnesses them, like they do when cops kill men and women of color. We have to start talking about them. The majority of men who murder women are not strangers or that ‘guy hiding in the bushes’. They are husbands, partners, boyfriends, and ex husbands/partners/boyfriends.

    Until men stop murdering and abusing, we need to stop defending men.
    Period.

  • Cassandra

    If more people talked about male violence and faced it head on and acted on it and punished it, these things would happen far less frequently. Articles like this are crucial in helping women, even if it’s just one woman, see what’s going on and understand what male supremacy, domination, violence do — they kill.

    • Just Me

      Don’t you mean that articles like these are crucial in helping women AND children since children where victims here too?

      • Meghan Murphy

        I assume she means because this kind of discourse helps empower women and better understand abuse and red flags. Let’s not look for spats where there aren’t any?

  • Meghan Murphy

    omg. Like, do you actually think the non-abusive wife shot up her whole fucking family??? Be serious and stop wasting everyone’s time.

    • therealcie

      Obtuse troll is deliberately obtuse.

      • Grizz2

        Oh look at you using big words, yet you don’t understand objectivity.

        • Meghan Murphy

          Does objectivity mean “lying to oneself”?

        • Cassandra

          Which word is “big?” “Deliberately” or “obtuse?” I’d bet it’s “deliberately” because long words are a real chore to write in crayon.

  • therealcie

    “You don’t know the situation so don’t try to judge.”
    He murdered his wife, children and pet.
    Yeah–I’m judging.
    Good guys don’t do that.
    Duh.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Well yes, I can relate… I’m afraid I can’t think of any easy answers here, though… I don’t imagine the police would be able to intervene unless there was a threat or a noise complaint (from the verbal abuse)… I think the best thing to do is not to pretend the behaviour is ok, when our friends talk to us about it, and suggest they contact a transition house or feminist counselor to discuss things… I think it’s also important that there is lots of education about this — the fact that abuse is not limited to literal punches — and push back against media misrepresentations.

  • northernTNT

    Putting Disney out of business is one of many things I’d LOVE to see.

  • Just Me

    Carol, here is the thing though. If this guy only took his own life, and no one else’s, then suicide would infact be the issue here. If this guy’s actions had only affected him, then we could talk about suicide. But he killed his entire family before taking his own life. He murdered three small kids, his wife, and their dog. So concluding a piece with a number about suicide prevention and help, is kind of a slap in the face to the four people and dog he murdered. Instead of the suicide prevention number, why was there not a number about helping people in abusive situations instead? This was an action of murder. When an individual takes their family down with them, suicide is actually not the problem. Murder is.

    While I agree in other circumstances, that men have a hard time admitting when they need emotional/mental help, and we need to be supportive of them getting help, being a threat to yourself is different than being a threat to your family. There are men out there who take their own lives, and don’t take the lives of their family. Those men most certainly needed help, support, therapy and a better way to deal with their emotional and mental issues where they didn’t feel like their last resort was suicide. But this guy? He murdered his family.

  • Just Me

    I agree with the article and addressing this issue. Especially how Meghan addressed the dialogue that happens in the news that grooms us to accept this kind of violence. But I feel torn about issues around consent to post pictures gleaned from sources where consent wasn’t given. Especially when it comes to minors and plastering these childrens’ faces all over the internet. I wish their faces had been blacked out, out of respect for the children’s privacy as minors.

  • Adria’s Jam Page

    this is a good article but I don’t like how you blame men for this. Women do this A LOT to men and husbands!!! Way more then probably men do to wives!

    • Meghan Murphy

      That is definitely and statistically not true…

    • Naomi Hatfield Bigwood

      “Men fear that women will laugh at them, Women fear that men will kill them.” ~ Margaret Atwood

    • Cassandra

      What are you smoking?

    • Mamma bear Australia

      You’re kidding right Adria? Maybe you should look at some stats first love. Yes both men and women commit domestic and family violence. However, the statistics show clearly that men far outweigh women as perpetrators and not only that but more often the not, when men are victims of violence – it is usually committed by another man. To make yet another “what about the poor men” comment when a woman and her children have been killed this way is incredibly insensitive.

    • Phenix

      If you truly believe what you just said, you are living with your head in the ground in your own private Idaho. Do some research.

    • calabasa

      You’re an idiot.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Please fuck off.

  • Meghan Murphy

    You’re right. I do have an agenda! It’s to stop erasing and ignoring male violence against women when it’s right in front of our noses.

    • Grizz2

      How is it right in front of anyone’s nose? Not all the facts have been released. When they have you can agenda all you want. Until then, it’s ignorant to make assumptions.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Well, someone in the house killed the whole family then killed themselves… Who could it possibly be???

    • Grizz2

      The gun was found between both adults and there was a note in which the details have not been released. Until they are, it’s possible that either was the shooter.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Were you afraid for your life?

  • Meghan Murphy

    Yes! Because women are CONSTANTLY shooting up their families because of ‘mental health’ issues. OH WAIT. It’s actually MEN who kill their FEMALE partners and ex-partners (as well as their families and pets) EVERY GOD DAMNED DAY. Male violence. Name the problem.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Fuck off MRA.

  • Meghan Murphy

    The MRAs are coming the MRAs are coming! Back to Reddit with the lot of ya!

    • Suzan D Reed

      What’s a MRA? What’s Reddit?

      • Meghan Murphy

        What’s feminism? What’s a man? Where am I??

  • Meghan Murphy

    There is no reason to nitpick at Cassandra’s comment. Every time we mention ‘helping women’ we don’t need to also mention ‘helping children.’

    • Just Me

      When you showcase a story about women and children in a violent situation, where they are victims of abuse, yes you do need to equally mention helping the children alongside the woman. I have no clue why you even have taken offense to this. It makes absolutely no sense to me that I’m getting ragged on for the reminder about the children who existed in this very story along side the woman.

      • Meghan Murphy

        I’m not particularly offended, I just didn’t understand the purpose of your comment. All Cassandra said was “Articles like this are crucial in helping women,” which you seemed upset by. She clearly didn’t mean anything wrong by it, nor is there anything wrong with saying what she said.

        • Wren

          But Meghan, we all almost forgot that the CHILDREN were murdered too!!! How insensitive of us!!! I think the fact that you posted their picture made me think they were still ALIVE!!! That’s why you shouldn’t post pictures of dead people!!!

          cue twilight zone music.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Oh stop this bullshit please. Yes! Women are capable of abuse. No! Men are not killed at the hands of women, daily. Men do not live in fear of women. Stop the whataboutery please.

    • Rachel King

      Please get off your high horse. I wasn’t saying whataboutery. I was saying both sexes like pulling the same cards. Yes, it’s horrible what happened to this woman at the hands of a man. Would you like me to go find some cases where women have been killing men? Or do you only cover one side of the problem. I’ll take that apology for language now as well. As I’ve been nothing but polite and respectful while commenting. Have a blessed day.

      • Meghan Murphy

        I will not get off my high horse! It is my horse and I love it. Stop telling me what to do with my horse.

