Men don’t kill women out of ‘love’

Kelsey Annese, 21, and Colin Kingston, 24
Kelsey Annese, 21, and Colin Kingston, 24

Early Sunday morning, Colin Kingston showed up at his ex-girlfriend’s house, angry and equipped with a large knife. He allegedly let himself in through a back door* and went up to 21-year-old Kelsey Annese’s room, where he found her and Matthew Hutchinson, 24. He and Annese had dated for three years until she broke up with him and moved on. Finding Annese in bed with what he presumed to be her new boyfriend, Kingston stabbed them both, then called his father, saying that he’d murdered his girlfriend and that he planned to also to kill himself. When the police showed up, all three were dead.

Why? Well, according to the media, he was heart-broken.

“We believe Mr Kingston was distraught over the breakup, which led to the events yesterday,” Officer Szczesniak told reporters at a media conference. Dozens of media outlets happily picked up on this angle.

One headline asks, “Did a broken heart lead Colin Kingston to kill two people?Another states only, “Matthew Hutchinson, North Vancouver hockey player, found dead in N.Y. state,” leaving readers confused as to why the female victim — the primary target of the violence — was so easily erased from the story. “A 24-year-old New York man angry about a recent breakup fatally stabbed his ex-girlfriend and another SUNY-Geneseo college student before killing himself,” Heavy reports.

What we are to believe, in case it’s unclear, is that “love” caused this man to kill a woman. This is a message we hear so often, it probably seems reasonable to many. But it’s not reasonable. Men do not kill out of “love,” they kill out of a desire to control. “If I can’t have you, nobody can,” is a common refrain we hear from abusive men. And, often, they mean it.

Every day, three women are killed by their abusive partners or ex-partners. It is known that women are in the most danger of injury or violence when they leave or try to leave their abusers. Are we to believe that these men are killing their ex-wives or girlfriends because they are “heart-broken” or “distraught over the break-up?” Or can we tell the truth, and say that men kill their partners because they want power over these women — because they want control, because they believe they own their wives and girlfriends?

Men who kill their partners tend to be possessive, jealous, controlling men — they feel entitled to “their” women. And so when these women escape, their last ditch effort at complete control is murder. “You cannot leave me, I own you.” They would rather see these women dead than accept rejection or the idea that women are free to make their own choices about their lives.

Hours before the murders, Kingston had been seen (Saturday night) in the Geneseo bar district. He had, reportedly, been making “suicidal comments” to people.

The media and the police want us to believe this was a “crime of passion,” but showing up with a knife at your ex-girlfriend’s house, after you were out, threatening suicide (something abusive men often do in an attempt to manipulate their partners into staying or coming back), doesn’t sound like a “crime of passion” to me. It sounds like an entitled, possessive man sought out his ex-girlfriend in order to punish her for the crime of being free — free from him.

The more we talk about men’s violence against women as “passionate” or as something uncontrollable — attached to love or heartache, the more we excuse things like domestic abuse and male entitlement. There are plenty of women in this world (men, too!) who have had their hearts broken in the most gruesome and unfair ways… And yet, their emotions haven’t led them to kill. This kind of violence is a gendered crime and we must name it as such. Disguising the truth will only lead to more violence — this we know.

*EDIT: Initially I’d read reports that said Kingston had been let in, but it sounds as though he, in fact, let himself in through a back door.

Meghan Murphy
Meghan Murphy

Founder & Editor

Meghan Murphy is a freelance writer and journalist. She has been podcasting and writing about feminism since 2010 and has published work in numerous national and international publications, including New Statesman, Vice, Al Jazeera, The Globe and Mail, I-D, Truthdig, and more. Meghan completed a Masters degree in the department of Gender, Sexuality and Women’s Studies at Simon Fraser University in 2012 and lives in Vancouver, B.C. with her dog.

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  • Samantha

    God, I can’t even imagine what her roommates are going through. This was such an awful thing to read. It also demonstrates how the patriarchy and male entitlement harms, and often kills, men too. What a mess all around. Condolences to her and her friend’s family. 🙁

    • Yep. Most of the male victims of domestic violence were killed by other males. Frequently it’s the new boyfriend or the new husband or the male family members who happened to be over. Or, even worse, it’s the kid(s). 🙁

      • tinfoil hattie

        “Dear God, what about the men?”

        – twisty faster

      • BobTrent

        I’ve had rental units firebombed and shot up by women’s exes.

  • Sabine

    Any and all gendered violence (against women) is consistently excused and normalized. Only the sickest of societies could peddle the bullshit that love or passion has ANYTHING whatsoever to do with murder. Especially when it’s clearly premeditated as in this case. Male entitlement and their violence of all kinds has been so thoroughly assimilated as somehow ‘natural’ and therefore to be expected that there is basically nobody but radical feminists joining the dots and being written off as ‘man-haters’ for their trouble. Another spot-on analysis Meghan.

  • Mandateof Heaven

    Right on.

  • northernTNT

    I SO want to see this long standing horrible legislation disappear. Have any countries eliminated this excuse for murder?
    Can we start a campaign?

  • oneclickboedicea

    Women are brought up to think love is wanting the object of their love to be the best they can be, often requiring considerable personal sacrifice. Men are brought up to think love is owning another person, like a slave or a dog. It seems like men have a considerable way to go before they get on board this whole equality thing.

  • anne cameron

    As long as they can keep a significant number of people brainwashed into believing in “crime of passion” bull dung , they don’t have to begin to DO anything about changing the societal conditioning which almost forces us to be receptive to the idea that there is something excusatory about such assault and murder. Too often it appears as if there is more protection from the SPCA for dogs and cats than there is protection for women and children. What this entitled white guy did was evil. Finding any sort of excuse for his behaviour is also evil. He slaughtered two people. ‘Nuff said, dammit!

    • Debbie S

      Entitled needed to be said, but White guy? Why Even introduce race into this? The author nailed it perfectly, it doesn’t need to be dragged down by attaching the race card to it ~ People really need to stop doing that!! Men who kill for control, who feel entitled, who feel they own their women, come in all colors, shapes and sizes.

      • tinfoil hattie

        Because white men are at tge top of the privilege heap, and do most of the harm to the rest of society.

  • Virginia Howard

    It was obvious to my 14 year-old self that there was something wrong with the Tom Jones hit “Delilah”, in which the treacherous woman is slain with an operatic “Forgive me Delilah, I just couldn’t take ANYMO-O-ORE!!” So I sent it up, performing it impromptu in the halls of Lisgar Collegiate High School, down on one knee and with horrifying vibrato.

    Our sense of injustice is keener when we’re young.

  • disqus_y0UNo1LE8v

    This is SPOT ON. Thank you for crafting this very important message. I hope others will read it while the media continues to portray this as some unfortunate love triangle and that we can help everyone see the root of this issue. Great job!

  • Hannah

    Why can’t we call it a hate crime? Rape especially.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Several media reports state he was let in to the house. I’ll investigate further. Either way, I fail to see what real impact that has on the story at all…

  • Carrie

    The one thing I was surprised you didn’t add, is the obvious premeditation of the crime. Colin went to a local retailer & purchased the knife. Then eventually made his way to Kelsey’s home & killed them both. He was clearly disturbed, mentally handicapped. It shouldn’t be justified as a crime of passion or a love crime. I agree. Hate crime. 🙁

    • Zuzanna Smith

      If someone soberly went to a store and purchased a knife and didn’t kill anyone else at the store, then I would say he was quite in control and quite sane. Mentally ill people are mentally ill and violent from the word go, not after they go to the store, choose a knife from an assortment, stand in the checkout line, pay the clerk, drive to the girlfriend’s house and then commence to viciously stab two people to death.

