The Women’s March on Washington needs to name the problem

Getty Images
Getty Images

The Women’s March on Washington released its official policy platform on Thursday, and numerous liberal American media outlets deemed it an unequivocally progressive one. Fusion went so far as to call it a “radical feminist platform.” But do the politics live up to the hype?

Since the March was announced, many feminists have wanted to know more: What is the purpose of the March? Is there an agenda? It is called a “Women’s March,” but is it for women only? (No.) Is the March “anti-Trump? (No.) Or even a protest? (Also no.) For a short while, though enthusiastic, many wondered how and if organizers would even be able to pull it off. But a permit was issued and the event is not only going to happen this Saturday, but is expected to be one of America’s biggest demonstrations.

But claims that the March is a radical one don’t exactly mesh with the message put forth by organizers.

“It’s an affirmative message to the new administration that ‘women’s rights are human rights,'” Vox reported, adding that “the event is being promoted as a ‘march’ or a ‘rally,’ but emphatically not a ‘protest.'”

Organizers’ insistence that the March doesn’t protest anything in particular could be interpreted as an effort to bring together as many people as possible.

Indeed, one organizer, Bob Bland, told the Washington Post:

“We welcome our male allies. We want this to be as inclusive as possible while acknowledging that it’s okay to have a women-centered march.”

(Despite the fact men have been heartily encouraged to attend, some still managed to feel left out.)

It’s odd to call something a “Women’s March” when it’s not really just for women, but the problems with the event extend far beyond that. Saying a thing is “woman-centered” is one thing, but actually centering women is another. The Women’s March, in their efforts to be “as inclusive as possible” have avoided naming the problem, leaving feminists to wonder how exactly the problem will be addressed, if we can’t even speak it out loud.

In their official platform, organizers do mention “violence,” stating:

“Women deserve to live full and healthy lives, free of violence against our bodies. One in three women have been victims of some form of physical violence by an intimate partner within their lifetime; and one in five women have been raped.”

But the perpetrators of this violence are notably absent from the document. Not once do the authors of the Women’s March platform acknowledge that it is men who are responsible for the violence suffered by women and girls across the globe. It appears that “unapologetically progressive,” in America, translates to “ensures men are neither named nor held to account.”

Further down, the authors state:

“We believe in Gender Justice. We must have the power to control our bodies and be free from gender norms, expectations and stereotypes. We must free ourselves and our society from the institution of awarding power, agency and resources disproportionately to masculinity to the exclusion of others.”

If at any point you had hoped this march would be a feminist one, here is where those hopes are dashed. “Gender justice” means precisely nothing. There is no justice where there is “gender.” Gender is the thing that naturalizes women’s oppression and men’s domination under patriarchy. If we are to be “free from gender norms, expectations, and stereotypes,” we must get rid of gender itself — that is, the notions of “masculinity” and “femininity.” The document erases biological sex and the sex class hierarchy enforced through patriarchy, lightening and neutralizing the blow by pretending as though there isn’t a particular class of people who are born into a position of power in our society (i.e. males). Based on this mealy-mouthed interpretation of patriarchy, it perhaps won’t come as a surprise that not once in the entire document is patriarchy itself named.

This is unnecessary. We can (and indeed must) name the problem and need not cater to those who wish to feel “political,” somehow, without actually saying anything controversial or directly challenging the status quo.

Just last year, Latin American women took to the streets on what was named “Black Wednesday,” to protest femicide — a word Raquel Rosario Sanchez explains is “a legal and political term that exists precisely to highlight the fact women and girls are murdered because they are female.” Though American media tried to depoliticize this radical action by applying the term “gender justice” in their reporting on Black Wednesday, the protest itself was actually unapologetic in its feminism. American activists could perhaps learn a thing or two from these protestors…

We are (supposedly) responding to the election of a man who supports the sex trade, sexual assault, domestic violence, and who doesn’t see women as human, never mind his equal, yet we are unwilling to say the word “patriarchy” or even “men”?! What exactly are we afraid of? Women have so much to lose in America — it seems like a strange time to depoliticize.

To their credit, while the platform initially stated solidarity with “sex workers’ rights movements,” implicitly rejecting survivors and abolitionists who oppose the sex industry and advocate for the Nordic model (“the sex workers’ rights movement is, in fact, a lobby to decriminalize pimps and johns — not one to protect women from men’s violence), it appears as though the language was edited.

In a later version, the language reads, “we stand in solidarity with all those exploited for sex and labour.”

women's march platform Jan 16 2017

This is a positive response to complaints from feminists, but unfortunately, while issues with the platform upset numerous women, much of the damage was already done before the document was even published. Earlier in the month the Women’s March Twitter account caused a notable backlash after tweeting about “cis privilege”:

Countless women reminded organizers that, in fact, there was no such thing as “cis privilege” when it comes to women’s status in society. Indeed the mere fact that the march is taking place should be proof enough of that. Is Donald Trump’s comment about grabbing women “by the pussy” evidence of some kind of “privilege” females are born into? Our female bodies are precisely what are under attack in a patriarchal society and within Trump’s rhetoric, worldview, and politics. His repeated misogynist insults directed at any and every woman show that attaching a term like “cis privilege” to womanhood is entirely contradictory. The word “cis” is meaningless, to start, as women do not “identify” with femininity — rather, they are socialized into it — but the notion that there is “privilege” in being a woman in this world is disproved in glaring ways by other statements made by organizers:

If we can understand that ensuring bodily autonomy is central to women’s liberation, surely we can understand and acknowledge that patriarchy is about men’s control over women’s bodies.

But the organizers seem not even to understand the difference between sex and gender, never mind the fact that “sexism” has nothing to do with what they call “cis,” but is explicitly about discrimination based on sex.

Sadly, organizers appear fearful, rather than brave — either naive or afraid to admit that patriarchy is a system that explicitly targets those of us born female, often through violence.

Rather than confront the backlash head on, they’ve catered to it — altering their language and aims in a way that dances around the problem.

Women are not targeted by men walking alone at night, in their homes, at work, in bars, or in any of the other myriad of places women are attacked, harassed, and raped, because they are passive, wear high heels, have long hair, wear dresses, or behave in other “feminine” ways, but because they are female. Female children are not prostituted or abused by adult men because they identify with “femininity,” but because of the sex class they were born into. Girls are feminized, not “feminine” by choice or because of some kind of internal, unchangeable personality flaw that turns them into victims.

While the Women’s March on Washington has been disappointing in its cowardliness and aversion to putting out an unapologetically feminist message, when feminism is the one thing we desperately need to rally around in this political climate, my aim is not to discourage women from attending. Rather, women should get out on the street with their unapologetic feminism, and use this as an opportunity to seek out sisters and solidarity. The third wave may not be here for us, but we can still be here for one another — our movement is alive and growing. One of our jobs as feminists is to keep speaking out, keep rallying, and keep pushing our message forward in the face of backlash. Our bravery can inspire the fearful.

Meghan Murphy
Meghan Murphy

Founder & Editor

Meghan Murphy is a freelance writer and journalist. She has been podcasting and writing about feminism since 2010 and has published work in numerous national and international publications, including New Statesman, Vice, Al Jazeera, The Globe and Mail, I-D, Truthdig, and more. Meghan completed a Masters degree in the department of Gender, Sexuality and Women’s Studies at Simon Fraser University in 2012 and lives in Vancouver, B.C. with her dog.

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  • Blazewarrior

    Obviously not ‘Womens’ March’ but ‘everyone’s march so in effect it becomes a meaningless march. The cacophony of inclusiveness ensures as usual that the male elephants in the room remain the invisible presence.

  • Liz

    Meghan, thank you! I can’t wait to re-read this glorious post 🙂 But I had to comment to thank you for writing it.

    I think the news reports being mistaken and reiterating that the march is pro-choice is to do with this article: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/01/pro-lifers-womens-march/513104/
    Here’s the part I mean specifically (sorry for the huge quote):

    For their part, the organizers say pro-lifers will be welcome to march on January 21st. A pro-life group based in Texas, New Wave Feminists, was granted partnership status on Friday. “Intersectional feminism is the future of feminism and of this movement,” said Bob Bland, one of the event’s co-chairs. “We must not just talk about feminism as one issue, like access to reproductive care.” (On Monday afternoon, after the publication of this article, the Women’s March organizers removed the New Wave Feminists from their website and list of partners. “The Women’s March’s platform is pro-choice and that has been our stance from day one,” the organizers said in a statement. “The anti-choice organization in question is not a partner of the Women’s March on Washington. We apologize for this error.”)

    I have been wishy-washy about attending even though I made my plans the week after the election. you covered every reason for my lack of enthusiasm. I finally started to get excited yesterday, when I made my sign. My sign has the word PATRIARCHY on it, you bet it does. On the other side, the women’s power symbol.

    I was thinking of another idea: taking a bag of granola bars with addresses of feminist websites taped to the wrappers. If I do, would it be OK to include http://www.feministcurrent.com?

    OK back to the top to read it again 🙂

    edited to add: oh and those damned pussy hats the fun feminists are trying to make happen…I would not be caught dead in one. they make women look like infants.