      • Phenix

        Nothing but polite?!? You need to pull your head out of the sand and look around you.

        • Morag999

          “Nothing but polite?!?”

          Yeah, exactly. Rachel, and all the other thought-stoppers extraordinaire who have descended upon this article, are anything but polite.

          All their talk of an amorphous “humanity” which is in need of “peace” and much “healing,” due to the problem of free-floating violence (a violence which, in the name of equality, is completely random and sexless) fools nobody. It’s shallow and aggressive.

          These are the kind of people who would crush you, and then smile and call it a “hug.”

      • Alienigena

        It would be nice if you backed up your case with some actual statistics or peer reviewed studies, or reviews done by reputable organizations (e.g. Cochrane Collaboration, more health based). Rather than just making claims. I think your claims to politeness a re bit spurious.

  • Thank you for the link. Even talking about making things like “controlling their social media accounts, surveillance through apps” illegal to do to adults ought to make a difference.

  • This is an extremely well-written piece. I had heard about the news story without any details of how it all went down. If you’re in an abusive domestic relationship, please take advantage of resources available through thehotline.org to discretely, safely, leave the abusive person. #peace

  • Grizz2

    Can you people read? At all? I think what I’ve written is pretty clear.

  • Grizz2

    Men don’t report being abused by women. They get laughed at by the police if they do. I’m not saying it would make a huge difference, but the numbers are wrong for that reason. She’s also not making a deduction. Her mind is made up. I never once said that Megan was the shooter, but wouldn’t you feel stupid if she was?

    • Michelle Z.

      I know more than one police officer who would not laugh at that. They take every report seriously.

    • Alienigena

      Implying that men are the only ones who under-report domestic violence is just inaccurate and misleading. In the UK on average women are assaulted 35 times by a male partner before they report the abuse to police. This is a statistic that was generated by the British Home Office. http://www.refuge.org.uk/get-help-now/what-is-domestic-violence/domestic-violence-the-facts/

      Giving the lie to the claim that men are just as much victims of deadly domestic violence is the statistic that of the 72% of all murder-suicides that involve an intimate partner, 94% of the victims of these murder suicides are female. http://www.ncadv.org/learn-more/statistics/national

    • Melanie

      There’s a long history of the police not taking women seriously when they report male violence, including ‘domestic’ violence and sexual violence. This fact is actually a well known part of the problem.

  • Rachel King

    This attitude right here is why more men don’t speak up. Equality should be for all. It shouldn’t be “Something terrible happened, so no one commiserate and share experiences.” ANYONE can be abused. ANYONE can be an abuser. I don’t understand why guys get the short end of the stick when it comes to being a victim of rape, abuse, whatever. The fact they have a penis doesn’t exempt them from bad things happening.

    Sharing experiences helps a community as a whole learn and grow. :/

    • Meghan Murphy

      Yes, the poor silenced men.

    • fragglerock

      The fact that they have a penis exempts them from many bad things happening. Men aren’t advised to not accept drinks they didn’t mix, not walk alone at night, not wear revealing clothing because some woman might take advantage of them. Men often use their penises as weapons against women and each other. The fact that historically it was acceptable and legal to rape and beat your wife comes from centuries of misogyny that was not undone by the women’s movement.

    • Phenix

      No one is saying that men are not abused. What the research tells us is that the number of women who are abused by men is disgustingly high. Do some research, or check out the numbers of women and men who are abused on the Pew Research site.

    • namesareirrelevant

      As has been so eloquently put below – Fuck. Off.

    • Cassandra

      Men are ALREADY MORE THAN EQUAL. Why are you here scolding women for talking about male violence against women? And when men are abused, it’s almost always by OTHER MEN, ergo again, MALE VIOLENCE.

      When you read an article about diabetes, do you go into the comments section and say “What about the people with muscular dystrophy?!!? It’s all just DISEASE! Don’t talk about your disease because anybody can have a disease!” ?

      Yeah, you probably don’t do that, right? What the fuck is wrong with you?

  • Rachel King

    I think she means Men’s Rights Activists. However, some of us are HUMAN RIGHTS ACTIVISTS. Meaning equality for all. No victim-blaming for all. You know treating everyone as equals, with dignity and respect. Which is why I’ve refrained from her crass and unprofessional name calling and profanity. Some of us can make our points with out it. Give it a try, Meghan.

    • Meghan Murphy

      Everyone isn’t equal, Rach.

      • Suzan D Reed

        We are equal under the law, according to the Constitution, but that’s in the U.S.

        • Meghan Murphy

          But not actually, right?

        • Cassandra

          No, we’re not.

    • Cassandra

      The Donald Trump campaign called. They want you back.

  • Grizz2

    I don’t believe in god. I’ve also been in a couple abusive relationships. I’m not sure how that eliminates objectivity from your mind. Sorry if I choose to not assume who the killer was until they actually release the information.

  • Cassandra

    DEAR GOD WHAT ABOUT THE MEN??!!!!

  • Cassandra

    Some decorum? Are we having tea with the Queen? Should I get you some smelling salts?

  • Cassandra

    Thank God you’re here to stop the REVERSE SEXISM! And I think Lee Harvey Oswald killed her and the kids. You in?

    • Grizz2

      There is no reverse sexism. Just sexism.

      • Meghan Murphy

        There is also sarcasm.

  • JustASC

    Oh, ffs, I’m sorry you went through that, but the claim is that wives abuse husbands “Way more then probably men do to wives”. Are you honestly telling me that against statistical evidence to the contrary, your experience means the above claim is true? Because if you want to get into anecdotes, I don’t know a single woman who hasn’t experienced some form of violence, abuse, or harassment from a man, and most women I know have experienced it more than once, from multiple different men, myself included. The women I know who’ve experienced all this, by the way? Much larger number than 6.

    And this: “I would implore you to consider that just as the abuse of women by men was not viewed as such for a very long time, so too is the abuse of men by women under-examined and largely unbelieved.”

    ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME??? Did you know that what a lot of men report as “abuse” is a woman not having dinner ready? Most abuse by men of women TO THIS DAY is not considered abuse. Fuck, in the article linked, they’re doubting her allegations of abuse were true after he fucking killed her. How do you deny what’s right under your goddam nose?

  • Cassandra

    You can’t use crayons? Do you usually use crayons? Do you like crayons? Do you maybe eat them? They’re full of dye that’s no good for your brain. You may want to ease up on the crayons.

  • Meghan Murphy

    I’M SORRY I WILL TRY TO BE MORE POSITIVE ABOUT MEN MURDERING WOMEN EVERY DAY. #BLESSED

    • Morag999

      Apparently, since not all men are evil, and not all women become victims of male violence, all those statistics — those ones that show clear and overwhelming patterns of male-on-female violence — should be ignored. It’s just rude to notice those numbers.

      Because according to unoriginal, unthinking Rachel, naming the problem IS the problem. Naming the problem shows bitterness, and a bitter attitude towards femicide is not OK. In fact, it might be equal to or worse than murder itself. It might, in fact, CAUSE the problem.