      • tinfoil hattie

        “Mentally ill” does NOT equal “violent.” Do a modicum of research.

  • Meghan Murphy

    My “agenda” is to prevent women from being murdered by men. Of course he was a person who was loved and not all bad. But that doesn’t make it ok for the media to cover this situation has simply something that happens because men are “heartbroken.” Yes, the whole situation is sad and I’m truly sorry for your loss. But it is very dangerous to frame male violence against women in this way, regardless of how the man in question behaved in other areas of his life.

    • L.C.

      i think you have a very good cause. I just felt that it wouldn’t be an awful thing to add a little humanity to the situation. I’m know too many people too close to it not to want to protect his family and loved ones from seeing him flattened, or not fleshed out as a human, although it is inevitable. I’m not defending his or anyone elses actions. not by a long shot. Nor trying to diminish the importance of the world being a safe place for women. I wish there was a good way for the media to approach it that neither condones that outlook, nor makes a deeply troubled person a target for the hate and anger of strangers (not you, but i’ve seen genuinely wrong assumptions being made elsewhere). This isn’t your responsibility or battle. your personal quest is to call attention to the world for the safety of women, i get that. It’s just a wistful thought. Trust me when I say I never thought so deeply into these kinds of stories from this point of view until I was found myself here.

  • Dave Black

    Wow, talk about over analyzing the situation! You’ve never been dumped have you Meghan? How did you feel? Heartbroken? Distraught? Angry perhaps? Well, guess what? That’s what happened to this guy Collin and as it just so happens he was not able to handle it mentally. I’m not making any excuses for his actions I assure you, but merely pointing out how over the top your extrapolation of “men are control freaks and we need to address this as a society” is. The guy was f-ing mad. Angry. Coupled with TESTOSTERONE you sometimes end up with a very dangerous situation. That, my dear, you would not understand. You are not a man. Perhaps the monthly problem women have with their emotions is similar, I would not know, but it sure does seem that way sometimes judging by my own first hand experience.
    Here’s the thing though, Colin became an angry young man, there’s no way around that fact. He was literally OUT OF CONTROL! Obviously. It had nothing to do with him being a controlling person, it had to do with his inability to handle his anger. Men have had this problem since the beginning of time and it is directly related to testosterone.

    I do agree with those of you who wish he had just killed himself. I do too!

    • Meghan Murphy

      Um, yes… I have most certainly been heartbroken, devastated, distraught. If you were at all familiar with me or my writing, you would have read about my heartbreak, more than once. It took me YEARS to recover when my first boyfriend and I broke up, when I was about 23 years old. And I was completely emotionally fucked up and certainly acted “crazy” in many ways. I cried almost non-stop for months, obsessed, tried desperately to “win him back.” I have acted like a full on lunatic due to “heartbreak,” certainly I have experienced extreme, irrational anger at boyfriends or ex-boyfriends. And yet, not once did I consider stabbing any of them. Not once did I go out and buy a knife. Not once did I show up at their houses and murder them.

      ffs.

      The fact that you think it’s normal to react to anger or jealousy by stabbing someone is extremely scary.

    • Zuzanna Smith

      First off, you are a disgusting murder apologist. Life is filled with situations that might make a man f-ing mad, be subject to heartbreak and rejection, if this is your excuse that males could snap because they are filled with testosterone then obviously men are a danger to society, especially people not filled to the brim with murderous testosterone like women, old ladies, children, animals, etc, therefore the only solution is for men to be kept indoors, or muzzled and tied up like aggressive dogs.

    • vagabondii

      Sooo… You’re saying that men are too dangerous to be allowed out in public without supervision? Cuz that’s what it sounds like.

  • saluki17

    You are making a HUGE leap from a headline using the term “broken heart” to stating that the claim was he killed her out of love. By doing this, you are guilty of the same manipulative interpretation that the journalists you refer to made. I would never try to determine a person’s motive for such a horrendous act, especially when he is dead himself. However, my best guess would be that he couldn’t deal with the loss of his girlfriend, or that she might be happy with another man, and he snapped (for lack of a more clinical term). This would make it more likely a sign of emotional or mental illness.

    Of course, you are free to make this fit your agenda any way you’d like, but in that case, please remove the term “journalist” from your bio!

    • Meghan Murphy

      What is it you think the police and media were trying to convey by framing this as “a love triangle” or something that happened due to “heartbreak,” and “feeling distraught by the breakup.” What I’ve written about is the message relayed by media coverage. And, again, my “agenda” is simply to prevent more women from being murdered by men. You seem to think that’s a very shady goal, for some reason… Telling.

    • marv

      Your “best guess” is the least possible, the most biased and ableist.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Research shows that when women have murdered their husbands, it’s often in self-defense or due to battered wife syndrome. Men tend to murder their female partners far more often and for different reasons.

    • Cpt_Justice

      And she was NOT “his partner”. In exactly the same way that Nicole Brown was NOT OJ Simpson’s wife.

  • Meghan Murphy

    I’m sorry you’re hurting, Olivia, and I’m sorry for your loss… But I’m concerned that you seem to be implying that, somehow, the victim was at fault here… No woman deserved to be killed or abused, no matter what she “put [her partner] through”…

  • Meghan Murphy

    Got it. Edited. Thanks for the info.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Surely you’re aware of my ongoing, consistent critiques of the institution of marriage and patriarchal traditions surrounding courtship, engagements, weddings, and marriage, itself?

    Either way, whether women buy into that shit or not, it doesn’t make them deserving of abuse or murder…

    • Sabine

      I’m not sure this little gem would understand what you mean by critique…or patriarchy…or pretty much anything requiring an IQ above 50.

    • BetelgeuseBoom

      We may have stumbled on some common ground here. I will count that as progress.

  • Meghan Murphy

    My “self-interests” like “not wanting women to be murdered by men?” You’re so, so right. That is incredibly selfish of me. I will “get over myself” and start writing about Hockey or something *really* important.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Did you leave the same comment on the CBC article that focused entirely on the man who was killed and treated the female victim as an aside?

    • Cassie Burton

      Fully support you Meghan. Also, this man conveniently leaves out that the reason the “man who was left out” (which obviously, he wasn’t, since you talked about him also) was only murdered because he was in the same room, possibly in the same bed, as his ex girlfriend. She would’ve ended up dead anyway, whether she was with him or another man or a woman or possibly even alone. He, on the other hand, could be interchangeable with any other man (or woman) who dared to date a woman with an angry ex. That’s why her name should always be mentioned – she was his main target.

      P.S. Choosing the name “trigger warning” pretty much shows the type of person he is.

  • Meghan Murphy

    If a man says he’s going to kill you, I’d take him seriously…

  • Meghan Murphy

    I’m not sure what you’re responding to or referencing here?

  • Meghan Murphy

    Yes. http://www.buffalonews.com/city-region/police-courts/distraught-over-breakup-former-geneseo-student-kills-ex-girlfriend-another-student-before-killing-himself-20160118

    But it’s also referencing a larger trend that has been invoked time and time again, throughout history, to describe male violence against women.

  • Meghan Murphy

    “I would like nothing more than to end the cycle of violence that still pervades our culture, including the still-too-common incidents of violence by men against women.”

    Clearly. Why don’t you tell us more about your work in the feminist movement?

    And no, no one owes you an apology. Move along now, please.

    • saluki17

      Ah, yes, if I am not an active member of the feminist movement, I can’t be involved, in my own little way, in combating these problems. And I believe I do, by treating my wife and all the women in my life with dignity and respect, and teaching my two sons to do the same.

      If you don’t want to hear dissenting opinions, I would suggest turning comments off, or not engaging with the people who post them.

      • Meghan Murphy

        We are the dissenting opinion.