    • Meghan Murphy

      Yes, they included the New Wave Feminists on their list of partners, but after a bunch of liberal feminists like Jessica Valenti et al tweeted about this angrily, they removed them as a partner and said it was an ‘error.’ Liberal feminists care a lot about women’s right to access abortion, but refuse to acknowledge women’s biology has anything to do with our oppression, apparently…

      I’m so glad you are excited to go and that you are naming patriarchy on your sign! I like your granola bar idea! Feel free to include us 🙂

      • Independent Radical

        Liberals don’t care about women’s right to abortion. They don’t even have the guts to say the word. They only about the abstract right of women to “do what they want with their bodies” and they chat that mantra without thinking.

        Besides many equate abortion access with “sexual liberation”, even though they have little to do with each other really. Lack of abortion access does not stop women from carrying out whatever “liberated” sex acts liberals want them to perform. Liberal women care too much about short term fun to worry about whether they are going to be able to abort the foetus they might get pregnant with if they have vaginal intercourse. Then there’s the fact that the more aggressive and degrading practices (though vaginal intercourse isn’t exactly a picnic to begin with) liberals have substituted in place of it don’t even get you pregnant. Unfortunately the “sexual liberation” cause will not suffer from lack of access to abortion rights.

        Nobody has the guts to defend women’s rights not to have babies and not to play the role of a traditional mother, lest they offend women who base their entire sense of identity on that role. I understand that pregnancy and childbirth are, at the moment, necessary for the continuation of the species, but I don’t find them at all glamorous and the expectations that women spend the rest of their lives being sweet and self-sacrificing are they give birth is oppressive. The abortion rights movement should acknowledge this, since the procedure isn’t about women “controlling their bodies”, it’s about ending a pregnancy. The feminist movement could use with a dose of brutal honesty.

        • Meghan Murphy

          Yeah, they act like they’re drawing a hard line, but their actual politics around reproductive justice and women’s liberation are basically nil. Like, REALLY, Jessica Valenti??!?! https://twitter.com/JessicaValenti/status/821070134949408769 https://twitter.com/JessicaValenti/status/821071657943072769

          • radwonka

            LOOOOOOOL

            hypocrites!!!

        • northernTNT

          Not just so-called “liberals”. Feminists that came before us also gave up on the right to abortion the minute it became a matter of “choosing” instead of our access to abortion, because “choosing” in a choice feminism world, is much more important than saying those “dirty” words. The word choice replaced the word abortion, but it suited the powers that be, but it made women lose ground, not gain ground. Roe vs Wade was a ridiculous and weak decision.

        • Alienigena

          “I understand that pregnancy and childbirth are, at the moment, necessary for the continuation of the species, but I don’t find them at all glamorous and the expectations that women spend the rest of their lives being sweet and self-sacrificing are they give birth is oppressive.”

          Completely agree. Thanks for saying this.

    • Feminist Reprise

      Oh goodness gracious, I went to a “women’s” event on Saturday night and several people who saw me knitting just had to tell me they were going home to make pussy hats. Barf.

      • FierceMild

        I cannot imagine anything that would induce me to wear a facsimile of my vulva on my head. What could the point possibly be?

        • Wren

          I only support it cause it’s gonna piss off the trans and something about it seems young and earnest. But I wouldn’t do it.

          • FierceMild

            Gigglesnort. That’s true.

    • Cassandra

      This was in Elle magazine online, of all places, in regard to the hat thing:

      “Of course, not everyone is into Barbie-colored cat ears. “I feel like we’re missing the point a little bit by making this into something cutesy,” says Holly Derr, a writer and director who’s put on several productions of the Vagina Monologues and specializes in performances of gender. “I totally understand the desire to make a strong visual statement, but I think that many women marching together is already a strong visual statement.” A more effective effort, Derr says, could have invited women to each knit a hat that looks like her own vagina—literally. “I always welcome that,” she says. “Because the more distance we put between ourselves and our bodies, the easier it is to violate them.” Derr envisions hundreds of thousands of “maybe hair and grizzly” vagina hats.”

      Boy are the trans activists gonna get her! But at least she wasn’t censored from saying the truth in a fun fem light publication like Elle.

      A friend of mine knitted me one. She means well and she’s young so I’m glad to see her caring at all. I hadn’t heard of it so I was kinda like this:

      http://giphy.com/gifs/TvvYw2Be5H1ao/html5

    • susannunes

      That outfit is another phony “feminist” outfit like “Feminists for Life.” They actually think that forced pregnancy is a form of power over men so that men can’t walk away.

      The nitwits completely conflate the “sexual revolution” with the women’s movement. They have nothing to do with each other.

      • Meghan Murphy

        Yeah I checked out the site — they seem ridiculous.

  • Lucia Lola

    Yes. Ever mindful of “stroking” those who matter most to them.

  • Zuzanna Smith

    Sanitized for your (male) protection. If I was going then it would definitely be to protest.

  • anne cameron

    Could someone please help me…I’m nearly 80 years old and probably out of touch but.. WTF is “cis” anyway? Surely not an abbreviation of “sister”…that would be “sis”…

    • eRuthe

      It means when you identify with your biological gender. A cis woman is a biological woman who also lives her life as a woman, I.e. not a transwoman. It’s to avoid saying real woman or normal woman which would imply that transwomen are neither.

      • Meghan Murphy

        Gender isn’t biological. Gender is socialized. “Cis” would mean that a female identifies with femininity.

      • Morag999

        There it is again and again. “Imply”? Nobody is “implying” that men cannot become women, you fool. This is a fact.

      • susannunes

        You don’t “identify” as male or female. You ARE one or the other, rare exceptions proving the binary rule of mammalian reproduction. This is one reason why the trans movement is a bunch of gaslighting bullshit.

        HATE the term “biological woman.” There is only ONE KIND of woman, the one with the reproductive equipment that potentially conceives and bears offspring.

        There is no such thing as a “transwoman.” I REFUSE to use the term. They are accurately called crossdressers or men in dresses.

      • FierceMild

        Transwomen are male, as in, not real or normal women. you can say that you think a man in a dress and garish lipstick who feels super submissive is exactly the same thing as a woman but I won’t believe you because You would be lying. You know it’s not the same.

    • Anne, yes, exactly. Stupid opaque terms that don’t mean anything you can imagine.

      They use “cis” to mean “not-trans” (which is not how the chemists use it, which is the other major modern usage of those prefixes). Transgender (transsexual in Ye Olde Days) refers to people who think of themselves as not their biological/anatomical sex. The idea being, I guess, that there’s a cross-linkage, hence trans.

      Cis is used to mean biological sex and the-gender-you-think-you-are go together, are lined up on the same side, hence “cis.”

      In practice, cis is often thrown out to mean “not-as-cool-and-special-snowflakey as me.”

      Yes, I’m tired of the whole thing. I’m not tired of human rights and equal rights and everyone having every right to whatever sex they’d like to have. But I’m super tired of the whole performance of virtue and demand for special treatment. Usually at the expense of women. Any demands being made that might cost men an ounce of effort are amazingly quiet.

    • cday881@gmail.com

      “cis” is from Latin for “on the same side of” (as opposed to trans “on the opposite side of”) in this context means being the gender that matches one’s sex. Many of the people on this site oppose that use of the term, as they view gender itself as problematic.

  • Cassandra

    Excellent as always, Meghan.

    I wish I was surprised about this. Unfortunately this march is the march form of feminism today. Full of sound and fury and signifying nothing.

  • eRuthe

    I came across one of the women’s marches in south America when I was out with my young daughter. It was amazing. The whole city stopped for it, and there were all kinds of women, young and old, some in costume, some playing music, some with pictures of dead people, some in wheelchairs, babies, men, men dressed as women. There was a message against domestic violence but it was about strength in numbers and about the different ways to be. I felt so proud, even as a foreigner, and so glad my daughter could see it. Best wishes to all the women of America!

    • northernTNT

      But still, it accomplished nothing yes…
      Marches don’t achieve anything. Systems must be stopped, and marches do not stop systems.

  • FierceMild

    Please post pictures for the rest of us to see!

  • radwonka

    Pro patriarchal stereotypes and pro patriarchal institutions March!

    That dude who controls the twitter account seems to be a 12 year old from tumblr.

    “cis be mindful about your privileges”

    lmao, when politics use meditation vocabulary, you can already tell that the movement is going to be useleeeeeess

    Pro male domination females often complained about feminism being too “exclusive” (they still dont understand that you cant be pro patriarchy and anti patriarchy at the same time. They demonized feminist for having boundaries while letting patriarchy be stereotyped af. Really hypocritical.), and now they have a movement called Womens March where there are three strict politics: being pro prostitution, pro degradation and pro gender (since the only “agency” that matters are those that support womens inferiority). So I guess that they cant say stuff like “you dont let EVERY women be a feminist!!!! feminism is thus anti women!!!” anymore.

    Even if they seem to finally admit that politics have delimited goals, I bet that besides victimizing themselves, they still have no solid arguments lmao

    and ofc, they dont offer any alternatives for fighting capitalism. So many people yet so few solutions. Nowadays libertarians organize march, but they arent even able to offer pragmatic alternatives. Whats the point of this rly???

    ““We believe in Gender Justice. We must have the power to control our
    bodies and be free from gender norms, expectations and stereotypes. We
    must free ourselves and our society from the institution of awarding
    power, agency and resources disproportionately to masculinity to the
    exclusion of others.””

    omg I have an headache now.

    • Wren

      It’s so boring. It’s like a prelude to kumbaya.