      Not to mention, bitterness in a woman is unattractive, So: cheer up, be positive, spread the love far and wide, and God fucking bless everyone on Earth, including the men who’d rather kill women and babies and the family dog than see them live free from their ownership and control.

      • Michelle Z.

        The only thing that *directly* CAUSES violence is the perpetrator. He (or she, on occasion) CHOOSES to bring about violence. It sounds to me like you just said that it’s womens’ fault that they are the victims of violence, something a rapist would say. One in three women in North America (I don’t know stats elsewhere) will have been the victim of abuse at least once in their life. ONE IN THREE. That should alarm anyone. Ladies, look to your left, then look to your right – one of you is likely to be a victim or already is.

        Note: I didn’t say or implied you were a rapist, but what you implied “sounds” like the words of a rapist.

        As to “naming the problem IS the problem” – that is the vitriol here. Any counsellor will tell a patient that naming the problem, saying it out loud, removes some of the power that problem has. It’s only when you identify the exact problem that you can work towards a solution. The problem right now is that most males feel and act upon a sense of entitlement that is a result of hundreds of years of patriarchal rule. Look at how single mothers (I acknowledge single fathers too, but you are much rarer) have to go through struggling because, for the most part, men don’t participate in raising our children nearly enough.

        And if you think equality exists in today’s western societies, I urge you to talk to at least one marginalized person and LISTEN to their story, such as a woman of colour, a disabled man, a transgendered person. Or, I can tell you about how I was systematically discriminated against at work because of my gender.

        It really is time to stop denying the fact that we live in a world that is ruled by a colonial-capitalistic-christian patriarchy.

  • Meghan Murphy

    “Both sides” is not a thing. Either you want to end patriarchy and male violence or you don’t.

  • Meghan Murphy

    no…. 🙁

    • Karla Gjini

      omg
      is this conversation real
      I’m grateful for some comedic relief thanks haha

  • Meghan Murphy

    Yes she is.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Hey man, I didn’t invent inequality. Acknowledging reality does not create reality. Enjoy your blinders.

  • Meghan Murphy

    WHY would Megan Short shoot herself and her whole family on the day she planned to move out?

  • Morag999

    “Not all men are evil, not all women are victims. Perpetuating that is part of the problem.”

    What problem would that be, then? That men daily murder women? And who would be “perpetuating” that problem? The men who do the murdering, or the women who are “bitter” about women being murdered by men?

  • Karla Gjini

    thanks for this well written, thoughtful article Meghan – as always!

  • Michelle Z.

    I personally enjoyed the article, and then this stream of comments left me with a bad taste in my mouth. Let’s not forget what the article is about: the real existence and danger of non-physical types of domestic abuse.

    Saying this discussion should be “equal” or asking “what about the men”, is like the ignorance of #alllivesmatter. Let’s look at the statistics where I live (since people already brought that up): “The majority of spousal violence victims are women, representing 83% of all victims” in my part of the woods (link to source at the end of my post). So yes, we know that all lives matter, but can we all just focus on the 83% for a moment? A day? A month? Where I live, I am 8 times more likely than man of being the victim of a spousal homicide. Being part of the 17% and insisting your voice be as loud, appears selfish [I deliberately use “appears” over “is”] and can leave a lot of women feeling insulted. Having been the victim of abuse from a male (physical) and subsequently from a female (psychological), I too feel insulted.

    To *all* the victims of abuse (including men): I truly feel for what you have gone through and nobody should diminish your experience. I also believe that we need to all be allies in this battle for the basic human right of feeling safe in your own home. Before anymore hurtful comments are posted, please take a moment to consider two things: why do I feel offended and want to lash out, and what has the other person gone through that might give them their perspective? With so many victims here, we must not verbally abuse each other.

    The author wrote, submitted, and published this article and we all clicked it to read it, so yes, this is HER article, HER moment to be heard. I also believe in the Golden Rule, so if you don’t like being verbally attacked, don’t verbally attack (remember that two wrongs don’t make a right). If you don’t agree, it is a far, far better thing to attack the content of the comment or argument, not the person making it.

    If anyone read this far, I appreciate my moment.

    Statistics: Domestic Violence: http://www.women.gov.on.ca/owd/english/ending-violence/domestic_violence.shtml

  • Phenix

    You men just cannot handle not being the center of attention, nor do you do much research. This article is about women who have been abused, which happens far more often than vice versa. Do you read the newspaper, watch news on TV or online? Try looking for information to support your claim at the Pew Research site. Bet it will blow your socks off when you see the actual numbers. . . and if you think Pew Research is some left-wing promoted research, google Pew Research and find out who they are.

  • Phenix

    Why don’t you just go pray for all victims, and stop arguing here. Take it to your higher power, and perhaps some day you will find enlightenment.

  • Phenix

    Not at as high a rate as women are killed by men. Where did you get your statistics from?

  • SOAFAN

    Too often this happens, because the abuser truly believes that if he cannot have her and the kids, no one else can either, so death is the way they believe they are “keeping the family together”. Also his family mentions several times how he took the family to Disney in February, like that would magically make all right in the marriage. I think seeing that quote really throws me over the edge. Who cares where he took them? He waited to kill her on the day she was leaving and chances are, made sure he killed the kids in front of her first, to further make her suffer.

  • Sheila Cohen

    How tragic! It so often is the case that the abusive/narcissistic/ soociopathic husband or boyfriend (and sometimes it’s the woman) is thought of by everyone outside the relationship as a wonderful, great guy. And the woman ends up questioning her own feelings and experiences and blames herself. These guys are experts at this…they have to be in control at all times. It has become an epidemic ….The woman needs to get out at the first sign of these red flag behaviors. The longer you stay, the more addictive the relationship becomes and the greater the chance you will be severely abused or ..in this case murdered.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Well, to be fair, the intention of the post was to educate about the invisibility of abuse, and the way in which psychological, emotional, and verbal abuse is a red flag and should be taken seriously, as it can be just as damaging and dangerous as obvious physical abuse. The point is that black eyes are not the only measure of abuse.

    Statistically (and we pay attention to reality), it’s extremely unlikely a woman would commit a crime like this. In this case, even less so. Megan was open about abuse that was happening, tried to leave Mark, went back, tried/planned to leave again. This is a common pattern. Men very often kill or try to kill their partners (and their children and pets) when they leave or try to leave. Women simply don’t do this. Beyond that, Mark Short was the only family member autopsied (there is no plan to autopsy Megan) and in the US the law requires an autopsy for all suicides. A memorial is planned for Megan and her children while Mark’s memorial will happen separately.

    It seems pretty clear what happened.

  • Meghan Murphy

    NOBODY says *only* black lives matter. They say Black Lives Matter because BLACK PEOPLE are the ones being murdered by the cops and because that reality is due to racism.

    That’s not creating division, that’s pointing out that inequality exists and is systemic. The ‘division’ is already there.

    Like, do you think keeping your head in the sand will somehow resolve inequality??

    Good god.

  • Meghan Murphy

    No dear. I just understand and acknowledge reality.