      • Tired feminist

        Translation: “I’m a nice guy!”

        (*yawn*)

      • Trods

        Nobody hears anything you type, except likely your kids and wife hearing the tickity tick. I wonder if synaesthesia works that way?

      • Mancheeze

        How about you show a little self control and leave the male entitlement behind. Nobody is forcing you to comment but you’re doing it and then saying that a woman has to turn off comments or else you can’t hold your mantrum in check. Sounds like entitlement to me and misogynist attempts at controlling the authoress. On your way now dude. Fact is, you’re just as controlling as any other dude on here who is mansplaining.

  • Meghan Murphy

    “You try to make your agenda look ‘black and white’ but it was done in an insensitive manor.” [sic]

    I don’t think it’s “insensitive” to name male violence. I think it’s “insensitive” to kill women because they don’t want to be with you anymore.

  • Meghan Murphy

    The correction was made last night, immediately after the first comment was posted. Thanks.

  • ww

    Hi Meghan, I didn’t know Colin personally but live in this small town. I have have known the good Kingston family for 55 years. Since Sunday I have been wondering why Colon felt justified to Kill Kelsey, even in a fit of rage it makes no sense. I asked my daughter “Why did he think he owned Kelsey and how does our culture teach this to boys?” We are all dumbfounded and heartbroken by this violent act aimed at Kelsey. Matt had the right to be there. This is a very complicated situation and we need to avoid painting it as a case of this or that. As always there were overlapping forces and motivations leading to this outcome. I sincerely appreciate your thoughts you raise valid questions about how we act. Why is Kelsey an ex girlfriend and Matt not simply her friend. Both were Senior’s at the same school on good varsity teams. Your article is helping me see and sort this out.

  • Patti Egan

    Call it what it is…DOMESTIC VIOLENCE

    • tinfoil hattie

      “domestic” – as though. they were arguing about curtains, or something.

  • ww

    I wish there was a like button here!

    • Meghan Murphy

      There is! It’s that little arrow below the post that looks like this: ^

      • Will W

        Thanks.

  • ww

    If we are going to get anywhere. we need to drop our defenses and have a conversation. My daughter is in a PHD program for clinical psychology. During her first year there was a large focus on racism. She would ry to take us to the new understanding she had about micro aggression and so on. At first it hurt to talk about it because I didn’t want to accept that there was any chance I was racist (as a white male). But I love her and so I went with her on that journey. Now i have a much greater understanding of racism, how it is in our culture. Its not a pill I took or a gene in my DNA. I have breathed through a lot of uncomfortable discussions and while it is a long road i no longer look at racism as a bad thing. More I see it as a condition of my upbringing and I have the ability to be mindful and notice when I’m on automatic pilot. My point is if we are talking about things this intense we need to steer clear of automatic defensive positions and ask each other questions and listen to each others answers because if we are careful we will mean what we say and avoid waisting time throwing darts. Will W

  • Kikoola

    This was NOT a crime of passion. He entered the house armed and hunted his prey. He was a sociopath — it was premeditated.

  • Alienigena

    I think the fact that the same conversation occurs over and over again whenever there is a mass shooting or some guy kills his ex-spouse or girlfriend (or stalking victim). The majority of people who commit these crimes are men. I would argue that the Elliot Rodger story started out as a domestic homicide because he killed his roommates first then moved onto others. These men start out killing their families/friends/lovers but if they are also capable of killing neighbors or strangers if you get in their way.

    “Mayors Against Illegal Guns report
    on mass shootings (suggested) that the problem of gun violence is
    far more related to violence against women in homes than rampages in
    public settings such as schools and theaters.”

    http://www.alternet.org/most-mass-shootings-target-women-and-families-study-finds-men-legal-guns-are-blame

    “The untold story of mass shootings in America is one of domestic
    violence. It is one of men (yes, mostly men) targeting and killing their
    wives or ex-girlfriends or families.”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/mass-shootings-domestic-violence-women_us_55d3806ce4b07addcb44542a

    What about all the men who go to their wives/girlfriends workplace to kill them and end up killing others? The problem of violent men is not just a problem for their spouses/lovers.

    • tinfoil hattie

      The Virginia Tech shooter first murdered a woman who wouldn’t go out with him. Campus cops dismissed it as just another “domestic dispute,” and didn’t lock down the campus. So he continued on his rampage.

  • Cassie Burton

    Have you ever considered that maybe you’re “attacked” on here not because you’re a man, but because you don’t give a shit about women? Aww, he killed his ex girlfriend and a man who dared to be in the same room as her – but who cares, right? He was “heartbroken” and the world dares to have more resources for abused women (who are more likely to be abused AND MURDERED by their partners than men do) that totally means it’s not a big deal and how dare someone imply that it is.

    P.S. nice straw-man argument at “the man is guilty until proven innocent.” Here’s some facts for you: he took the initiative to get drunk, get a knife, go to her house, go up to her room, stab her, and stab another person in the room. But by all means, let’s bemoan how it’s not his fault because maybe he didn’t have access to mental health and forget the fact that women are more likely to suffer from a mental illness – yet magically it’s not women who often kill people.

  • Lilly

    Police face a tough situation when releasing statments regarding events, especially ones as troubling as this. As whatever they say is out there forever and quoted time and time again. Being from the neighboring small town where this happened but have moved away this caught my attention on Facebook when I saw it posted as I know how something like this rocks the town, long term. Although people try to make it black and white like a love triangle gone suicidally wrong 9/10 times there’s more to the story, more that is not brought to public eye. That being said having been in a relationship similar to this one, I’m sure that if people looked back over time there were warning signs of the killers instability, jealousy, anger control issues, that this didn’t come out of no where. The victim having tried to get help from other sources and support groups usually isn’t successful until its too late as someone can walk right through a restraining order. The moral of this story is simple, irregardless of feminine agenda, domestic violence, going against both genders is a real issue that most of the time someone has to be seriously harmed or dead before taken seriously, trust me, I know. Someone commented that once a person is claimed to be an abuser they are guilty until proven innocent, you have no idea how hard it is for an abused woman, especially if children are involved, or for a younger woman, to speak up and be heard, to have the courage to say something without feeling they will be beaten more laughed at or feeling like a failure. Before bringing up testosterone or PMS as an excuse for behavior, there is no reason someone, no one. to feel so belittled, betrayed, inhuman. And everyone in these posts have seemed to forgotten the concept of verbal and emotional abuse, which are worse because there are no marks, no seen evidence. This was an awful horrible event and I feel sick for my neighbors.

  • marv

    Because individuals don’t grow up in a vacuum. They dwell in general stratified social conditions that have huge but varying impacts on their conduct. Colin Kingston’s actions are an example of patriarchal culture’s worst outcomes.

  • john obvi

    You don’t know the whole sorry. You don’t know if he was possessive, entitled, and abusive either, so how dare you comment regarding his character? Maybe it was she who made the break-up painful, and done so intentionally. It was a crime of passion, but that can mean anything- sadness, hate, jealousy, and love, are all passions. No one except for you claimed he killed his ex out of love. He was driven insane, and that’s what brought him to commit this heinous murder. Unfortunately we’ll probably never hear the juicy gossip behind what REALLY lead him to crack.

    • Meghan Murphy

      It doesn’t matter how painful the break up was. I have been through break ups that were fully traumatic — abuse, cheating, lying, full on mind fuckery — just horrid stuff (as well as just plain old heart break that took me years to get over). But I’ve never gone and bought a knife!!

    • Tired feminist

      Yeah sure. Maybe she deserved it, right? Maybe she provoked him, right?

      Your comment is disgusting dude. Just stop.

    • Jasonz

      How dare you suggest murder is justified for a painful breakup? You are not sane.