  • Marla

    I’ve had mixed feelings about this march. There’s too much interference for one and two, the whole ideal seems to be supported by the pseudo-left who want to corporatize feminist in order to fit snugly into another mold of their own political agenda(s). I have always been weary of organizers who base who base protest on all-inclusiveness and hook-and-slogan t-shirt profundity that puts everyone into a clique rather than anything the derives itself from the consciousness of feminism itself.

    Why this march lacks a name is because it has no meaning other than to being forth feminist on a emotional level so they can be pacified and sequestered for whenever and wherever such pseudo-left groups need to use them. No question the Trump Administration (such as it is) is hellbent to destroy women’s health care, and by health care I mean abortion because abortion is women’s health care. Yet that subject is too ugly, too grisly to openly talk about by so-called supporters of feminism so rather it become buried and titles like “Gender Justice” rise up to take its place. I don’t know why, but there is a line from a Dead Kennedy’s tune running in my head that goes:

    “What better way to turn people off than to twist ideas for change into one more church that forgets we’re all human beings.”

    And that what this march signifies to me. Sure, Trump is an asshole who is about to wage an all-out war on women, but god damn it, the feelings of the gender justice must come first.

    Quoting violence statistics against women is one thing but never to give those same woman a human face (lack of a better term) is quite another. If the organizers actually showed what violence has done to women from anything from permanently losing their eyesight to being crippled for life it would force the patriarchy that they so embolden to take a serious look at themselves. Show me a transmale who feels biologically cheated and I’ll show you a biologic female in a ICU fighting for dear life.

    • Wren

      “Show me a transmale who feels biologically cheated and I’ll show you a biologic female in a ICU fighting for dear life.”

      TRUTH!! Put that on a banner and march it on the mall.

      • Marla

        Thank you but I didn’t know where I was going with that. I’ll admit I’m relatively new to feminism and unfortunately my introduction was though the pseudo-left “third wave” nonsense where feminism only has rank as long as it identifies itself with personal attitude – you know, all the omni/pan-trans/mono/queer/poly what.the.fuck.ever that really eschews feminist ideals in favor for narcissism. It didn’t take me long to understand the third wave (which I guess now is the “new wave”? – how does one keep up?) denies any attribute to the human condition of women such as imbued violence that has resulted in irreversible psychical, emotional, and psychological damage which in a lot of cases leads to death.

        I guess I get triggered too easily when I see these pseudo-left organizations sticking their bloated head(s) in the sand choosing ignorance over humility. Yes, one can make for the argument that they are aware of the problem as they quote disturbing statistics of violence that has been directly aimed towards women but are there any trans/poly/mono whatever that actually take a stand or are they too busy with self-victimization of how “transphobic” the world is because a certain fashion designer doesn’t make a shoe in their size or, on a more personal note, I’m not too cool being alone in a public restroom with one?

        Maybe there are some but I’ve yet to see a trans/queer – oh fuck it, those terms just get exasperating to type – hold up a sign of a biological woman who just lost her sight due to retinal detachment caused by blunt trauma of being repeatedly punched in the face or push one in a wheelchair in these bullshit “inclusive” marches because her boyfriend broke her spine. And no, I’m not going for any drama card here but as James Brown once said it’s a transmale world…but it wouldn’t be anything without a woman or a girl.” Okay, he didn’t actually quite say that but I fear that what is what’s happening in theses marches – using violence that so many woman have endured and piggybacking on it some personal plight all because they can’t find a god damn shoe that fits them?

        I’m not discounting or disassociating the fact that many transmales have suffered tremendous violence and that there are some in the Trump Administration have openly stated their disgust and outright hatred for anyone who doesn’t fit their warped 1950’s-era Father Knows Best American suburban nuclear family archetype which, lets face it, was a myth to begin with. I do not doubt that such attacks towards transmales may increase under Trump but to forego that violence being dispensed at woman won’t also increase or that it’s not as alarming is downright offensive.

        That’s the problem I have with the pseudo-left and Womensmarch is another pseudo-left organization where affluence and political gain are their true goals. From what I’ve read about them, they’re certainly not in it for the women.

        • FierceMild

          The Left hates women just as hard as the Right. Public property vs private property but always owned.

  • Wren

    Good! I’m too afraid I’ll end up in a fight.

    • Michele Currie

      Yes! This is one of the reasons I am staying home. I definitely would “engage” with a redneck asshole.

  • Wren

    Hey Meghan! I finally updated my Paypal and am giving you mucho dinero! Not really, but I hope it helps. I love FC. This shit is priceless.
    xoxo

    • Meghan Murphy

      Thanks sister! We are so grateful.

  • FierceMild

    I think this should be renamed the: “pardon me, I’d like to apologize? Maybe it would be okay if you don’t rape me?” March for people who just feel upset but don’t want to point fingers or judge anyone or anything ever.

    That’s it!

    The March Lacking Judgment.

    • radwonka

      not really since they do judge radical feminism 😛

      they are much more moralists than us 😉

      • FierceMild

        Sitting serenely in the throne of non-judgment casting a jaundice eye at the TERF-y radfems. A male approved sport.

  • genny

    I probably check this site three times a day, thirsting for new commentary by Meghan. Im relatively new to radfem, and I spend lots of time reading the archives. I truly feel empowered for the first time in my life because of Feminist Current!

    • FierceMild

      Welcome! I’m newish as well.

  • John Stuart Mill

    Well of course a male like Janet Mock who praises the men who trafficked him into prostitution as a young teen (RAPE for money) is not only in denial but ready to facilitate the pimps, traffickers & madams who exploit other young people in prostitution (RAPE for money.) Stockholm syndrome. He’s in so much denial it’s truly, truly pathetic. As a child rape survivor let me make it crystal clear that NO YOUNG PERSON wants to be sexually exploited. It’s gross, terrifying, dangerous, disgusting, damaging and vile. Most prostitutes are “introduced” at 14 or younger. Many can only get through the day by becoming alcoholics or drug addicts. There is NOTHING feminist about pretending that prostitution is merely “sex work” or that women should “support sex workers” in their self-destructive, female-destructive, child-destructive “trade”. We should put 100% of our efforts into helping them EXIT prostitution – and prosecuting johns, pimps, madams and human traffickers to the full extent of the law.

    • FierceMild

      You’re right, also, I like your screen name.

  • Dar Guerra

    The two new ideological attacks on women: “There is no hierarchy of “oppressions”. And “Feminism is a movement to liberate everybody.”

  • John Stuart Mill

    I encourage you and others to go with a sign that states a CLEAR feminist message – something like “Smash the Patriarchy” or “Name the Problem: Male Violence” or “Trump is a Sexual Predator”. We need to stop tip-toeing around male egos, especially the male egos of our “transwomen” overlords like fricking Janet Mock who retain 100% of their male entitlement and male socialization no matter how many stilettos they buy or how much makeup they wear.

  • John Stuart Mill

    Go with friends and carry signs that say: “NO Males in Women’s Showers” or “We are Not Cis – We are Women”. We need to engage with this nonsense and refuse to be intimidated.

  • Cassandra

    Gropenfuhurer. A+++

  • Meghan Murphy

    Third wave intern is my guess.

  • Tired feminist

    Fun idea: radfems create some kind of code (a specific word or symbol on a sign, or even a specific T-shirt color) to recognize each other and stay together… 😉

  • northernTNT

    A few years ago, there was the million man march on Washington. It is was a useless endeavour, only valuable to those who participated, making them feel good about themselves, as are most of such ridiculous events.

  • eRuthe

    I was just defining the term, not expressing an opinion. I appreciate your response though. I agree that the idea of identifying as a woman has problems.

    • FierceMild

      So do you think it’s possible for a man to become a woman?

  • Tired feminist

    Exactly. Like I said in another thread, no one outside the internet (and, apparently, even on it!) seems to actually *believe* in gender identity. People know that transwomen aren’t ‘just like other women’, they are just playing the progressive game as they’ve been taught to.

    • Aylune B. Papyrus

      If you think about it the term “transwomen” is really transphobic because it posits “transwomen” as different from biological females.

  • eRuthe

    Haha yeah

  • Tired feminist

    LOL at ‘gender crack’ 😀

  • northernTNT

    In these matters, Canadians have become even worse.

  • northernTNT

    I thought the march was ridiculous the moment they announced it. It is utterly pointless.

  • susannunes

    A psychiatrist would have a field day with somebody like Charlie Mock. He is one screwed-up dude. I wouldn’t be surprised he went through the surgical mutilations and hormone treatments as a way to deal with having been abused as a male prostitute. The self-loathing by this dude is obvious.

  • cday881@gmail.com
    • Meghan Murphy

      I thought Bob Bland was a woman?

      • cday881@gmail.com

        Yes, I believe she is a woman

      • skilletblonde

        She is. Apparently, she changed her name, and refuses to reveal her old name.

        • Meghan Murphy

          Weird.

  • Rachael

    Brilliant article, Meghan! I’m tired of all of this watered down, width-washy bullshit. Of this bizarre fear that women have to add disclaimers and qualifiers and post-scripts to every stance they take just in case it offends someone it excludes them. That’s not our job, that’s not what feminism is, and it certainly isn’t what a women’s march should be about!

    It’s as if some guys had a little meeting and decided to “allow” women to have a march about a whole bunch of nothing in order to give them something to focus their energy into so they won’t be a bother for a while, and they’ll go home placated that they “made a stand.”