  • Melinda Towne

    No matter which of them was the shooter, it is a mental health issue. Whoever did the shooting decided the children were better off dead – so either the shooter had a serious mental health disorder, and was delusional, was the victim of abuse and felt the kids were better of dead then continuing to be victims, or was the abuser and committed the ultimate abuse. Assuming she was the victim, her biggest mistake may have been announcing to anyone that she planned on leaving. The cardinal rule – once you make the decision to leave, do it immediately. If you discuss it with anyone, there’s a possibility the abuser will find out.

    • Meghan Murphy

      So male violence and domestic abuse is just a ‘mental health issue’? Boy oh boy that’s a lot of crazy men…

  • Bri

    I usually do not comment on articles and I’m sorry but I am more upset now after reading MOST of these comments then the tragic article we should be focusing on. Yes men abuse women and yes women abuse men! Abuse in all shapes and forms to all genders is real. I am not going to get into statistics for either side because this article was not about which gender has it worse. What we should be focusing on is this story at this his moment, when an article is posted about which group has it worse then all of the comments I just read would be relevant! Instead of everyone thinking about the people in the story you are all trying to one up each other and making it about yourselfs! In my opinion that is what is wrong with society, everyone thinks they need to prove that they have it worse than someone else, and their opinion us the only one that matters and is correct. So if we could all stop bickering like children and trying to make someone look stupid so you look correct and focus on this story for even 5min that would be amazing! The way most of you have made this tragedy about you instead of the family that lost their lives is shameful.

    • Meghan Murphy

      I’m not exactly sure whose comments you are referring to, but the feminists here have not ‘made it about themselves’ by contextualizing male abuse or talking about their own experiences of abuse… Apologies if I’ve misinterpreted you.

      • Bri

        You don’t need to apologize for anything, and you did and didn’t misinterpret me. I am specifically referrinig to the comments made regarding which gender has it worse, and the ones regarding statistics of male vs female abusers. My point is that, in my opinion, instead of focusing on this family’s story a lot the comments started to become a debate or even attacks (ie: someone told you to get of your high horse) which are inappropriate things to say after reading a story about abuse. Once again though this is just my opinion!

        • Meghan Murphy

          Well, it’s not really about ‘which gender has it worse,’ it’s about naming the problem… And the problem is male violence, which is systemic. Individualizing these kinds of stories is unhelpful in terms of prevention.

        • Yisheng Qingwa

          “gender” is bullshit. and WOMEN suffer the vast majority of violence AT THE HANDS OF MEN.

          • Richard Rabinowitz

            Gender is not bullshit if it’s the center of the point you are trying to make. (“Women” – a gender – “suffer the vast majority of violence AT THE HANDS OF MEN” – another gender.)

          • Meghan Murphy

            That’s sex-based… i.e. male violence against females. Gender is the ideology behind patriarchy/sexism.

    • Meghan Murphy

      I’m not exactly sure whose comments you are referring to, but the feminists here have not ‘made it about themselves’ by contextualizing male abuse or talking about their own experiences of abuse… Apologies if I’ve misinterpreted you.

    • Yisheng Qingwa

      NAMETHEPROBLEM. COM

  • Wren

    I don’t know…I think that’s a stretch. That line of thinking means men can blame their doting mamas on their bad behavior?? And spoiled children can claim they were emotionally neglected?? No parent is perfect, but to equate indulgence with neglect seems wrong to me. In the end, people who are abusive CHOOSE to be abusive.

    • calabasa

      I agree with Will, Anemone, and Ms. Pris. It’s always in highly traditional, patriarchal households in which the mother spoils and overindulges the son (usually the only or oldest son) that I see this happen. I think when coupled with abuse from the father it’s particularly predictive of an entitled/insecure man who is likely to become abusive (has always been told he’s “special,” but fails to live up to that, in his mind).

      An anecdotal example: my ex-abuser’s mother was Spanish and Roman-Catholic. She had obviously spoiled her son all his life (months after the relationship ended I went to Amazon and found it was still logged into his account; his mother had left a note there asking him if he “needed anything”). She was constantly baking cakes for him, making food for him to take home, etc. (He once texted me months after we broke up–and after he raped me–“yes, I will try to be mindful,” and then followed up with, “sorry, that was for my mom”). He went to the movies with his mom (like, on dates). He had put a picture of the two of us up as his profile pic on Facebook when we were dating, and after he broke up with me he replaced it with a picture of him and his mom, hugging her from behind while standing up, her sitting down, and smiling up at him absolutely adoringly, as though in love with her adult son.

      My mother also commented that I looked quite a lot like his mother (this was while we were dating).

      I noticed that in his parents’ house there was a portrait of him as a child his grandmother had painted hanging on the wall. Was there a matching portrait of his sister? (Can you guess the answer to that one)?

      His father was neglectful (not around until he was twelve, constantly stationed elsewhere with his military job), and, as far as I could see, abusive (picking fights with his mother and yelling at her for no reason; she was your typical quiet, sweet, anxiety-ridden, constantly-working female who takes care of the house and the meals and everything else, on top of working full-time). His father was a malingerer who played up his illness to the hilt. He also picked fights with him (my ex), about stupid things, for no reason (I had to tell him to stop once because I was so sick of it). I think his father was likely jealous of him.

      His mother’s fawning over him certainly set him up for unreasonable expectations (entitlement to women’s adoration). It also instilled this idea that he had to be “special” to have any worth. This relationship has also been described as “emotional incest,” and yes, it is a form of child abuse (often when one parent feels neglected by his or her spouse, and begins to court a favored child by inappropriate spoiling and behaviors that cast the child as more of a partner than a child; I think, though, this type of son-spoiling and fetishizing of sons is incredibly common in women who come from highly patriarchal traditions).

      That this man I dated would so obviously show signs of deep mental illness/personality disorder (incredible insecurity with women, mixed with entitlement, and a predatory mindset), and that he would abuse and rape a woman who was a stand-in for a mother figure (he raped me once after I was extremely kind to him, and he had lay down with his head in my lap while I praised him and stroked his hair), says a lot, IMO, about how he felt about his mother and how he was taking out his feeling about her, by extension, on me.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Like, yeah I’M the one who seems bitter, riiiite?

  • Michelle Z.

    Morag, thank you for clarifying. Your post did leave me a bit confused because I’d read your comment on the curfew article with which I completely agreed!

    It’s very difficult not to jump to conclusions, especially on sensitive issues. I take a little extra time taken to read and understand what the person has said can work wonders (I did read your post at least 3 times). I’ve seen countless occasions where two people are hurling insults when they actually agree!

  • Michelle Z.

    Morag, thank you for taking the time and clarifying.

    I had composed and submitted a lengthier reply but it got lost in the webz I guess. And now, I can’t remember what I said well enough to do it justice.

    Anyway, glad we can realise we’re all on the same team 🙂

  • Meghan Murphy

    Women don’t generally kill men.

    • Teresa Gemellaro

      The woman a man I know had killed a horse with her bare hands once, as well as been charged with violent assault of her hairdresser. In the end, the woman left the man, but if she had not, there is no doubt that she would have been quite capable of it, especially when she had numbers of occasions of unreported violence against him.