    • Cpt_Justice

      I guess you figured if you actually read the article, you’d have less bullcrap to spew at her? (Free Clue: some of the things you said were disproved by quotes in the article)

  • MissDez

    The source that mentioned Matthew Hutchinson in the headline is CBC Vancouver- where he was from. CBC Vancouver would otherwise not be reporting on the story at all…

    • Meghan Murphy

      Weeellll I’m not so sure about that… I’m pretty sure the CBC would cover the story, either way. They are Canada’s main news source.

  • Fran

    Finally someone peeling back the onion

  • Meghan Murphy

    The entire post is a critique of media coverage… You got that, right?

  • Meghan Murphy

    I’m not sure what supposedly missing part of this story could possibly justify a man buying a knife in order to go over to his ex-girlfriend’s house and kill her…

  • Meghan Murphy

    What are we supposed to understand from the “distraught over breakup”/”heartbroken”/”love triangle” storyline? We are supposed to understand that he loved her so much that the pain of the breakup/heartbreak led him to kill.

    • Ben Bradford

      I’m just giving a little perspective to something along the lines of what Joey might be saying. In my opinion, there is definitely a possibility that this man did do this out of heartbreak. The reason why I say this is because with the western gender constuct we have, men often do not know how to deal with their emotions, or they feel less masculine if they talk to anyone about there feelings. Lets say that this was his first girlfriend ever, and he thought she might “be the one.” Well I’ve had a lot of friends go through a similar thing and become incredibly depressed and suicidal for years after a breakup. This man was also clearly suicidal, but also very hateful and resentful leading him to kill his girlfriend as well. This of course can be seen as seeking power and control, which no doubt there is that aspect of it, but I think a larger contribution to this unfortunate case is the gender role he has been told to live up to, resulting in a lack of knowledge or skills with dealing with his own emotions.
      This does not justify anything, all I am trying to say as it’s not as simple as saying he’s a typical controlling, power seeking man. The entire issue and cases alike are a lot more complicated than such a simple accusation.

      • Meghan Murphy

        I’ll give you this: masculinity is a huge part of the problem here.

  • Eric

    First off, I want to say that I completely agree with your article when it comes to men being controlling towards women and the obvious correlation between that control and relationship homicides. Those stats are extremely clear and to argue against them is completely ignorant and further proves their point. That being said, one thing that I think you need to include in this article are instances of how women murdering their ex-significant others are portrayed by the media. I was curious to see the difference, so I googled “woman kills ex-boyfriend” and this article by AP was one of my first hits http://www.apnewsarchive.com/1985/Distraught-Over-Losing-Boyfriend-Girl-Kills-Two-Then-Herself/id-075d33aa6600d2e6b30d969ba3edaf0d. The headline is “Distraught Over Losing Boyfriend Kills Two, Then Herself.” Obviously, there were some interesting similarities between the headlines. But this is only one article, and could very well be an exception to the rule. Regardless, I think the claim that the media creates the illusion that men are killing out of love inherently implies that the media creates a different illusion for women who kill their ex-significant partners, and therefore it is essential to provide examples of both sides to back up the claim. I think men are undoubtedly more controlling in relationships, and that is unhealthy and way under discussed. But I believe the media pushes a general “people kill ex-es out of love” because A) the storyline has a better plot, which is a super messed up consideration that the media definitely makes; B) the media’s consumers would prefer to believe that their significant others would need to be mad to hurt them, rather than their partners could be controlling psychopaths capable of hurting them at any moment. Great article, thought provoking! Sorry if I was long winded or offensive, I am just very interested in engaging in this discussion!

    • Melissa Cutler

      If systemic, global oppression of women and the dramatically different rates of male v. female violence towards partners were not factors, then maybe a comparison to how the media handles supposed “crimes of passion” of both men and women would be worth making. Maybe. However, that is not the case. These murders don’t happen in a vacuum. You seem to like research, so here’s your homework: 1) read up on systemic oppression and why there’s no such thing as “reverse oppression” (e.g. reverse racism or reverse sexism) 2) look up the rates that women are murdered or abused by their partners and exes v. the rates that men are abused 3) ponder at length the fact that a huge part of the systematic oppression of women is the pervasive and constantly reinforced perspective that men are entitled to women’s bodies because they can’t control their urges–sexual, anger. This happens through porn, prostitution, religion, advertisements, movies, and on and on and on. 4) ponder at length how men’s feeling of entitlement to women’s bodies contributes to them killing their partners and exes at an alarming and horrifying rate all over the world, and how the media are then apologists for the male murderers by feeding into the lie that they couldn’t help themselves because men, inherently, can’t control their violent or sexual urges.
      And then ask yourself why you were compelled to do the 5 minutes of pseudo-research that you did in order to discover whether “it’s not just men” and then take the extra step to post about it here. Why? Why try to derail a conversation about male violence with an argument of “it’s not just men”? You say you looked up the media’s treatment of female murderers because you were just curious, but ask yourself why you were curious about THAT particular angle of the discussion. Eric, the answer is that you are part of the oppressing group. You are part of the problem. It’s time to own up to your own entitlement and your resistance to the truth about systemic oppression or stay out of our discussion.

  • Tired feminist

    And I think it tells much more about these men than they’d like, the fact that they got so offended with the idea that ‘love’, ‘passion’ or – shocking! – even jealousy aren’t acceptable excuses to kill a woman.

  • Nice job Meghan.

  • Miriam Lupfer Reed

    I don’t agree with your analysis, Joey. It isn’t the break-up or ending of the “intimate relationship” that caused the suspect to murder his ex-girlfriend. It is the suspect’s loss of control and domination over the victim that caused him to murder her. His entire focus was power over the victim. The suspect’s relationship with the victim was never about love, togetherness, their future, or any other aspect of an intimate relationship. The suspect’s total manipulation of power and control of the victim was his only interest.

    • DuckAndCover

      “His entire focus was power over the victim. The suspect’s relationship with the victim was never about love, togetherness, their future, or any other aspect of an intimate relationship. The suspect’s total manipulation of power and control of the victim was his only interest.”

      I think this would only be true if someone who is abusive and controlling doesn’t want or need love, and has no capacity to give it. Do you really think it’s that black and white?

  • Jaci

    It is true that men can be controlling and abusive, but so can women. This guy who murdered his ex girlfriend probably had some sort of mental problem or depression after the breakup. This article makes it sound like you’re assuming he was abusive or controlling. What he did was not okay by any means, but making up things that you don’t know about him is unfair too. No one knows why he did it but this article is one sided and making him out to be a terrible person. He may have been a great boyfriend/son/friend. There are other factors you need to consider before you say he was an “entitled, possessive man” trying to punish his ex.

    • Meghan Murphy

      If you consider “masculinity” to be a “mental problem,” I suppose you could be right. But women are just as likely to suffer from mental illnesses like depression and anxiety (if not more likely) as men. Beyond that, women with mental illness are commonly targeted for abuse and exploitation by men. Most prostituted women on the Downtown Eastside, for example, are struggling with some for of mental illness (plus addiction, in many cases). “Mental illness” simply cannot account for the gendered nature of male violence. If “mental illness” were the issue here, the epidemic that is femicide would not be so.

    • bevtoastily

      ^ Man pretending to be a woman. There are so many of them on here.

      • Jaci

        I actually am a girl and I have been in a relationship with a controlling asshole in the past. All I meant is that it isn’t really fair to assume he was controlling or abusive during their relationship without proof. If there was proof that he was like that during their relationship I would agree with this article 100%. But the writer is assuming he was without any proof.

        • Meghan Murphy

          Alrighty, then. So what do you think caused this man to kill his ex?