    Sad thing is, for many women that’s probably what it will be. Thank god for Feminist Current!

  • Meghan Murphy

    Yep.

  • Meghan Murphy

    You got it.

  • radwonka

    and men dont even need lame concepts such as “agency” to justify their behavior. lol

  • Amy Luna Manderino

    I agree. Name the problem: socialized toxic masculinity that normalizes bullying and gaslighting and socialized toxic femininity that normalizes enabling bullying and gaslighting.

    Patriarchy cannot exist without male bullies and female enablers.

    • Tired feminist

      You know, you can actually drop the ‘socialized toxic’ part because it’s redundant…

  • radwonka

    ” It’s a neoliberal post modern all inclusive”

    neoliberal post modern patriarchy*

    once again they prove that they arent that inclusive since they can only defend patriarchal roles 🙂

  • radwonka

    Semantics dont change or create facts.

  • Meghan Murphy

    I really doubt anyone here would mind your friend using the women’s washroom…. I think the issue for radical feminists is more about the concept of gender identity itself, as well as males taking over/demanding access to women’s spaces and speaking on behalf of women/the feminist movement. I don’t personally care if passing transwomen use the women’s washroom and I certainly don’t care if males with dysphoria dress, act, look like women…

    • FierceMild

      Nope, that’s all fine. It’s saying they are women and insisting that they can use locker rooms and change rooms and women’s prisons and shelters that isn’t okay.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Huh? Which comment?

    • Richard Rich

      The comment went something like what I just posted about renaming this event the “Shieldmaiden’s March on Washington”, and I bet the air that I breathe the people organizing this “all-inclusive” event eat well and live relatively comfortable compared to females of all ages who can’t “identify” their way out of pregnancy, violence, poverty, exploitation, and marginalization. I also made the point that I don’t “identify” with masculinity because I am surrounded by it daily living in the projects, therefore making me “gender nonconforming”

      BTW, I’m just speaking in frustration and I may have misjudged you, so for that I apologize. Like I said, I grow skeptical of white folks. I’m sorry of if that sounds bigoted and divisive. And for some reason a few of my more “radical” comments never make it to moderation, and I assume that this was because they were too abusive or offensive to post on a feminist website.

      • Meghan Murphy

        I’m just confused because I have never deleted any of your comments… I will look for it again though, in case it was somehow deleted by accident? Are you certain they were posted?

        • Richard Rich

          Might as well rename this event the Shieldmaiden’s March on Washington and replace the female symbol (♀) with some tacky “multiple gender” chickenscratch. I bet the air that I breathe the people organizing this event eat well and live comfortably compared to the majority of females who don’t have the luxury of “identifying” their way out of violence, poverty, exploitation, marginalization, and pregnancy.

          The only privilege I’ll be mindful of is my male privilege. I don’t identify with masculinity since I am surrounded by it daily living in the projects, so in that regard I am “gender nonconforming”. And I’m sick of the mid to upper-class and their duplicity. Nothing is ever going to change for the better if something isn’t done about these people, be it the politicians, media moguls and event organizers, or faux-feminists parroting “choice” and postmodernism. Ditto for the johns and MRAs.

          My comment was detected as Spam (smh…). Seriously, I apologize for wasting yours and everyone else’s time and energy here. As a man I am out of line with my aggression and racist accusations, and between both of us you can feel free to delete this specific comment and this entire comment thread so it doesn’t take up space on your website, or even ban me if you wish. Nobody else (besides those who have already read my initial inflammatory comment) has to know about my outbursts and mea culpas.

          I am also relatively new to the concepts of socialism and class struggle, so I have started to get a bit angry and cynical in my words. Especially when I never looked at the world through a radical lens prior to visiting your website and educating myself through Feminism.

          • JingFei

            Yeah, don’t worry so much. Radical feminists can actually take and hear opinions (so long as they are articulate and educated). I’ve rarely seen anyone here jump on a male commenter without really good cause ( such as, a male who jumps in defending prostitution because it’s feminist, when he has obviously has no facts and has never cared in his life).
            I for one, respect and appreciate honest, if spirited discussion.

            And we’ve all rage-typed before lol.

      • Meghan Murphy

        Ah ha! I found two of your comments, which I approved, but that were ‘deleted by the user’ somehow… Unfortunately I’m not able to restore comments that are deleted by the user, but feel free to repost? https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/e29d5f7dfc3c7cac52764ba118316796bb47ba826a65489b2173f948d09e3817.png

  • Marla

    “And then this bullshit about how it’s not a protest, it’s a rally. It’s not about women opposing trump, it’s about everyone avoiding politics. This apolitical liberal cowardice.”

    That’s exactly how these pseudo-left organizations function. The endgame of Womensmarch is to pacify women, put them in a nice pen and instruct them to play along with everyone or face the risk of some ostracizing label they they created in order to feel good about themselves.

  • Tired feminist

    ‘White feminism’ is not a thing. At least not in the way liberals frame it, i.e. ‘white’ vs. ‘intersectional’.

    • Richard Rich

      I misspoke out of ignorance and frustration. And I’ve seen “White Feminism” and it ain’t pretty.

      Try more classist, pan-Aryan/neo-fascist, anti-Semitic rhetoric about how “muds” (pejorative term for minorities) all want to single out white women to rape and abuse (and I’m not saying these cases of sexual violence don’t occur), and less Patriarchy Theory and accountability for the class of people (white males) who stand by and allow this to happen because they are no different than the “lesser races” in their hatred of females.

  • FierceMild

    I agree with the same caveat as Tired Feminist.

  • FierceMild

    Ha! You’re funny.

  • FierceMild

    Ahem meeemeeemeemee, and AAAAAAAAAAAAAGHGHGH!!!!!
    Thank you.

  • FierceMild

    You are so right!! The Trump is a sex worker…maybe that’s why they listened to him.

  • Richard Rich

    I think the Disqus system is trying to censor my comments. I have already issued three apologies for my behavior towards you which was aggressive, racist, and inflammatory, along with trying to reiterate my points about this so-called Women’s March being a classist, reactionary front for male supremacy, and they all got marked with Spam, along with a myriad of other comments I posted on previous articles.

    • Meghan Murphy

      I just found a bunch your comments in spam and liberated them! I’m so sorry about that…

      • Richard Rich

        I’ll try to keep my cool for now on. Again, please forgive my cynicism and frustration, and most importantly my distraction of the general topic. And I apologize to the rest of the women here to for wasting their time with my pettiness.

        BTW, I never thought I’d be saying this but socialism is needed (as little as I know of it), even though implementing this type of system sounds easier said than done given it’s negative connotations. “Third Wave Feminism” and “progressivism” are just smokescreens used to divert from the fact that the political Left in the West has been completely co-opted by the bourgeois. Even though you probably know this already.

  • Meghan Murphy

    I think her analysis is radical but I also think she is trying to avoid being attacked… http://www.advocate.com/commentary/2013/10/02/op-ed-working-together-over-time

    If you read her interview in the NatGeo “Gender Revolution” issue, you’ll see her hinting at exactly what radical feminists have always said about gender, without getting herself into hot water. She’s treading a fine line that would feel intolerable to me, personally, but I suppose I understand she’s trying to maintain alliances with people she wants to continue to be able to work with…

  • Leo

    Possibly that sounded unduly harsh to you. In case this is clearer, I’m worn out with:

    – the idea women (and it is usually women this is required of) are mean, cruel, unfair, if they simply act normally instead of denying reality when and as men require it. This is abusive and plays on our socialisation, as it’s hard for us not to feel guilty and as though we’re indeed being unfair despite that we’re just acting as is usual, and the goalposts are always shifted. Being honest and knowing reality is not cruel, and it’s not automatically being cruel to people not to lie to them, indeed doing so may well be so.
    – the basic image/stereotype of men, what a man is, making it sound as though they’re some kind of grunting neanderthals, which is so regressive it would confuse people in the 14th century, never mind now. This does seem to be a US thing primarily, but I’m not sure how their construct of masculinity ended up so very extreme.
    – the idea of the ‘good transwoman’. Of someone who passes as female sufficiently, and appears to conform to femininity sufficiently in looks and/or behaviour (with this being loosely defined), as to deserve special consideration from women, and treatment as a woman. Passing is not fully within their control and pushes people towards medicalisation, hormones, surgery. The construct of femininity is used to oppress women. It seems to make being treated a certain way (why should women be treated a certain way, other than as females?) and regarded as a proper woman into a reward/punishment contingent on certain appearance/behaviours. This is already familiar enough to actual women (females) as a typical patriarchal tactic – how often do feminists get told we’re like men and not proper women as a way of abusing us? Including abuse based on appearance and looking a way that’s regarded as ‘male’? Whereas I am not referring to transwomen as men because of how they look or act, because I don’t like them or like them, these things are entirely irrelevant, but because they ARE males, men. Anything else misrepresents our politics. It doesn’t matter if I personally very much like, or cannot stand, an individual transperson, if they have dysphoria, then I’ll make the conditional offer to use the wrong pronouns (or neutral ones) for them as a way to help them cope as required, but I will not do so in a blanket fashion (automatically for all transpeople) or based on unfair conditions, only on the basis of actual present distress. This also avoids treating them as though they will always feel the way they do and as though there’s no hope for improvement. Otherwise it’s not fair to those with dysphoria, and it’s not fair to women.