      • Meghan Murphy

        The exception doesn’t make the rule.

      • Cassandra

        What was he wearing? Was he drinking? Did he lead her on? Did he nag her? Did he try to leave her? He must have done something to deserve it.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Domestic abuse is a gendered issue.

  • Meghan Murphy

    The problem, unless you are blind, is MALE VIOLENCE. Like, against women.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Back to the MRA forum with ya.

    • Autumn

      What is MRA?

      • Meghan Murphy

        Men’s Rights Activists

  • Melanie

    Looking at this crime objectively, it’s most likely the case that the man murdered this woman and her children.

  • Melanie

    Discussing male violence and the reasons for it is not ‘hating on men’.

  • Melanie

    People with mental health problems are no more likely to commit murder than anyone else. Men are more likely to commit murder than women, and more likely to commit the specific crimes of domestic violence, family massacre and murder suicide. So the assumption that has been made here is a fair and objective one.

  • Melanie

    This article is about male violence against women. Try to stay on topic.

  • KRLN

    (… Sigh)

    Yes, men can be in those relationships too.
    Yes, violence by women against men should not be minimized.

    No, there isn’t a societal system of oppression that deliberately normalizes and encourages violence from women against men, unlike violence from men against women. Which is what we discuss in this forum.

    Go be a “cool feminist” somewhere else.

  • Yisheng Qingwa

    Fuck off.

  • Yisheng Qingwa

    NOPE.

    NAMETHEPROBLEM. COM

  • missgigi

    A lot are missing the point. You don’t always see the bruises and even close relatives and acquaintances make you feel as if you’re the crazy one because you have this wonderful guy. Eventhough, they know all the hateful hurtful things he does while he’s out there in the streets. Someties you don’t see the bruises.

  • Yisheng Qingwa

    Yet, here you are, alive to tell your sob story on an article about MALE VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN.

    Men are parasites.

  • Meghan Murphy

    The statistics for female victims are, likewise, “hopelessly incomplete” due to underreporting, and yet we STILL know that women are killed by their MALE partners and ex-partners EVERY DAY. http://www.domesticabuseshelter.org/infodomesticviolence.htm

  • River Hawk

    I think she is being sarcastic and showing how, every time someone says they are abused or attacked, another group says well what about us!!

    • Meghan Murphy

      I don’t think she’s being sarcastic.

      • Cassandra

        Definitely not.

  • Kendall Turtle

    Well if that’s the case, we should just get rid of men, they are too weak to take criticism and innately dangerous to women and children. If anyone is a “misandrist” it would be you.

  • Chris

    I have a wonderful mother and I want to thank you for reminding me not to take that or her for granted. I’m very sorry that that was your experience. I don’t see any silver lining so I won’t feed you any b.s.. Except not being bound by made up notions of what people will or won’t do. That’s enlightening at least. I hate when people say things like “he could never commit murder, it’s not in him. He’s not capable of murder.” No one is a murderer until they murder someone.

  • Melanie

    Who is committing the majority of violence?

  • Cassandra

    DEAR GOD WON’T SOMEBODY CALL OUT THE “MISANDRY” IN AN ARTICLE ABOUT MALE VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN?!

    Go fuck yourself, you MRA dipshit.

    • Melissa Sin Ledger

      what exactly are you moderating that something that’s a personal attack is considered okay to let through moderation for posting? Anyone?

      • Meghan Murphy

        We don’t have much toleration for MRAs here…

  • Cassandra

    This particular case and article are about Male Violence Against Women, which is still at epidemic proportions. Female violence against males is not at epidemic proportions. That’s what NAMETHEPROBLEM means.

  • Cassandra

    No. The problem isn’t VIOLENCE in a some kind of vacuum. The problem we are talking about is MALE violence against women. Stop being a handmaiden for the patriarchy. You’ll soon discover that the cookie crumbs they give you are poison.

  • Cassandra

    This isn’t about you. This is about male violence against women. That’s what we’re talking about here. Stop making it about you.

  • Cassandra

    Back to the MRA handmaiden swamp with you. I hear the honey badgers are looking for new members.

  • Cassandra

    I was going to respond to the Andrea Yates comment re postpartum depression/depression but just didn’t have the oomph to address such willful stupidity. Thank you for saying it, and for your other excellent points, too.

  • Cassandra
  • Cassandra
  • Cassandra

    DEAR GOD WON’T SOMEBODY THINK OF DON & JULIE?!?!?!!!

  • Meghan Murphy

    omg stop

  • Kendall Turtle

    but what if you implying they don’t put others first offends them and then enrages them and they kill you cuz of their menz brain? I mean they can’t help it, there ego is naturally too outrageous to handle anything besides telling them what good guys they are. See how essentialism leads to one conclusion, the no-men conclusion?

    I got harassed just recently by a man because I said he might not be as nice as he thinks, he proceeded to call me a cunt and a bitch and then repeatedly messaged me online asking about if I’d been raped and that’s why I “hated men” so much, he even declared that my child was a product of rape. That was from me just saying he might not be nice.

    See, us radical feminists, we believe men have been raised to feel entitled to women and children’s bodies, that many of them do not view us as fully humans but as objects that are sort of human. This justifies to them all sorts of behaviors. It isn’t some natural problem of men, it’s societal.

    • Cassandra

      And sadly that man’s reaction is very common.

    • Suzan D Reed

      It is a societal problem with lots of men, yes. Can we as parents raise our sons to be better than that, YES. While we do that we raise our daughters not to put up with any of that lame crap, they deserve the best of people in their lives, all our children do.

  • Kendall Turtle

    Yeah, that doesn’t really help all the women who can’t afford a gun or training to use the gun correctly. Maybe we should just teach men to view women and children as fully human and they’ll stop being so violent. Dehumanization is the root of all human atrocities.

  • Diana LilRed Dellafave

    So basically you MRAs are all saying women don’t get abused by men as much as men do by women…..do you remember Hedda Nussbaum? Or even Tracey Thurman? These women were not only beaten beyond recognition, but mentally and psychologically abused by their men as well, yet women are the abusers. What planet do you people live on?

    I’d also like to add that it took me almost 5 years to leave a narcissistic, abusive piece of garbage (he wasn’t a man, but a wimp) that enjoyed playing mind games, using whatever I said against me, etc. Will I ever go through that again? Fuck no.

  • Melissa Sin Ledger

    One is not an “MRA” for pointing out that it goes both ways. I believe in equality which is what feminism was for. If that’s not your definition, you’re doing it wrong. If you want to talk about domestic violence, ignoring the fact that it happens to men and the fact that it happens BY women does not make you a feminist. Me pointing it out doesn’t make me a “men’s rights advocate.” It means someone didn’t fully cover a topic and I showed the glaring hole. If you didn’t want to acknowledge that it happens to men and by women, you shouldn’t have covered it at all. And where the hell are all of you screaming at the woman above me who says that her mother did it to her father? Is she wrong for posting too? Is it less wrong for her to post it because it’s her personal experience? I’m sorry if I know men that have been beaten and raped and find it just as important to acknowledge. I’m sorry your male friends don’t trust you enough to tell you it’s happened to them.