        • MJ

          The proof is that he killed her when she no longer wanted to be his possession. You need to stop thinking that equal rights means men no longer feel entitled to being the center of socio/economic dominance.

      • Cpt_Justice

        Sadly, that doesn’t even have to be the case. The whole idea of systemic sexism is that it envelops women, too. The same way black police officers have been known to target black suspects in a way they would never go after white ones.

    • Cpt_Justice

      It’s more true that people try to whitewash this problem with false equivalencies & a derailment to “mental issues”. No one’s making up anything: he killed a girl because she stopped going out with him, and killed the guy she was seeing. The only “other factors” are that he was a white guy & fairly pleasant looking. That’s why he has such knee-jerk defenders., & that’s why it will continue to go on. Thanks.

    • Strawberry Jones

      No. Please stop. Violence is not a symptom of depression. When someone is horribly violent, it is ridiculous to say “He was probably depressed.” You might as well say, “This guy who murdered his ex girlfriend probably had diabetes or a sprained ankle.” Mental illness and physical illness have fuck all to do with violence. Okay? Stop.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Right. The “tragedy” of male violence affects us all, as women. Most of us have had direct experience with abusive men, many of us know women who have been murdered by men or have had our lives threatened ourselves. It is not “respectful” in any way to try to compartmentalize this issue and ask women to pretend away something they already know, first-hand, to be true. I understand that this situation is very difficult for those who knew the individuals involved, but if we ever hope to address the problem of male violence, we need to address it head on — not simply pretend as though these are all simply random, individual incidences, disconnected from one another…

  • Meghan Murphy

    Yes you’re right: “There is a huge difference between masculinity and mental illness.”

    So let’s please, at long last, stop pretending masculinity and male violence = mental illness. It’s insulting, stigmatizing, and unhelpful to people who struggle with mental illness yet don’t go around murdering women.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Y’all know I’m Canadian, right?

    • Cpt_Justice

      BOOM!

  • Meghan Murphy

    These arguments are frustrating because it’s the same stuff women hear EVERY TIME they come out about abuse. “Oh but he seems so nice!” Or like, “But he is nice TO ME.”

  • Meghan Murphy

    Right. But men often confuse “love” with “control.”

  • Meghan Murphy

    Uh. No. That was not your point. You argue that he was suffering from mental illness and that this had nothing to do with gender/power.

  • Meghan Murphy

    All “dialog” is not equal.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Trolling gets folks blocked, Sara.

  • Debbie Humphrey

    Killing her was the ultimate control. In a patriarchal culture men learn ( are taught by culture) that they have the right to control women, to see them as possessions. Yes, women can be violent too, however our culture teaches us as women that violence is not okay. Men are supported to macho, to be nothing like a girl. Culture is made. We can and must do more to change how boys and girls are raised to play these roles. We need to do more critical thinking.

  • Meghan Murphy

    The facts of the case show very clearly that it was a case of male violence against women. That is undeniable.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Women are dying, at the hands of men, literally EVERY DAY, and you are trying to pretend as though this is about “feminist feelings”? Good god, what are they teaching you over there?

  • contekkst

    Isn’t one point of the article that this is mental illness? That to ascribe a rational motivation (“broken heart”) to such an incomprehensible act is a slight against women (and men, really, too)? I can’t see how anyone could deny that it is mental illness. And the word “entitled” is pretty bizarre, here, too. Maybe in some abstract sense, but he didn’t think he’d get away with it. He apparently was entitled to taking his own life with a knife, too, which I would guess in nearly anyone’s view is a sick and horrible end.

    • Meghan Murphy

      The point of the article is that this is about male violence against women — power and control. I must admit it’s very strange to see so many university students unable to understand this… Do they not teach students about systems of power/oppression in university anymore?

    • Cpt_Justice

      If it’s “mental illness”, why are men more prone to it than women?

  • Cassandra

    🙂

  • Mancheeze

    Correct. If anyone wants to be educated on this issue, and leave it to a man to come here and do a long whiny mansplain about the violent wimminz, then read Liz Sheehy’s book ‘Battered Women On Trial.’ When women kill their male partners, it’s almost always a result of being battered by those men for years. Men kill to control, dominate and so on. It’s a sense of entitlement in men, not mental illness. It’s also the idea that men OWN women as property.

    To ignore the gendered nature of these crimes is to live in a fantasy land or MRA land.

  • Mancheeze

    Yeah, cuz somehow buying a diamond means you own her right? Good lord another misogynist, entitled manbaby.

  • Mancheeze

    Just stop. She is not at fault in any way. He’s the murderer and ‘hurt feelz’ are not an excuse to murder. It’s like many of you don’t read the piece. We’re talking about something that happens often, that the media fails to report in an honest way.

    The point is that men do this all the time. We’re naming the problem.

  • Mancheeze

    Whenever our society uses ‘he was distraught over the breakup’ it’s a tacit excusing of the behaviour. Just imagine if the cops and courts started telling the truth about male violence. ‘He was a dominating, entitled male who had misogynist ideas about women and thought women were his property.’ I love imagining a time when we name the problem.

  • tinfoil hattie

    Because men assault, rape, and murder women with ghastly frequency. It’s an epidemic, and it’s disingenuous to write it off as flawed individuals, men and women alike, ho-hum.

    • BobTrent

      Men assault, rape and murder people with ghastly frequency. This has been going on throughout all semblance of recorded history in all known cultures, nations and communities. Being a man means that I am more likely than a woman to be assaulted (seriously enough for it to be recorded), raped or murdered…by a man of course. Do I fear women? Not to be beaten or murdered by one. When I hear a noise outside or behind me in the dark, do I look for a skulking woman?

  • tinfoil hattie

    I’m so terribly sorry for your awful loss.

  • tinfoil hattie

    I am sensitive. To his victims. Sorry your friend was a misogynist, murdering asshole.

  • tinfoil hattie

    STFU. MEN are the killers.

  • tinfoil hattie

    STFU, you mansplaining asshole. I am nowhere near as patient or as civil as Meghan Murphy. So fuck you.

  • tinfoil hattie

    Uh, she HAD exited the relationship. That’s why he killed her. But nice job blaming her for her own murder.

  • Tired feminist

    Nope, it isn’t. What men need to do to stop male violence is shut up and listen to women. If that offends you, get the fuck out of a feminist space.

  • Sabine

    “I consider myself a feminist, but I get so very frustrated by feminists that feel women can only be raised up by the submission of men.”

    You have a very shaky grasp of what radical feminism is about if you think it’s got anything to do with the submission of men.

  • Tired feminist

    Dear, male violence is when a male is violent. It’s not complicated.

  • Sabine

    The new boyfriend would not have died if he had not been directly linked to the murderer’s ex-girlfriend and had not dared ‘take’ what the murderer believed to be rightfully ‘his’ or nobody’s. It’s not at all complicated. This innocent guy was stabbed to death because of his girlfriend’s ex’s deluded ‘claim’ on her. It makes complete sense that he would be killed too, he is not being dismissed just because it is being rightfully pointed out as being a gendered crime. Men slay their ex-spouse’s new partners all the time and it’s purely out of a sense of ownership being denied. The revenge was first and foremost against HER, his ex, and the new guy who dared step into his shoes.

  • Sabine

    Erm, nope. Do some research and look at the stats. Not only are the number of women killing male partners/ex-partners statistically incomparable to those of men killing women, they mostly do so in order to defend themselves or their children against their abusive husband/spouse. THAT’S disturbing my blinkered, ignorant friend.

  • Meghan Murphy

    You need to Google the words “systemic oppression.”

  • Meghan Murphy

    So all abusive men are simply ‘mentally ill’? It has nothing at all to do with patriarchy/male supremacy?

  • Meghan Murphy

    But the roles weren’t reversed. And there’s a reason for that.