  • Aylune B. Papyrus

    But the sharpest there ever was 😉

  • Aylune B. Papyrus

    Right, I forgot. Gender identity is the essence of the core of the hot mantle of our inner selves and it’s literally the most important thing in the world and it tastes even better than hummus, BUT THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE WHO DON’T HAVE ONE OR DONT CARE AND THAT’S TOTALLY COOL.

    So how should we phrase it ? “all genders and genderless people ?” But then genderless people become marginalized and posited as not-normal and we should have a term like “gendered people” to counter “agender” so that “agenders” aren’t seen as abnormal.

    Am I getting this right ?

    • FierceMild

      You’re an artist!

  • FierceMild

    The largest group of impoverished people in the USA is white women. Go figure.

  • Anthocerotopsida

    Yup. One of the main reasons I’m determined to go to the march is for the off chance that I might meet some like-minded ladies. There’s a good chance, I think, that some pro-woman organizing could start in earnest that day.
    I’m also worried, as someone else said in this thread, that I’ll meet some opponents and start a fight. Hope it doesn’t come to that.

  • Anthocerotopsida

    I just asked some very feminist men and they said that they aren’t into militant feminists. They said you’d be prettier if you lost the gun and got a boob job, you know *because you want to for yourself*. Hope that helps!

  • Meghan Murphy

    It’s really too bad they involved Janet Mock. I guess they wanted a celebrity… Lame.

  • Tired feminist

    Haha, yes. Sorry Dworkin, even the most brilliant minds get something wrong at times.

  • eRuthe

    Special law? I thought there used to be no laws about it, that it was a matter of individual discretion. Is that not the case?

  • genny

    Speaking as a former libfem myself, I view them as the enemy of all women. Worse than men, traitors to their own kind. I dumped all of my libfem friends when i found radfem. I just couldn’t be friends with women i view as intellectually lazy and cruel to other women. I just wish there were more radfems around these days to be friends with. We’re a dying breed.

    • Cassandra

      It’s my very important opinion that we aren’t a dying breed but rather we are in hibernation. I think some shit’s gonna hit the fan someday (we hope sooner rather than later) because when I open up about my politics to other women they almost always agree. We’ve just been bullied into submission. For now.

  • Wren

    I am so sick of this. Sex segregated facilities shouldn’t become archaic because of someone’s decision to pretend to be a different sex than what they actually are. That decision has ramifications, and they have to suck it up. If they pass and no one notices in the women’s bathroom, then nothing will happen. But many don’t pass, and they certainly will have a hard time passing in a locker room.

    I think it’s cruel and inappropriate that you don’t give a shit about safe spaces for women and girls. And this:
    “People keep saying that they personally wouldn’t mind about transwomen using women’s bathrooms, but…”

    Women don’t say that because they don’t want to “do the dirty work” of keeping men out of women’s bathrooms. Women say that because they are afraid of getting attacked by people like you for saying that they want to keep men out of women’s bathrooms. Duh.

    • eRuthe

      So how would you enforce it?

    • eRuthe

      People are afraid of being attacked by me? When have I said anything that’s even remotely attacking anyone?

      • Wren

        Please see Morag999’s post above.

    • Morag999

      “Sex segregated facilities shouldn’t become archaic because of someone’s decision to pretend to be a different sex than what they actually are. That decision has ramifications, and they have to suck it up.”

      Right, exactly. We didn’t create transgenderism and we didn’t ask for any of this.

      But along comes a nice woman to tell us that it’s our job, as women, to suck it up. To suck it up without “policing” (oh, puke) someone’s sex. To suck it up without being “cruel and inappropriate” to men who just want to make pee-pee in the ladies’ toilets. To suck it up without expecting “someone else” to keep girls’ and women’s safer from the reach of male pervs and predators. I mean, why can’t we just take on our female responsibilities with gentle loving kindness and look deeply into a man’s tortured soul to discover whether he means us any harm?

      Un-fucking-believable. I go from rage to despair and back to rage again.

    • eRuthe

      A hard time passing. So, we’re going to rely on women checking each other out and reporting those whose features seem masculine? Yep. That seems fairly awful.
      Do you really want that happening in “safe” spaces? What about biological women with facial hair and other masculine features. Aren’t you worried they’ll get policed in the crossfire? I am.
      Of course I care about women’s safe spaces. I went to a girls school. I Iove women only environments and also I think they’re important.
      I’m just raising issues that occur to me. Maybe there are good answers to my questions. I hope so. It’s not meant as an attack on people, but obviously people are taking it that way so maybe this the wrong place for me to raise these issues.

  • Anthocerotopsida

    Thanks for the advice. I’m taking precautions to avoid, um, unseemly behavior. Asking my buddies to keep an eye on me, no alcohol, etc. I want to be a good representative for feminism.

  • Wren

    This is the most convoluted answer to a very simple question:
    “So do you think it’s possible for a man to become a woman?”
    NO.

    He can pretend to be, but we don’t have to support his fantasy. And you can entertain these thoughts as much as you want, but you sound crazy.

    And it is absolutely NOT analogous to the difference between an adoptive mother and a biological one. What the hell does that have to do with it???

    • eRuthe

      Ikr

    • eRuthe

      It’s analogous in that the word “mother” is like “woman” in that it has multiple meanings, including social roles and biological characteristics.

  • dandelionseed

    Apparently the real problem with the pink hats is that they’re transphobic. I’m assuming marching orders will soon go out that, in order to be inclusive, women must now all unravel.
    https://bitchmedia.org/article/pink-flag-what-message-do-pussy-hats-really-send

    • Meghan Murphy

      lol

  • radwonka

    I bet they are going to talk about: slut shaming and slut walk, empowering degradation, female brain, pole dancing, how to be sexay, how to depoliticize gendered roles, “MY CHOOOOIICCCEE”, terfs etc lmao

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/2850bc9d93c789a41d85a088070ca50ffc8232a19473d976c295f76c56740375.gif

    • Just Passing Through

      Yep… that is exactly what it will be like. Did we really ever think any different? The minute I even heard the words “women’s march” I knew the pomoliberalgenderqueerpoledanceyourwaytoliberationsexworkisworktranswomenarewomen crowd would take it over… too predictable at this point.

      • yummymoussaka

        I’m a bit apprehensive about whether it’d be like that, but I intend to go see for myself.

        If nothing else, I would love it if the sheer number of people turning up scares the shit out of the orange one and his cronies.

        I know the organizers have their whole set of ideas on what this march is supposed to be, but I’m blatantly disregarding them, and I’m likely not the only one.

  • Meghan Murphy

    oh ffs

  • Leo

    Well, for starters, I wouldn’t be enabling perfectly healthy people to harm their bodies with unnecessary hormones and surgery, because it’s medically irresponsible. This would have the side-effect of solving most of the potential confusion – they’re usually not just naturally passing.

    I don’t think it needs actively policed, though, just for the bills saying they can use the opposite sex bathroom and so on to be ditched. Might some passing transpeople continue to use that bathroom, maybe, but it’s hopefully not an issue if they do (if you really really wanted maybe if they’ve already changed their legal sex designation, they could keep that status. Also providing sex neutral bathrooms might be an option in some cases), should resolve the issue of it being allowed for school bathrooms and changing rooms (as in this context the biological sex is on record and it’s not being dishonestly changed), and more importantly they would not be placed in women’s prisons etc. ‘Policing’ doesn’t even require any sort of constant vigilance approach, just a slap on the wrist (don’t think it automatically deserves more than that, and I don’t mean from actual police either unless there has been an issue, but it’d allow teachers, locker room staff to respond to a complaint etc) if people get actually caught ignoring the laws/rules, rather than being expected to allow them to use opposite sex facilities and services. Active enforcement is just not required.

    After all, at present a man could use the women’s facilities if he wanted to, the expectation that he oughtn’t just allows women to respond, and for staff (in a bar) etc to go shoo him out. They could theoretically get this wrong as-is, doesn’t mean it doesn’t work as a rule of thumb and that it hasn’t protected women on occasion. It’s more about not changing it, than bringing in a bunch of brand new bathroom police. I also might not personally mind if it’s a bathroom because I don’t feel too vulnerable there, but I WOULD mind if it was a changing room.

    Of course I could have not known they were, especially with transmen perhaps, but a lot of transwomen of that age group in particular don’t pass in still images (and that’s with make-up, without it…), let alone seeing them in real life and when they open their mouths…I’m probably not missing all that many (let alone dozens ‘cos there aren’t many transpeople around in the first place. Which also really simplifies any ideas about enforcement). It doesn’t really matter if I do, though.

    Just wondering though, might the transwoman you met also have been intersex?

  • Cassandra

    “I think it’s abusive for women to be expected to deny reality…”

    You are right.

  • Cassandra

    Yeah I saw that “register” shit. I “kind of* see the point, at least for the one in NYC, because it could really turn into a shit show. They’re doing it to try to stagger the waves of people marching the route. But it certainly isn’t radical or living into the spirit of rebellion and anger, which is what this march should be about. I absolutely don’t understand and never will how all women aren’t as pissed off as we are. It boggles the mind.

  • Marla

    You put it in better words than I did.

  • Morag999

    “Suffering is good for the feminine soul?”