    • Meghan Murphy

      “I believe in equality which is what feminism was for.”

      No. Feminism is about liberating women from patriarchal (male) oppression. It’s more specific than simply “equality.”

      • Melissa Sin Ledger

        fem·i·nism
        ˈfeməˌnizəm/Submit
        noun
        noun: feminism
        the advocacy of women’s rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men.

        rewriting the definition to suit your aim is not the same as changing what the word truly means. feminism, by definition, is about equality. I’m sorry we don’t agree on the subject but it’s not like I don’t know what the word itself means.

        • Meghan Murphy

          The reason women aren’t ‘equal’ to men is because of patriarchy. Women are oppressed by patriarchy. So no, it’s not just about “equality.” Again, it’s more specific than that.

        • Cassandra

          Feminism is and always has been about the liberation of women from male oppression. That’s why it’s also known as women’s liberation. “Equality” feminism is what happened to feminism to water it down and make it more palatable to men. And remember, just because something is in the dictionary doesn’t make it correct. Academia, publishing, etc. are still controlled by men, like everything else.

    • Zuzanna Smith

      I’ve never seen a headline that read “Devoted good woman kills her nagging husband because she snapped” have you?

      • Alara Rogers

        No, but I’ve certainly seen headlines about women murdering their husbands or families and then themselves. Brynne Hartmann, wife of comedian Phil Hartmann, killed him and then herself. Also recently read about a case where a woman murdered her two adult daughters and then killed herself in front of her husband, while said adult daughters and husband pleaded with her to stop.

        Talking about violence by women against men may be off topic for an article about how men commit violence against women, but honestly I thought this was an article about how emotional abuse can be every bit as much of a red flag for a potential family-killer as physical abuse can be, and in that sense, pointing out that no, the victim is not always a woman and the perpetrator is not always a man is justified. Physical abuse is much, much, much more common from men, but there are high enough rates of emotional abuse from women against their partners that it should be taken seriously (though I suspect still not as high as the rates of men against women).

        It is true that when women kill their families, or kill their husbands, the news generally doesn’t try to portray them as good family women who snapped. But I don’t often see that portrayal for men, either. Maybe it’s about the news I read.

        • Meghan Murphy

          And how often does that happen, as compared to incidences of men murdering women?

    • Melanie

      This article is about the specific crime of male violence against women and their families. Stop changing the subject.

      • Cassandra

        Yes, but thank she showed “the glaring hole.” If we leave men out of any discussion it’s a glaring hole and we shouldn’t talk about it at all!!
        LOL.

        • Morag999

          Re: “the glaring hole.” That glaring, man-shaped hole! Oh sheesh, I laughed at that one, too. Drily.

          Isn’t it interesting how people with no interest in, or knowledge of, feminism, and people who are antagonistic toward the movement, have the strongest feelings and most expert opinions on how real feminism gets properly done? And that the only kind of feminism they approve of is the un-feminist kind?

  • Cassandra

    Men are “bullied” by the women in their lives and that’s why the men kill them?

    You are so gross.

    • Suzan D Reed

      Margaret Atwood said it first.

      • Meghan Murphy

        You reeeeally misunderstood her intention.

  • shurdell

    It is a good article altho I see that the point was missed by most if not all. The stories were used as examples of the type of abuse which is so often missed because there are no physical marks. The only ones who see it are the friends and family of the one being manipulated and yes, isolation is the greatest effective tool.
    All abuse is not particular to any one race, gender, size etc.
    I’ve seen very big people go through abuse from even the smallest of people, I’ve known men who complained of rape, and mental abuse.
    Being logical one would understand that men do suffer the same abuses as women but I see no where in the article that says men suffer more than women.
    The article is good to show or remind us that what we see with the naked eye is not the same as what happens behind closed doors and yes, the abused gets used to the idea that there is good and bad with everything in life and we should just learn to be thankful for the good.
    I grew up witnessing and enduring all types of abuse so when it started happening to me, I rebelled against it and ended up being a single parent.
    There are so many resources available today then in the 1950s to the 1980s but still we need to be aware of those who need help in our circle as they may not know they need help or that help is even available.

  • Zuzanna Smith

    So I guess you’re understanding of honor killings too then, since it causes men to lose face?

    • Suzan D Reed

      Understanding the mentality behind something doesn’t mean you agree with it. What happened to “naming the problem”? If all you want is to “name” it, but not solve it, why bother with all that effort?

      • Meghan Murphy

        What exactly do you think ‘feminism’ is.

  • Zuzanna Smith

    Too bad no one is encouraging men to do that.

    • Suzan D Reed

      Well there was this guy named Ghandi, people do do that, no one hears about them though because just like the 30 something who is able to defends them self from a robber by shooting them, it never makes the news.

  • Morag999

    Megan Short was afraid. Of course she was.

    http://www.mcall.com/news/nationworld/pennsylvania/mc-pa-berks-murder-suicide-update-0815-20160815-story.html

    “Berks County District Attorney John Adams said on July 18, police were called to the Short’s home for a domestic dispute, but no charges were filed. Police said Megan Short said she was afraid of her husband and officers told her how to obtain a protection-from-abuse order, but Megan Short declined, Adams said.”

    Meanwhile, over at NBC, they’re still quoting his relatives who describe him as “a family man.” And some commenters over there, like so many of the asshole commenters/trolls who showed up here at Feminist Current, are terrified of the truth about male violence and will say any idiotic thing, any meaningless drivel, in an effort to make people shut up about it. Example:

    ‘ … it’s called “sensationalism”… The entire family is dead, including the dog. It doesn’t matter who did the shooting. They are all gone. Forever.’

    Yeah, sure, right, it doesn’t matter — let’s just allow the public to believe there’s no difference between victim and perpetrator, since both are dead. So goddamn stupid! Worse than stupid, I believe that these people (and there are many women among them) who have persistent urges to deflect pointed discussion, and cover up the nature of male crimes, are truly dangerous. They help abusive and murderous men feel unchallenged, freer and safer to do as they wish with their families. Take them on a fun family vacation, or buy a gun and kill them all — whatever the man feels is best for them.

    • Alienigena

      “The entire family is dead, including the dog. It doesn’t matter who did the shooting.” Are the people who make these kinds of statements the same people who constantly yelp about crime rates and the need for ever more repressive measures to be taken? Isn’t crime prevention part of the duty of a society’s governments and police services. If you don’t know who is committing a certain type of violent crime how do you even begin to solve the problem? Or provide assistance to victims (i.e. budget for those services)?

  • Wren

    You clearly don’t understand the quotation. The way you rephrased it simply makes you a rape apologist.

    • Suzan D Reed

      I extremely understand the quotation, to “some men” being laughed at is the worse thing that can happen to them, it destroys their egos and self esteem. Macho codes about “death before dishonor” are the result of this. But I don’t see how this would make me a “rape apologist”.

  • Wren

    GAHAHAH!!