  • Meghan Murphy

    He bought a knife. What other details do you need?

  • Meghan Murphy

    Seriously. We don’t talk about this stuff because we like it — we talk about it because we want it to stop.

  • Meghan Murphy

    I don’t have any idea what you’re talking about and I don’t think you do either.

    • vagabondii

      Ha! Perfect response.

  • Joanna Ostroot

    I do not disagree with you. And I never said or implied that the perpetrator was a victim. I was merely trying to explain why the police may have used the language of the perpetrator being distraught. Of course it wasn’t worded in a great way. However, to expect that the police, in a press conference the day after the event happened when all of the deceased persons’ families were probably listening, would call the perpetrator a cowardly murderer or something similar is not very realistic.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Considering that so many of these comments are attached to university email addresses should depress you even more…

  • Meghan Murphy

    The police created the “distraught” storyline the media then went with.

  • Cassandra

    Wow, are you studying postmodernism or something?

  • Laura Gartshore Woodward

    This is long, but I ask you to read to the end, I stumbled upon this site by accident, but was both intrigued and saddened by what I found. A great article with and underlying message that no one commits a violent act out of love. That the media often is more concerned with headlines, and not on true societal problems. There is a HUGE problem in our society, and many of the comments here reinforces the problem.
    First, insulting a person that you disagree with does not make their points any less valid. It actually makes you look petty, and makes people not want to listen to or take seriously what you have to say.
    You have a very real and important issue her- Violence against women.  I think everyone agrees that we want to get to the root of this issue and find a way to enact change.
    Work with people if you want to achieve change and change minds.
    Do not cloud an important issue with negativity and prejudice. 
    Anyone who has to resort to name-calling and negativity, usually doesn’t have much of an argument, or cheapens the issue that they supposedly are arguing for. Spewing generalizations also weekens an argument.
    You can communicate your concerns in a way that opens the floor to meaningful discussion.  Do not attack people because their view varies from yours. Both sides may actually learn something, and together bring about enlightenment and change.

    I can acknowledge that there are cultures in our world, and factions of our society that still subscribe to the misguided notion of patriarchy or male supremacy. Yes, the concearn here is valid.
    We still as a culture put too much emphasis on gender roles.
    But it is my opinion is (which should not be discounted because it differs from yours) That statements such as “Masculine Violence” “Gendered Crime” reinforce and emphasize these misguided gender roles. Being a man does not make you inherently violent anymore than being a woman makes you weak.
    I maintain that this is a societal issue not a gendered one. Statistically there may be more reported male violence against women,  but we also have woman who commit violence against men, men who commit violence against men, woman against woman… race, religion,  sexual preference… Violence in our society is a HUGE issue, that stretches far beyond gender roles.
    A man must be taught to think that they are superior to a woman,  conditioned– a weaker mind is more susceptible to this conditioning.
    A stronger person with a stronger sense of self is likely to reject such a notion.
    The mind is a vast frontier worthy of exploration,  why can some minds be conditioned so easily?
    I believe the heart of many issues such as this (why some minds are predisposed to discrimination,  misguided judgement, the need for control, and the need for supremacy over another, gender, race, religion… or any ideology diffrent from our own) is rooted in our mental health and stability. I will repeat, the heart of many issues such as this are rooted in our mental health. Please listen before you jump to any conclusions as to how that statement can be expanded upon.
    A strong mind is an open mind capable of critical thinking,  seeing all sides of an issue,  and commitment to resolving issues not creating them. A strong mind questions and is ever open to change, searching and continuing to evolve.
    A weak mind often falls prey to suggestion,  conditioning, and irrational rigid thought.
    There are varying degrees of mental illness- in extreme cases we see horrible and frightening outcomes such as murder.
    We as a society need to address why so many feel the need to fear what is different rather than embrace and celebrate our differences? We need to question why the human mind needs to feel or seek supremacy over another human being?
    Why as a race are so many predisposed to look for our differences and to leap to judgement?
    Why radical thought?
    Where is that point in the human mind when it snaps, being capable of violence against another human?
    This is far beyond just a gendered issue, racial issue, and so on.
    This is a mental issue, a human and societal issue- that must be addressed. Mental illness is a real issue that is far reaching and multifaceted. If we can discover why the human mind seems to be predisposed to buy into such conditioning that actually makes one person think that they are better than another person,  that their life, thoughts, ideas, point of view have any more value than anothers– if we could solve this problem,  we would end all wars, violence,  prejudice…
    What a wonderful society where all humans lived in harmony,  working with eachother and not against eachother.  Wouldn’t it be great if there was a reset button?  LOL but there is not, it is going to take a lot of work and years to achieve a society that can live in harmony,  and we will never achieve this harmony through perpetuating labels,  division,  and judgement.  We must open our minds look beyond our lables.
    We must investigate what causes this primitive, undeveloped, sense of entitlement, fear, and judgement?
    Why are some minds able to evolve beyond this pettiness, while others are susceptible to a cultive indoctrination?
    I can see your side and acknowledge that male violence is real, I appreciate your passion and your wanting to shed light on a very worthy issue. But why villify others who propose that this issue is beyond just a gender issue, why not consider that there could be more to this problem than just simply gender? The problems we face today are rooted in so many different issues. We all have valid concerns, and have opinions that should be respected and investigated. Thank you for reading.

    • MJ

      In other words, don’t rock the boat or make men feel bad or responsible for violence and aggression towards women? Trollish walls of text always confound me. You don’t have to cater to men, as they are the controlling and dominant gender, ok? Patriarchy is the issue at hand here because male entitlement breeds contempt for women as human beings. This is why men kill women who aren’t the Stepford wives they were promised by virtue of having a penis. Educate yourself on seeing women as autonomous human beings and not an extension of men’s narratives. Oh, and look up internalized misogyny if you really are a woman. I’m armchair diagnosing you with it.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Masculinity, in and of itself, is intricately connected to patriarchy, male supremacy, and male violence against women. I seriously doubt that the men you know haven’t been socialized, at least in some ways, to perform masculinty and/or to relate to the world around them from a place of male privilege.

  • Meghan Murphy

    It’s not that you’re “stirring the pot,” Laura, it’s that your arguments are very basic and we’ve heard them so many times before from people who deny that patriarchy, male entitlement, male violence exist as a gendered and systemic phenomenon. It’s not interesting for us to hear these kinds of arguments from people who’s arguments/understanding of these issues are not very advanced… Your arguments are no different from those who deny that racism doesn’t exist because they “don’t see colour” and “people are all the same on the inside.”

  • Melissa Cutler

    That’s because there really is a “further reaching insidious poison in an entire gender that is being swept under the rug”. As the oppressing group, you’ve been socialized to have that insidious poison in you, too, Mark. You’re part of the problem. That’s why you can’t see it. To reiterate the refrain sprinkled throughout these comments, please Google “systemic oppression.”

  • Meghan Murphy

    If we don’t understand why men kill women and try to get at the root of the problem, we have little hope of preventing male violence from happening in the future.

  • Meghan Murphy

    I have been moderating an very high traffic comment section on very high traffic website, all day, every day, for about four or five years now. When folks who have never really engaged with these ideas before accuse women in the feminist movement — many of whom have been in abusive relationships and are invested in this movement out of care and concern for other women’s lives — of simply having “hurt feelings,” and paint the movement as “assumptions,” rather than based in an understanding of systemic oppression and a deep, well-founded desire for a better world, it’s unlikely I’m going to respond politely.

    • Jen Walpole

      I can definitely understand that, and again- completely agree with everything you wrote. I just think the responses questioning the intelligence of those who don’t have your educational background or understanding on these issues could potentially detract from the intended message and drive people (who definitely need to hear you) away.
      Anyway, very powerful article, it’s a shame articles like this are still necessary.