    Yeah, honestly. This is quasi-religious stuff of the new-age variety. Banish negativity from your thoughts. Don’t judge, because nobody is really bad, but merely possessed by “evil forces.” Be sure to wear a talisman for your own protection. Peace and love, man. Send out good vibrations …

    “Principle 5: Avoid internal violence of the spirit as well as external physical violence. The nonviolent attitude permeates all aspects of the campaign. It provides a mirror type reflection of the reality of the condition to one’s opponent and the community at large. Specific activities must be designed to maintain a high level of spirit and morale during a nonviolent campaign.”

    That, there, is a whole lotta nothing. Right? I ask, seriously: does this string of words about a “mirror type reflection of the reality of the condition to one’s opponent” mean anything at all? It comes off all shallow and glassy-eyed.

    • Anthocerotopsida

      For real! I think I just figured out why I’m not thrilled about pussy hats. I need to get in touch with my sacred feminine! I hope Women’s March can help me.
      I didn’t even touch Principle 5 precisely because it’s nonsense. But maybe also contradicts 4? In 4 we’re told to induce self-suffering, in 5 we’re told to avoid internal violence. What does any of this mean?! The more they say the less it means anything.
      Look man, women suffer whether we want to or not. Not for the alleged soul-enriching virtues of self-sacrifice, but because of the patriarchy. Remember? That thing we’re protesting?

      • will

        “women suffer whether we want to or not. Not for the alleged soul-enriching virtues of self-sacrifice, but because of the patriarchy.”

        Yes. And that foundational fact is exactly what this gobbledegook seeks to bury.

        I find the pussy hats embarrassing. I guess my sacred feminine has gone all profane or something.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Yeah it seems like she only left for a few days or something. She didn’t shut her account down or anything. I found it weird how she turned it into this big media story also, and then was still there…

  • Meghan Murphy

    Right.

  • radwonka

    “Isn’t it obvious men have agency?”

    lol where did I say that men dont have “agency”?

    I meant that “agency” is a concept that depoliticizes human behavior. It denies structures and institutions, especially cultural institutions.

    Its not a pertinent concept.

    Men dont use this concept because they dont want/dont have to justify their behavior whereas liberals use it because they know that their behavior is wrong but still want to normalize it. In other words liberals hide behind a concept.
    And thats the irony: claiming to be responsible and at the same time hiding behind a concept that infantilizes your actions…

  • eRuthe

    Not too lazy, obviously. Just that that particular aspect never seems to be discussed. Maybe I’ve missed the discussion.

  • Wren

    lol

  • pyrite00

    I bailed at the first “cis privilege” crap tweet from Women’s March. This is the first time I have seen that women need to accept suffering without retaliation garbage. Nope, nope and nope. I talk loudly, I carry a gun and I do not suffer AT ALL if I can help it. This march is just a crap fest.

  • pyrite00

    Here is the issue with Bernie — he was not a member of the Democratic Party. He could have run as a Democratic Socialist which would mean he would run independently. But he switched over the Democrat so he could TAKE ADVANTAGE of a party structure that other people gave their life’s work to build and maintain. He was a parasite, he was useless on women’s issues. Why so many people started to worship this guy who has been a do-nothing to do-little Senator for decades is still a mystery.

    • Cassandra

      Because he wasn’t Hillary. I think it was that simple.

  • pyrite00

    That is a natural process that women should never feel bad about – shrugging off the people who bring us down and sap our strength. When women realize that these constant demands from society and our enemies that we must always be “nice and caring to others” are pure gas-lighting, we will all be better off.

    Years ago I decided that I could no longer afford to give a crap about men and their problems — yes, they have lots of problems but nothing they could not fix if they really wanted to. Women are the ones with less power to fix the world to our liking so we should never carry burdens for the ungrateful and the hateful.

    • Wren

      I’m in complete agreement.

  • radwonka

    Well if he wore a dress at his wedding he must be a woman!

    Since Ive never worn a dress or make up and have short hair, I guess that I am “living as a dude” 😮

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CS7j5I6aOc

  • bevtoastily

    Sis?

    • Anthocerotopsida

      Bullethead?!

  • eRuthe

    Yes, of course you would still be a woman. Not saying you wouldn’t be.
    I said that stuff about clothes to illustrate the idea that there really are gender expectations in society and that most people conform to them. That is all.

  • eRuthe

    I haven’t expressed an opinion because I don’t have one yet. I’m trying to figure it out.
    Yes, I’d hate to get changed with men. My friend said in the male change rooms, men sit about naked on towels, cutting their toenails. I don’t want to see that. My daughter doesn’t need to see that. I would just forgo the change rooms and shower at home.

    • FierceMild

      What if your daughter wants to join a swim team, hmmmmm? What then? Because that’s exactly the point. Women and girls can just forgo the wider world and stay home because that’s what makes men more comfortable.

      HOW CAN YOU PRETEND THAT’S OKAY!

      • Alienigena

        And what about women’s spaces where women don’t have the freedom to leave (prisons) or spaces that offer women the only alternative to homelessness or a return to a violent home (e.g. women’s shelters (for women fleeing violent men)). Women in these situations have no legitimate options. Women in prison are not free to leave or simply decline to share sleeping spaces and bathrooms with members of the male sex (MtT).

  • eRuthe

    You’re right. I thought it was the other way around because of the h2b law in north Carolina, but now I see that was reacting against the previous law. So many laws about bathrooms. Imagine if you were an expert on bathroom law.

    • Tired feminist

      Trans advocates’ most insidious trick is to conflate their agenda with “LGBT rights” and to be intentionally ambiguous as to what exactly they’re demanding. They’re the first ones to point out that “gender identity and sexual orientation are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT!!!”, but are also the first ones to throw the two into the same bag when it comes to legislation on public facilities. The options they present are, either you support anti-discrimination laws agains both, or you don’t support them altogether. So it’s not surprising people are confused. They are the ones spreading confusion.

  • eRuthe

    I definitely didn’t compare people to Christians or accuse anyone of hate…
    Lol. I sound like a man? Wow.
    I’ve tried to answer everyone’s questions to me. I may have missed some. Sometimes they seem rhetorical.

    • Wren

      OUR QUESTIONS SEEM RHETORICAL???!??
      HAHAHAHA!!

      • eRuthe

        Yes, that one did.

  • eRuthe

    Maybe you’re mixing me up with someone else?

    • Wren

      No, we’re not.

    • FierceMild

      Nope. You’re not here in good faith and every new comment underscores that.

  • foamreality

    Its incredible how the women’s march deems it nessicary to explain who the march is for. And …oh its for men!. Are women that invisible? I mean what other name would you give for a march about women for women who want to march as women? I think rad feminsts should consider going. There’s an opportunity to make it what it should be: A woman’s march.

  • John Stuart Mill

    On-line it’s pimps, human traffickers, madams and seriously mentally ill (e.g. borderline personality disorder) prostitutes who are leading the “sex-work is just work” balderdash. Don’t fall for it, people. These are anti-female profiteers who actively participate in destroying women’s lives (and kids’ lives, too!)

    • Wren

      I would add that some of the prostitutes (not profiteers) who endorse endorse “sex-work” are the most defeated and resigned of the women being prostituted. When pro-prostitution organizations offer them some kind of false integrity, they grasp it because they have had to completely abandon their true identity in order to survive prostitution. The profiteers are taking advantage of this despair, so in essence prostitutes are raped by men and the sex industry apologists and pimps. Also, they hate being arrested and harassed and raped by police, so anything that promises less policing is attractive.

      But 99.999999 of people in prostitution would take resources and services to get out if they were offered. But they never are.

      • Morag999

        Thank you, Wren, for illustrating those mechanics of psychological warfare, used by profiteers, that can turn a prostituted woman into a spokeswoman who endorses the rights of her abusers to continue to abuse her and other women.

        It’s a devastating picture, this violence from every direction, and this unforgivable exploitation of women’s defeat and despair. And, then, daily breathing in the toxic fumes of a everything/one-is-for-sale, empowered, sex-positive zeitgeist which ensures that much of society will reinterpret and regard this male violence against women as neutral, or even positive.

        Very isolating. Isolation, as everyone knows, is an important tool for abusers, and here it is, on a grand, societal scale. So, no matter what, it’s important for radical feminists to keep speaking out against the institution of prostitution. I think that “a voice in the wilderness” is an apt phrase, here.

  • will

    Answer from men: Wear both the ears and the weapon. If you also wear skin-tight clothing and do some Marvel Comics action moves, we could totally jerk off to that…. I mean, um… do those things and we will totally respect you.

  • will

    “At the end of apartheid, someone might have been offended by the presence of someone of a different race in their changing rooms, but they DID have to suck it up.

    Is gender different?”

    And there you have it: complete oblivion to the material fact of male violence against women.

    You are seriously comparing women’s safety from male violence under patriarchy to white supremacists losing ground? That is fucking offensive.

    • Wren

      I’m glad you can articulate the stupidity of this. Cause I just can’t. It just makes me want to scream.

  • Wren

    You’re right. Men of all different ethnicities paid to rape me when I was a young white girl. Men of all colors love to rape whatever girl/woman happens to be conveniently available. Certainly white men used whatever reason they could come up with to lynch black men and now we have drug laws and institutionalized poverty to keep men of color down. But that doesn’t change the fact that millions of men love to rape and exploit.