  • Wren

    I have two dogs. Not only do they know when someone is making me uncomfortable, they let me know whenever anyone is near the house. Of course this includes the mailman and squirrels 🙂

  • wearingmyburka

    Great article! I forwarded it to my daughter, who was in an emotionally abusive relationship. Thank you!

  • Meghan Murphy

    I’m not sure what word you’re talking about?

    • DeColonise

      “last week…” I think this person disliked it right form the start for being yet another important piece.

  • Meghan Murphy

    No one denies that men experience abuse also. But domestic violence is still a gendered issue.

  • Meghan Murphy

    But men don’t see women as human, is the problem. Men as a class.

    • Suzan D Reed

      Well then, that’s the problem, so we teach our children that all people are people. All people have value. I really thought we had this getting worked on back in the 1970’s, what happened to the progress? (just musing there)

      • Meghan Murphy

        Oooooh, great idea! I’ll be sure to alert the movement.

  • Meghan Murphy

    You are delusional. There are more than enough weapons in this society and it’s not helping.

  • Alienigena

    “She should have done it covertly…” You do realise that human beings are fallible. Most are not trained operatives or cool under fire. Why do you focus on what she should have done? This article like articles about sexual assault tries to put the onus on the perpetrator not the victim. One has to acknowledge reality … but you seem to be blaming the victim for not ‘having her shit together’. Maybe she didn’t receive the best advice, maybe in the heat of the moment she didn’t have the presence of mind to follow all the guidelines given to her by counselors. Should she have died because of potential missteps? Not in my opinion. Seems a bit flippant to say “don’t think you can hop off the couch … and leave”. I don’t think I would want you to be my counselor in the event I needed it. One estimate (based on UK data) is that women get abused 35 times before they consider reporting the abuse. I think there is probably a lot of rumination (every time the abuse happens) about what to do.

  • Alienigena

    This from the person who just told someone else on this forum ‘to get a gun’ because the law/justice system doesn’t always protect women. Where is the shared humanness in making the world a shooting gallery?

  • Kendall Turtle

    the vast majority of male perpetrators are not sociopathic or mentally ill, we use these groups as scapegoats to avoid naming male violence.

  • Meghan Murphy

    I’m not sure why I should be polite to MRA assholes.

    • Suzan D Reed

      Because you are a professional writer and calling people names or using foul language at them because you do not agree with them on a point at that time is a childish behavior. Use your rational and logical rhetoric to persuade opinions.

      • Meghan Murphy

        Meh. I love ‘foul language.’ That’s unlikely to change. In fact, I seem to be getting more potty-mouthed with age.

  • Melanie

    Yes it is a gendered issue. And nobody is denying that men are abused. That’s simply not the topic we’re discussing here. We’re talking about the specific crime of male violence against women and their families.

  • Melanie

    No he just meant that it was a given that I would grow up, marry a man and have babies one day. I actually threw a huge tantrum about it. The point is that girls are groomed from a very young age into marriage, regardless of what they might want or who they might become.

  • Cassandra

    But it’s so fun!

    • Meghan Murphy

      And we are ALL about fun here.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Right. Like, as if Atwood’s quote was justification/an explanation for male violence. She totally missed the point.

  • Meghan Murphy

    “We,” *is* the movement. The movement has been at the whole “trying to change society” thing for some time now.

  • marv

    Choosing conjecture over statistical evidence “is abusive in itself”.

    https://kareningalasmith.com/2014/04/14/can-you-give-me-a-link-to-counting-dead-men/

  • Just Me

    I never suggested, neither believe, that children can decide to leave an abusive parent safely. So what exactly am I wrong about?

    I stated an opinion. Sometimes opinions differ. It has nothing to do with looking for a fight.

    • Ms. Pris

      You felt it necessary to ‘correct’ Cassandra and tell her what she ‘really meant’, and suggested that children are empowered by articles like this.

      • Just Me

        There is a place that exists where we can respectfully disagree with each other or question each other’s thoughts. You’re doing it to me right? Yet I’m not allowed to do it? And no, I was not looking to ‘correct’ Cassandra. I felt it necessary to have a discussion and point out something I felt was missing from the discussion. It had nothing to do with telling Cassandra what she ‘really meant’. Secondly, I never said children were ’empowered by articles like this”.

        • Ms. Pris

          Maybe you should have reread what you wrote, before you denied writing it:

          “Don’t you mean that articles like these are crucial in helping women AND children since children where victims here too?”

  • Just Me

    Death is what determine’s someone’s right, or rather lack of rights, to privacy or consent??????????

    The death of the children should not invalidate their right to privacy and it certainly doesn’t invalidate consent. The fact that they are minors means they can’t give consent anyway. Only a family member could give consent. And I feel that was taken away by posting their faces here. If a man used a woman’s image to post anywhere he wanted, none of us would think that was okay.

    But this runs into a discussion around consent and who has the right to post images and pictures of other people. Are we all allowed to post images and pictures of other people dead and alive without consent or respect to privacy? Aren’t there billions of images of women floating around online that never gave consent where people, mostly men, took their image and posted it where they wanted? It’s something we ALL must start to think about as we start talking more about consent online and consent in real life.

    • Meghan Murphy

      Their faces have been posted by every media outlet who covered this story and I honestly don’t understand the argument against this? How could it harm these children to have their faces, after their tragic death, made public?

      • Just Me

        It goes back the fact that they are minors and the question of what ‘consent’ means. There was a time when minors where protected from these things in journalism. Do we get ‘consent’ where our images show up or not? If we make the news, do we loose ‘consent”? I don’t in general agree with the ease at which the media, social media and other outlets in general steal images without consent. It’s not personal against you. It’s just something I believe deserves a conversation that we have yet to have about the internet. I mean, we all agree that random men posting images of women without their consent is wrong.We call it revenge porn. Yet all of us..and I do mean all of us…will use other people’s images without their consent to set an image with a topic. I just don’t see how it’s okay to post images without a person or families consent to have it posted and represented somewhere for the consumption of the public, even if it’s with the best of intentions or the worst of intentions. Because the question is still around what ‘consent’ means and how we honor other people’s ‘consent’ to their own image.

  • shy virago

    Instead of saying ‘She should have left’ how about ‘He should have left’! He was the perpetrator – he did not have to murder to her.

  • Cassandra

    Totally nailed it.

  • Cassandra

    You rock.

  • Ms. Pris

    I never said it was my grandmother’s fault that my father was abusive! I provided a data point, which was that his mother indulged him, while his father was not abusive.

    It is my father’s fault that he was abusive. HE chose to hurt other people, no one made him do it, or made him the way he was.

    I really don’t appreciate your gross misrepresentation of my comment. It’s very dishonest, and completely contrary to my way of thinking.

  • Ms. Pris

    Punishment doesn’t stop abuse. Punishment happens after the fact. Jail, at least in the US, is a non-rehabilitative system which only perpetuates abuse. I would rather see social change, rejection of toxic ideals of masculinity, and a total social embrace of feminism.

    As long as boys are socialized to think that women are property, and girls are socialized to ‘be nice’ and accept violent behavior, we will not end intimate partner violence.