  • Cassandra

    She was not prioritizing truth and honesty. She simply took a classic tone-policing stance, as have a couple of other women in this thread. It’s condescending and tedious. Feminists disagree with each other all the time, but we generally don’t patrol one other over how to be more polite to men who come into a feminist space smearing their clueless male privilege all over the walls.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Acknowledging that gender socialization and patriarchy is real = “narrow-minded”? Alrighty. Take good care now.

    • Cassandra

      Yeah, I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Why did two people get killed instead of just one? Who was the intended target of the violence? Who was the perpetrator?

  • Cassandra

    She sounds like a cross between someone with Stockholm Syndrome and one of the female talking heads on FOX news.

  • Melissa Cutler

    Oh my god, I’ve been compromised. I had no idea.

  • Cassandra

    I am tired of typing my reactions to the platitudes, so I’ll take a shortcut.

    http://giphy.com/gifs/N5PsztQSjkYMw/html5

  • Mark LaRuez

    You can’t be a normal person who murders
    can you?

    I mean you have it in you to take a life, that’s saying something

    • shinylib

      That you synonymize mental illness with abnormality is telling.

      There are plenty of “normal” people with mental illnesses who don’t go around indiscriminately murdering people.

      I will agree that murderers are broken in some fashion, not mentally ill or divergent.

  • Lyla Lexie

    My deepest sympathies to you for your loss. The thing I hope most people will take away from this is to raise not only their daughters but also their sons with a deep respect for all genders as individual and equal human beings, all with the right to make their own decisions and to live life in the way they choose without fear of being controlled or threatened. I can’t imagine the pain you must still go through after experiencing such a terrible event. 🙁 I hope it lessens over time.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Women: Stop blaming your silly “life problems,” like sexual abuse, murder, and systemic oppression on men, you weaklings!

    • Cassandra

      Pull yourself up by your bootstraps! Empower yourself with some lipgloss!

  • Meghan Murphy

    What you’re asking me is to guess at everything the perpetrator could have possibly been thinking before/when he killed his female victim rather than simply point to/critique the actual words (and implications of said words) used by the media and police. You’re also asking me to ignore systemic oppression/context for this kind of violence, as well as basic facts. idk but i’m not sure what you’re suggesting would have been possible, ethical, or helpful.

    • DuckAndCover

      If you claim that this was all about entitlement and nothing else, that’s when you are guessing (your guess was that besides feelings of entitlement there was nothing else going on in his mind, but your guess is as good as anyone else’s).

      If you claim that feelings of entitlement were dominant in his thinking, then you *don’t* have to guess about what other thoughts and feelings might have been going through his mind. You can support this latter claim by pointing to the statistical difference in how women deal with break-ups versus how men deal with it.

      • Meghan Murphy

        You aren’t getting this. Whatever the personal, private, individual feelings of men who beat and kill women are not as relevant (nor are they ever really original) as you think. We’re talking about systemic violence and systemic oppression, here, and you’re obsessing over his “feelings” which, one supposes, somehow justifies his behaviour and makes gender irrelevant in all of this? You might ask yourself why you are focusing so much of the “feelings” of a man who killed a woman, simply because she broke up with him/didn’t behave in a way he liked.

        • DuckAndCover

          Yes, I’m sorry that I can’t seem to make myself clear (at all).

        • Bakari Wilkins

          I feel as if your views are more similar to his than you think.

          “The fact that statistically men kill more often suggests that
          patriarchal values and male entitlement are at the root of the problem.”

          “Maybe to the author this nuance is not such a big deal, because fixing the patriarchy (regardless of any assumptions about how men tick) will cause a huge drop in violence, and this is what matters.”

          I think that OP is talking about systemic violence and oppression, and regards it to be a much bigger problem than the killer’s feelings, with a reasoning that is similar to yours. I don’t think that he regards gender to be irrelevant to the situation, and I really don’t think he is trying to justify the killer’s behavior.

          I think that he is saying that he agrees with your article in terms of the common portrayal of murder and abuse in the media being unacceptable. But also I think he is saying that his problem with your argument is that it seems to him like you aren’t allowing the situation to have any nuance. I think he’s saying that the article and lots of the discussion in this comments section doesn’t really acknowledge the fact that we couldn’t possibly know the entirety of what the killer was thinking or feeling. ( e.g. “I think it’s possible that the killer felt a whole array of emotions, even contradictory ones.”)

          I hope that this can add to the discussion.

      • Tangelo

        Colin Kingston stopped by a store and purchased a large knife. He went to Kelsey Annese’s house, broke in, went up to her bedroom and murdered her. If the taking of another person’s life does not demonstrate a clear sense of entitlement over the body and life of another being, then what does ?

  • vagabondii

    Well, Colin wasn’t in a tragic circumstance. He created a tragic circumstance. The circumstance he was in was just that he got dumped, which isn’t fun but it happens to everyone and it hardly counts as tragic. Then he decided to murder people.

    It’s tragic for his victims, it’s tragic for his family and the other survivors, but to say that they were “all” in “a tragic circumstance” makes it sound like everyone is equally innocent and it’s just one of those things that happen that no one can prevent.

  • Cassandra

    FYI: Male privilege is something males have, whether they want it or not. Understanding the existence of male privilege is not the same as Men = Bad. You’re in way over your head here.

    You may find yourself more welcome on a Men’s Rights Movement website. The most prominent ones were recognized as hate sites a few years back, but as you sound nearly indistinguishable from an MRA, it might be a better fit for you. They always welcome handmaidens of the patriarchy.

  • Cpt_Justice

    This sort of post adds to the problem by derailing the conversation from a crucial point & burying it in a false premise.

  • Morag999

    Maybe Laura means that we should stop whining and just get out there and kill us some men? You know, take the bull by the horns and change those pesky statistics to create “equality.” Then there would be no more need to talk about “male violence” which is so upsetting to so many nice guys and the women who love them. Perhaps that would be much less offensive to her than icky feminism? Something to consider.

  • Cpt_Justice

    Yes, people like you ARE part of the problem because when confronted with your uninformed statement of false equivalency – “women do it, too!”, when the facts are that women do NOT do it in anywhere near the numbers that men do – you then erect a strawman. NO ONE is “blaming all of life’s problems on men”, JUST the problem of MALE VIOLENCE. Are you suggesting we blame WOMEN for MALE violence?.

    Yes, we’re going to get mad at a woman – or anyone! – who tries to derail a serious discussion with a statistical non-issue. And when you insist that *everyone* who ever murdered is “mentally ill”, you not only reduce personal responsibility, you defame ALL people with mental issues, and put just that much more onus on people who are already struggling with coming forward to get their problems dealt with.

    • BobTrent

      Even if TWICE as many men were severely, violently abused, murdered, by women as women by men, the owner of this website has the right to limit the discussion to male violence against women. So quit complaining that the site doesn’t address female violence against men to your liking. Start yourself own website. Free hosts abound.

  • Cpt_Justice

    Why is this ALWAYS the response when some WHITE guy murders a woman – or, better yet, a group of women?

  • Cpt_Justice

    Except that you’re missing a pattern of which this is but one easily recognizable example.

  • Cpt_Justice

    Yeah, we should totally ignore the easily identifiable reasons why he did it because you’re obviously afraid to acknowledge them. I know it’s scary to live in a world where you could be murdered at any moment & then your murder prettified by having it be called a “crime of passion”, but Stockholm Syndrome isn’t going to make that go away. Acknowledging it & fighting AGAINST it is the only answer.

  • Cpt_Justice

    Tone policing at its finest.