    • Richard Rich

      @disqus_enipAN0Ij0:disqus I’m sorry about your past situation. It takes a lot of grit to endure what prostituted females go through and live to tell the tale. And I’m not just saying this as an empty gesture to score “Rad Creds” (to use another commenter’s expressions).

      But I guess you are right about the fiction of the “black buck” running around looking for white women to rape. I only said what I said because some of the less-than-savory “feminist” websites I have visited in the past put a lot of attention to this. Mind you, I parrot things as I go along because I’m not stubborn and blockheaded like the majority of males.

  • Wren

    I can’t even believe this. I no longer believe you are actually a woman. I hope to god you’re not.

  • moionfire

    I went to the DC march. Very crowded. Not as libfem as I thought it would be.

    • Meghan Murphy

      Good to hear!

    • Wren

      Good. And from what I saw the agenda was not the trans/sex industry one, but normal, everyday women with common sense being outraged by the willingness of our country to abandon us to a orange-rapist-in-chief. This reassures me that women have not lost their minds, but the media is forcing anti-women crap garbed in liberal word salads down our throats.

      • moionfire

        Thankfully most women are not even aware of the trans ideology. Which is funny because this means that most women according to the pro trans crowd are “TERFs.”

  • Claudia Manion

    “How did it become everything to everyone…”

    From my personal experience of being in relationships with men, it was a way to derail and/or silence me, picking me apart for not including every little thing. Libfems are trying to cover every angle first but exactly as you said, lose focus and nothing is achieved. We need to focus.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Nobody is censoring you, dear. Your comments are in moderation, like everyone else’s. That said, now that I see your antagonistic, trolling posts, I will be deleting them. You clearly expected as much. Psychic!

  • Wren

    “We need a stronger argument than just that we don’t like it.”

    You’re right. The fact that I would like to escape the male gaze and specter of rape for even one second on the toilet or in a shower or changing in a locker room or anywhere on earth JUST BECAUSE I DON’T LIKE IT is sooooooooooooooooooo selfish of me.

    FUCK. YOU.

  • gryswtr

    The perfect question. You absolutely cannot answer that while avoiding stereotypes.

  • janey canuck

    Probably I’m the only person who read the “PussyHat Project” knitting pattern (in pdf below). Here’s the true message, if it wasn’t vile enough before you read this…

    Power of Pussy
    We love the clever power play of Pussyhat and Pussycat, but yes pussy is also a derogative term for female genitalia. We chose this loaded word for our project because we want to reclaim the term as a means of empowerment. In this day and age, if we have pussies, we are assigned the gender of woman. Women, whether transgender or cisgender, are mistreated in this society. In order to get fair treatment, the answer is not to take away our pussies, the answer is not to deny our femaleness and feminity, The answer is to demand fair treatment. A woman’s body is her own. We are honoring this truth and standing up for our rights.

    Yes, I’m knitting one. the pussy ears are going to be horns. In garnet red.

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwBjtQGbV7gEZU1TdUd2b1JIZGM/view

    • Meghan Murphy

      Yuck

    • Morag999

      “In this day and age, if we have pussies, we are assigned the gender of woman.”

      Baahhaa! “In this day and age”? Sex was totally invented in the 90s, I guess!

      Sorry, but I can’t get over that: “In this day and age.” Wow. Just wow (she said, ironically).

      It’s not just men who have taken over feminism, but women with the social-emotional development of 5-year-olds. This is very embarrassing.

      Also embarrassing is the fact that women have tried to “reclaim” words like bitch, pussy, slut and whore for a minimum of 30 years now. This is old news. But never mind that, because this time, it will really work. It’s gonna work this time. It will! Just you watch. If we all hold hands and wish really really hard upon a star… ’cause when you wish upon a star, it doesn’t matter hooo U R … all your dreams will come true …

      • janey canuck

        They are slut-walk feminists and the activist equivalent of colour by number paintings.

        There was some good in it though I’m sure it wasn’t from the pink hats. In needlepoint: “I made this sign so I could stab something 35,000 times.” and “Melania, blink twice if you need help”.

        • Morag999

          ‘In needlepoint: “I made this sign so I could stab something 35,000 times.”‘

          Snort! Good stuff. Cathartic, at least.

    • will

      “In order to get fair treatment, the answer is not to take away our pussies, the answer is not to deny our […] femininity”

      “Take away our pussies”??? I’m sorry, I lost the magical plot on that one. Who is taking away our pussies? Us? Them? Also: how exactly is that done? With a knife? A scoop? It sounds rather horrific.

      Further, I totally deny that femininity is essential to my makeup. Yes, I have been groomed to be meek and subservient, but if anyone expects me to “reclaim” my acquiescence as some sort of pretend political strategy, they’ve got a long wait coming.

  • Meghan Murphy

    I don’t understand who or what you are responding to. What laws and rights are you talking about, specifically?

  • ripia

    Also their stance denies the influence of culture (and thus denies that humans are cultural beings… lol… of course they didnt explain how exactly humans arent cultural beings….)

  • ripia

    “Trans women ARE WOMEN. If you can cry “keep your laws off of our bodies” the same needs to go for everyone”

    1. no they are not
    2. well, it is the people who claim that people are nothing but metaphysical identities who erase the bodies of females, soooo….
    3. read the comments and our arguments first, your post is not original and doesnt add anything to the debate

    • Morag999

      “your post is not original and doesnt add anything to the debate”

      Yes. I consider comments like that one that to be litter.

  • Wren

    The law doesn’t tell me that I’m female, biology does.

  • Richard Rich

    @trishaidlenomorey:disqus “If you can cry “keep your laws off of our bodies” the same needs to go for everyone. You don’t want the powers that be, deciding what it means or is to be female in this country. You are the authority on you.”

    So what does it mean to be female, since it is apparently an idea men can just muster up in their heads, and not one of two sex categories (the other obviously being male) in which humans and other living organisms are divided on the basis of their reproductive functions.

    “You define you. You don’t want the masses telling you your worth, limiting access to opportunity, creating laws that control what happens to your body and you feel you have that right. Trans women have the SAME RIGHTS.”

    Except “trans women” have MORE rights than women by virtue of being born male, and the privilege to REDEFINE what it means to be female BECAUSE they are male. In a Patriarchy that represents the apex of male power and privilege. Female oppression isn’t rooted in arbitrary identities that reside in people’s heads. No, it’s rooted in their unique biology. And just so you know, you’re parroting male supremacist rhetoric.

  • Amanda

    I just had a bunch of my comments deleted on guerilla feminism because i pointed out that people (mostly cis women) were having a knee jerk emotional reaction in interpreting the pussy hats and signs referencing uteruses as automatically anti-trans. Our bodies shape our realities and experiences as women. I don’t discount a trans woman’s identity because of my reality. I also know that the body of a trans woman is at risk for violence just as a cis woman, but we still face different issues and forms of discrimination because of our anatomy. Trans women do not need to feel excluded when people with uteruses (which encompasses some trans men) speak out against legislation that affects that anatomy.

    • Meghan Murphy

      That Guerilla Feminism page is the worst. They have always blocked anyone who even dares to challenge the sex trade, never mind all the gender identity stuff…

    • janey canuck

      That. And I’m sure their project page was written by mtT. They just can’t leave us alone. This was a WOMEN’S March that had male speakers at every march. I see their whining on Gender Trender screen shots. We, at our own march, are supposed to “check our privilege”. JFC. Talk about appropriation.

    • Rich Garcia

      @disqus_ibQqQuc2dZ:disqus Don’t take this the wrong way, but you are speaking in male terms when you refer to adult females as “cis women” or “people with uteruses (uteri)”. This implies that women identify with their gender roles and erases the words “female” and “woman/en” from our vocabulary, or alters their definitions to mean something relative and arbitrary. And the expression “people with uteri” is dehumanizing, even if you don’t mean it.

      “Trans” people are not a special subclass or a third sex. They are individuals who operate under the impression that they are of the opposite sex. And with many men in particular this is conscious and deliberate on their part, since they exhibit male-pattern behavior and aggression. I understand that many of them are suffering from an identity crisis. But don’t let their perceived harmlessness and desire to be accepted fool you. Like most men they are prone to aggression because of their entitlement and inability to self-reflect and internalize criticism.

    • Cassandra

      We don’t use or validate the way your are speaking here. “Cis” is a horrible term used to demean women and redefine what women are in terms of the “gender” view of the world. Female people do not have any privilege over Male to Trans people. None. Zero.

      “People with uteruses” is HATEFUL and biological essentialism. We are not people with uteruses. We are female human beings and the only thing that makes us different from male human beings is our female reproductive system.

      A woman is nothing more or nothing less than a member of sex class female. It’s really not very complicated. It isn’t reductionist. And I dare anyone who talks in these nonsensical terms with this anti-female view of the world to actually define what “womanhood” is without using sexist bullshit descriptions.

      Gender identity is in DIRECT OPPOSITION and COUNTER TO FEMALE RIGHTS. It is harming female people in countless ways.

      Please don’t bring the way you are speaking to this space. It’s very triggering and hateful.

  • Amanda

    Yes. Trans women’s bodies have intrinsic human rights and autonomy, but not the same anatomy. They do not have to worry about access to reproductive choice and other health issues because their bodies do not reproduce and function like cis women. This is not trans exclusion; it’s simply the reality of biology.

    • Cassandra

      We are not “Cis.” We are female. They are male.

  • Meghan Murphy

    A man led the march!??! Who??