    • Wren

      So should we stop punishing rape, pedophilia, all sorts of violence?? I mean we barely punish any of that now. A society perpetuates behavior that it sanctions. Criminalizing abuse IS social change.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Upset just means ‘unhappy’, ‘perturbed,’ or ‘troubled.’ I didn’t say you weren’t calm or cool, nor did I say you were rude. You are allowed to disagree, and others are allowed to disagree with you. I didn’t understand the purpose of your comment, and it appeared you were nitpicking or looking to start something over nothing. I was perfectly polite in my response, albeit perhaps stern. All the best.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Ok well I apologize if I misunderstood the intention of your comment.

  • calabasa

    People who deny that domestic violence is gendered might as well say, “there’s no such thing as hate crimes, I mean, other people get murdered too, not just gays and black people, or gay people and black people can be murdered for different reasons, and you might as well call any murder a hate crime…” It is not a logically valid argument. Why do we have the special category of hate crime? Because when people are killed just for the color of their skin or their sexual orientation, it is not a crime of personal but a crime of political, hierarchical hate. It is a symptom of systemic inequality. The murder of women and children by their partners/fathers is a hate crime. The rape of women by men is a hate crime (I say it is, though it has not been recognized as such under the law because of the selfsame denial of gendered violence that you are espousing). The murder of men and children by their partners/mothers is NOT a hate crime. The rape of men by women is NOT a hate crime. Why? We do not have an entire society that normalizes and excuses such behavior because of systematic oppression of the male sex caste. Can you grasp this simple concept?

  • John Stuart Mill

    He was not a “good guy”. He murdered his children. He murdered his wife. He killed his dog. That is not the behavior of a “good guy”. I understand & empathize with the tortured minds of his family. Obviously he was really, really good at fooling people when he wanted to. But in no way was he a “good guy” by any sane definition of “good”. HE MURDERED THEM. Terrible but true.

  • John Stuart Mill

    She’s still statistically in high danger for two years after the separation. She needs to be very careful. Good luck and take care.

  • Cassandra

    From the minute we’re born, females are groomed for their roles as fucktoys/pretty objects, housemaids and mothers. It starts with pepto bismol-colored paint in the nursery, flowery frocks and barrettes, Barbie dolls with a 16 body mass index, makeup kits for little girls, little dolls that are meant to simulate actual babies and they actually poop so you can change their diapers (yes, little girls changing babies’ diapers–when’s the last time you saw that marketed to little boys?), Easy-bake ovens, “Daddy’s little princess” t-shirts and ballet lessons and it continues right into Snow White, Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty (with the contrasting evil older women witches, of course), Ms. America pageants, movie after movie after movie of either romantic situations (where the persistent man (a good-looking creep) gets the girl if he pesters her long enough), or extreme male violence and misogyny, plus pornography and the fact that prostitution even exists, never mind the entire industrial wedding complex, diamond engagement ring commercials and shows about brides. It is EVERYWHERE.

    Welcome to Patriarchy. You can take off your blinders any time you wish.

  • MJ

    You are doing great work here. There are so many types of abuse women are brainwashed into accepting by Patriarchy. This article breaks my heart, but I hope women read it and understand their fears are real, their abuse is real even without physical scars. Internal ones can be so much worse.

  • Richard Rabinowitz

    “feminist claws”? Well, this is a feminist website. You didn’t expect a feminist website to be dominated by feminists?

  • Ash Stevens

    No one has the right to take another person’s life. No one. But that being said, my heart goes out to both of them. What that man did was horribly wrong, but we have to ask ourselves… How did it get to this point? What made him think that this was okay?

    We’re so quick to label people as “bad” or “evil,” but we fail to recognize how these bad and evil behaviors come up. Bad people aren’t born. They’re created. Based on the information above, it sounds like this man grew up in a seriously dysfunctional family that modeled some really shitty behavior. And while that’s no excuse, anyone who has grown up in an F’d up family knows what that means. We pick up behaviors either by mimicking what we see, or by responding to the situations in our environment. And that’s a problem, because these behaviors become rooted in our subconscious, and we’ll be doing things without knowing how or why. We may not even know what we’re doing! This is something we all do, because that’s the way the brain works. But people who have been in hostile situations and dysfunctional environments express this in a much more disturbing way.

    I don’t support this man’s terrible actions in any way. But I also feel for him. I have no doubt that he has been through pain and bullshit. How else could he have come to this?

    • marv

      Many girls are raised in violent homes but they don’t grow to become murders of men and children. Men are socialized in male dominant societies to see women as inferior and deserving of men’s violence. This is a sociological political phenomenon that can’t be reduced to psychological dysfunction.

      • Nat G

        Many girls raised in violent homes become people who tend to harm themselves more than others…

      • Ash Stevens

        Exactly. It goes much deeper than someone just being a “bad” person. There’s a sickness that pervades our families, our culture, and our country. And much of us are lost to this because this kind of sick mentality and behavior is what we grow up in. How can we realize it’s errors and negative consequences when it’s all we’ve ever known? When everyone we spend our time with has this exact same mindset. We’ve got to wake up.

        • marv

          Yeah, it’s hard to wake when we don’t know we’re asleep.

  • Kit Springs

    That was murder not suicide, he pulled the trigger via the strings he had her tied up with. Stay strong, and be a voice where you can.

  • Ash Stevens

    Agreed. I don’t think that anyone has the right to take another person’s life. So, that makes this act unacceptable.

    I’m curious. Were you abused as a child? Did you have drug addicted parents? Were you ever molested? Did you grow up in a neighborhood or family where crime was rampant? Even accepted or expected?

    Have you experience with any of the above? I do. Fortunately for me, I ran away from home at 13 and ended up living in group homes and foster homes. My time in “the system” got me therapy and helped me to develop an awareness of my behavior. Most importantly, it showed me a whole other kind of “normal.” If I hadn’t experienced this, I would have only ever known my life. The examples my parents set. The bullying from kids at school. The self-loathing and bitterness I had developed for myself based on how I was treated (or wasn’t treated) by others.

    There is some fascinating research that reveals how and why our brain works, and how our life experiences affect us. Does it make our actions okay? Hell no. But it sure as shit means that our society has HUGE problems to address. Problems that can only be resolved by going to the very root of what provoked them to sprout in the first place. If you’d like to learn more, I’d recommend watching John Assaraf’s brain-a-thon, where he interviews various experts within this field.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6UC2O0QslM

    I can’t condemn people, because I can recognize they have a deep need for help. Had I not ran away from home, I may have never received the help I so desperately need. And who knows where I would be now…

  • calabasa

    I agree. My ex-abuser also described having no limits, and when he talked about it, it was as though his parents (particularly his mother) had let him down.

    Limits are very important.

  • Cueio Monamú

    “What if Don cracks up and looses it and hits her back someday”
    Uh. I thought he was scared or something… most people who get abused (women, by men) are weaker than their abuser and couldn’t even think of hitting back.

  • cinderchild

    Read “Why Does He Do That” by Lundy Bancroft and share it with every woman you know. If anyone wants a link to a free copy, let me know.