  • Edgar

    I accompanied my wife and daughter to the march in Halifax.

    While the event was described as “all inclusive”, from my point of view, the crowd was mostly women – I’d say at least 3/4 of the crowd. And I don’t recall hearing any male speakers.

    I believe women should have an unapologetically exclusive platform, but I wouldn’t discount the positive impact of this particular event. There was a vibrant atmosphere of female leadership that made me feel hope for the world.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Oh my god! No, I don’t care if a woman is right-wing — that does NOT justify male violence. (I hate that we have to watch this via The Rebel… Barf.)

  • skilletblonde

    I watched the entire march on Cspan. Though I was delighted by the turnout, I was disappointed by the speeches. Everything, including the kitchen sink, was thrown in a march that was suppose to be about women. The term gender was used more than women. Madonna! What the hell was she doing there? When did she become an orator for feminism? However, I must admit that I learned something from her appearance. She unequivocally cannot sing.

    Moreover, there was a constant theme of pandering to so called Trans-women. I must say, seeing Janet Mock speak was unsettling. What is her feminist credentials, anyway? Sorry, but I do not view trans- activism as feminist. Mock sermonized on the violence against Trans-women. This while the violence against biological women have never ceased. It remains an epidemic. As Feminist Current has posted, Trump plans to dismantle and defund 25 violence against women programs . The Republican Party has been trying to rescind Roe V Wade since the 1980’s. Abortion doctors have been murdered and clinics have been bombed in America. Yet, this has never been described by law enforcement as terrorism.

    There was another Trans-woman that spoke at the march. Sorry, but I cannot recall the name. However, she also spoke about the violence against Trans-women. But, I almost fell off my chair when she began praising the Sylvia Rivera Project. As most of you know, this is the group that is trying to get incarcerated males, who now think they are women, into women’s prisons. Never mind, they may have killed and raped women. However, intentional or not, someone had the good sense to cut her mic.

    Lastly, when you are the victim of oppression, your worth as a human being is constantly under attack. You have no sacred space. You are constantly being defined by those who have power over you. They will insist that your intelligence is inferior. Your suffering is your own fault. They’ll convince you your physicality is weak. They will create demeaning stereotypes about you that are so dogmatic that you will think they are true representations. If you are not conscious, you’ll surrender to those stereotypes. You’ll fiercely defend them. In your pain, you will make excuses for your oppressor’s cruelty. If you are a person of color, you certainly know this is all true. But sometimes as women, oppressed as we are, we don’t always see it. When we do, we apologize. That’s what I saw in that march. We can’t focus solely on the pain of biological women. After all, that’s selfish. So, we must follow our default programming, and make nice. Put yourself last. That’s what “ladies” do. right? Besides, men in dresses, with penises and testicles dangling between their legs, want to use your bathroom. They’re more oppressed than you. Who cares if you’ve been a victim rape or domestic violence. You should be ashamed for saying they aren’t women. Stop talking about your uterus and vagina? That offends women with penises and testicles. You have cis-privilege!

    You can watch the march in it’s entirety on Cspan. Here is the link.
    https://www.c-span.org/video/?422332-1/womens-march-washington-protests-new-trump-administration&live

    • Alienigena

      “Madonna! What the hell was she doing there?” Completely agree. She is almost the opposite of feminist. The only group she has ever seemed to support is LGBT (well, not the L part of LGBT). I remember reading a narrative essay that described a fictional journey of Madonna on the bus (like she would ever take the bus) with her husband of the time Guy Ritchie that wonderfully outlined her antipathy to feminism. The essays were titled “Where there is no vision” and were posted in the late 1990s. They have long since disappeared from the Internet.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Ahhhhhh! I would have lost it.

  • shy virago

    I was at the Women’s March in San Francisco. The afternoon crowd grew to close to 100,000. By mid rally, it was body to body if you could even get in to the UN Plaza. The Bay Area Rapid Transit trains from the Berkeley and Oakland were packed like sardines, everyone talking and trying to squeeze in more people at each stop.

    All but one of the speakers were women, and almost all of them women of color. When I arrived I heard male voices in the band playing on stage, but the rest of the music was female:
    a local folk group, a hip hop duo and Joan Baez.

    The crowd was a large mix of men and women, and because they mixed the platform up like a vegetable stew, the feminist message became murky. Only one of the speakers,
    a white teacher, spoke exclusively about women and girls. The others talked a little about misogyny but it was mostly racism and xenophobia, and immigrant’s rights. There was one trans speaker, but I shut off my ears once I heard his voice.

    The feminism was in the signs that women carried, so many of them radical, funny and creative. If you could judge the march by the signs and artwork, it looked very feminist. An all female samba group, Loco Bloco, played samba-reggae, the afro-Brazilian carnival music native to Bahia. It was the perfect thing to
    get people dancing even in a standing only crowd that thinned out as we took over Market Street in the cold evening rain.

  • Morag999

    No, we can’t take them back, no oppressed class can, because the slurs don’t belong to us. Slurs and have nothing to do with who we are/who we can become, but have everything to do with the people who invented them. Hear James Baldwin speak on this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0L5fciA6AU

  • FierceMild

    Right on, sister. I can smell the insincerity on that one.

  • Alienigena

    The violent man’s female friends are defending him saying he didn’t really hit her, he hit her camera. Men can displace their anger so that they direct that anger at an object, person, or being that a woman is connected to or cares about. My father literally kicked my pet cat (who was just a kitten) when I was a child down the stairs. I am sure he would have liked to have kicked me in her stead because he made sure that I saw what he had done.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Oh this is so great! Thank you for sharing!

  • Meghan Murphy

    Yeah I feel so worried about her… I have no doubt that Trump abuses her.

  • Cassandra

    Gender Justice? What the hell does that even mean?

    Gender = Masculinity & Femininity.

    Femininity is made up bullshit used to oppress women. Why would we ever support that as “just”?
    Trans women ARE defining what we are. DON’T YOU GET IT?

    MASCULINITY isn’t rewarded. HAVING A PENIS AND NOT A VAGINA is rewarded.

    God, your head is so far up your ass you must have your own shit regurgitated into your colon.

  • Wren

    I really wish I could burn my femininity to the ground. Maybe I’ll light up one of those hats…

    • Cassandra

      Yes, femininity is problematic. (lol) I do have my pink hat that my friend made though. I’m considering wearing it next time it’s cold because I live in a hot bed of identity politics and riding the train wearing it has the potential to be quite entertaining.

      The one thing all of this has done is embolden a lot of women, or at least woken many women up a tiny bit. The hats, the t-shirts I’ve seen…even if it’s feminism light and clueless it’s SOMETHING. I was just thinking today that I have never seen a women’s demonstration in my lifetime, much less ones of this caliber.

      Even three or four years ago I wouldn’t have worn my “Feminazi stole my ice cream” t-shirt but I am totally going to wear it now. I’m just wondering if it’s in poor taste— the “Feminazi” thing. Is there any way that it can ever be okay? I thought it was funny at the time but I think out of context it has the potential to be insensitive. The t-shirt is of this cartoon guy in the video below. He’s throwing a mantrum, just his blue head and big male tears shooting out of his eyes with the “Feminazi stole my ice cream” caption. Thoughts my fellow FC commenters?

      https://vimeo.com/64941331

  • Cassandra

    This is wild. Meryl Streep couldn’t do this. It’s like a cartoon. I would guess she’s terrified by all of it — never thought it would happen.

    • janey canuck

      I wonder if there’s some cue in his behaviour which she has learned will lead to something she has to endure when they are alone. Every woman ever abused by a narcissist….

  • Cassandra

    Can you define “woman” without using the term to be defined in the definition?

    Individuality destroys the unity necessary for true female liberation and it is capitalist fat cats’ way of preventing classes of people from rebelling. So congratulations for falling prey to the methods used by rich white men who hate you.

    Individuality is a method of control masquerading as freedom.

  • Morag999

    What’s new pussy hat? whoah whoah whoah

    Pussy hat pussy hat I love you,

    yes I do,

    you and your pussy hat nose

    What’s new pussy hat?

    For our younger sisters here on Feminist Current who may not realize how perfect and hilarious these lyrics are, I present to you …. Mr. Tom Jones!

    (unfortunately, though, he doesn’t shake his ass for the ladies in this performance …)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBdSqk78nHw

  • Morag999

    All true. Madonna and the emergence of so-called third wave into popular culture were practically simultaneous and synonymous. Paglia worshipped the ground Madonna walked on. Which is kind of weird, since Paglia’s anti-feminism came out of the Romantic tradition, while, at that time, Madonna was trying to go all post-modern blonde intellectual. Remember all the crotch-grabbing moves she made on stage? That was her talking hold of her “symbolic phallus” to empower and express herself. You know, metaphysical sex, the best and perhaps only kind? That’s where it’s been at for while now … women with dicks. Heh.

  • Lisa Tremblay

    I don’t get the sense that Janet Mock intends to romanticize sex work. She says none of it was glamorous. She describes the factors that propel young people into the sex trade, the dangers associated with it and the economic and social benefits she experienced. She says in one post that sex work for her was the most efficient, viable and appealing option to survive which says a lot about the lack of options available to young women of colour. Mock says that her intent in revealing her experiences in the sex trade is to spark conversation about providing real options to survival sex trade workers such as safe houses, decent employment opportunities, free healthcare and a supportive sisterhood.