  • Cpt_Justice

    It’s fear. It reminds me a little of women who come up with reasons why other women get raped, all in an effort to prove to themselves that “it will never happen to them”. By pushing away the harshest facts of the tragedy – that it was a man who felt entitled to murder a woman who rejected him – she is obviously trying to protect herself, if only mentally. The biggest clue to her fear was in the phrase “100 feet away.” She’s terrified, and in denial.

  • Cpt_Justice

    You’re half right. Of course the men in your life are wonderful. The men in my life are also wonderful. Most men, in fact, are perfectly fine – even the ones who *aren’t* “wonderful”! But, obviously *way too many* men aren’t even decent, & ARE toxicly violent. Of course it’s not a majority – but is that what it would take for you to realize there’s a problem, & it’s not just that “all THOSE *bad* men are crazy”?

  • Cpt_Justice

    You haven’t been taking the discussion at all; you’ve been cherry-picking & mis-characterizing what people have been saying. NO ONE HAS SAID “because they are men,they are bad.” NO ONE.

  • Cpt_Justice

    You are adding to what was said. “All men are raised in an anti-female society” is ABSOLUTELY NOT the same as saying “all men are monsters.” At *best* it’s saying “all men have society’s permission to become monsters.” The difference between “lightning” & “lightning bug”.

  • Cpt_Justice

    If I follow you correctly, you are correct. This whole situation is wrongly normalized by society, thereby excusing it, which in turn makes it more prevalent. I also think that anyone who excuses this sort of behavior *does* insult men, but I’m not sure the article went that far. I may have missed it.

  • Cpt_Justice

    We do have a way of knowing, because it’s all too common a scenario.

  • Cpt_Justice

    If she were actually “prioritizing truth & honesty”, then she wouldn’t be defending someone who tried to derail a discussion on the problem of male-on-female violence with a false-equivalency to female-on-male violence, & she wouldn’t be trying to attack the people who did try to shut down his inappropriate remarks. The responses she got were “feminists willing to criticize a feminist”.

    And if YOU were “prioritizing truth & honesty” you wouldn’t have thrown out the strawman of “females banding together to stick it to the man”

  • Cpt_Justice

    Yes, the motive was the break-up. He was determined that if he couldn’t have her, no one could. Classic male entitlement & dominance. By shifting the WORDS from “his vicious entitlement” to “the break-up”, we create a false excuse for the criminal. This doesn’t help anyone. Except the criminal. And others like him.

  • Cpt_Justice

    “2 male victims”? If you are saying that the MURDERER is a victim, then please do not breed.

  • Cpt_Justice

    Thank you for saving me the trouble of making just such a post.

  • Cpt_Justice

    But not their own facts, no matter how hard they try to push them onto the site.

  • Cpt_Justice

    If you think he “loved” her, or that “his pain” in any way excuses or even mitigates this crime, then I want you to talk to a psychologist before you get involved with anyone. See? THAT”s a personal problem you can fix!

  • Cpt_Justice

    I CAUGHT THAT, TOO! FRIGHTENING!!!

  • Cpt_Justice

    What I find disturbing is once again we are FORCED to be talking about “men” killing women – especially ones who were NOT”their partners” – like this, FAR MORE than women do, & for inexcusable reasons.

  • Cpt_Justice

    Why do you not look up the stats?

  • BecJT

    Laura, go and look up the Freedom Programme and their book ‘Living with the Dominator’ (this is a UK programme that helps women ‘deprogramme’ from domestic abuse in all it’s forms, it’s kinda like being indoctrinated into a cult, I should know it happened to me). http://www.freedomprogramme.co.uk/docs/freedomprog-chapter2.pdf

    Women who kill men, evidence shows, have usually been subjected to prolonged domestic abuse (think Julia Roberts at the end of ‘Sleeping with the Enemy’ – trashy film, but proves my point here) and they can’t stand it anymore or it’s him or her, he’s going to kill her.

    Then go and look up the Duluth Model – this was based on work with male perpetrators. The issue with domestic abuse is academics, helping professionals and the world at large collude with his excuses. Statistically abusers are no more mentally ill than the population at large etc etc etc.

    Also work with perpetrators showed one clear thing – usually they are not angry, perpetrators will even talk about throwing the dinner up the wall in a fit of ‘rage’ at ‘woman height’ – ie they have no intention of clearing up gravy themselves. They use fake anger to control, what have they got to be angry about? She’s right where they want her. Male perpetrators (in groups in prison) often refer to women as CFCs – cooking, fucking, cleaning.

    They abuse and torture the pets, turn the children against their own mother by always referring to her as ‘cunt’ and ‘slut’ … the sorry list goes on. Often women are imprisoned in their own homes. Most murders happen as women are planning to leave or just after they leave.

    You are vastly misinformed about the reality of domestic violence – these guys often kill their own children too (often not killing the woman) as a last ‘fuck you’ to her, before they kill themselves. Not because they ‘can’t live without her’ but even from beyond the grave, they want to control her, drag her down with guilt, grief, powerlessness. Because every day he’ll loom like some demented spectre over her life, she can never, ever, ever get away from him. Which is why they do it …

    Domestic abusers use access to the children to harrass her, women having to watch judges decree, ‘just because he was a bad husband doesn’t make him a bad father’ despite 90% of domestic assault happening in front of children or with them in the next room. Many claims of male domestic abuse by women, are by men like this, fighting for custody. I’ve worked in this area and know many women who also do.

    Germaine Greer was right, some women are naive about the extent to which some men really hate us. Not all. But the cause is the beliefs our culture perpetuates about women, from the casual ‘her indoors’ you hear in the pub to the really gross and disgusting reality of porn.

    That said, millions of men are mentally ill, insecure, addicted, had an awful time with an ex girlfriend, had an abusive mother, blah blah blah and they DON’T abuse people – those are excuses and not reasons, the tragedy is a perpetrator might even access ‘anger management’ for his ‘problem’ and he’ll be met with approval by people who are equally ignorant of why these men actually do it.

    Most of the good work happening with female survivors is based on what was learned from male perpetrators, it really blew the thing wide open as men themselves actually said why they did it and why they did were because of the ‘rules’ http://www.freedomprogramme.co.uk/images/rules.pdf and professionals realised they were buying into the male excuses … there are no excuses, and it happens because these guys hate women.

    Sorry to burst your bubble. And no I don’t hate men, have lots of lovely men in my life, thanks, I just feel very passionately about the ignorance spouted on this subject.

    (sorry for disjointed post, it’s extremely late but I just had to comment).

    • MDDinTX

      Thank you for this comment and this link. I am a 40 yo mother and for the last 3 generations of women in my family, assault, abusive relationships, and broken marriages are endemic. I have not seen a healthy marriage, so I’m not sure how to have one. My walls are steel, and it doesn’t hurt me at all (!) anymore to read about bad things that happen to women for no good reason at all, though I maintain a low, constant level of seething about it. I read all about this “Dominator”; I know him well. He existed before I was born in my family tree and today I still teach my children how to best manage his tricks. However, 2 years ago I found my soulmate, by some miracle. He is this “decent human being,” but I promise, to me he IS a saint. He is every one of the things written there and more. Reading the bad things didn’t touch my stone heart, but seeing my perfect new husband described so precisely and being reminded, again, of his unbelievable capacity for love and kindness toward me and my children broke my heart in two. So here I sit sobbing, and tomorrow I probably need to call the therapist because I’m TOO happy.

      • Cpt_Justice

        OK, now *I’m* crying because you are happy & safe!

      • Melissa Cutler

        I hear you about growing up not knowing what a happy marriage looks like. Or what a happy, self-confident, self-possessed woman looks like. So glad that you’re happy now with your new husband. We CAN break the cycle and we CAN show our children a better path. <3

    • Melissa Cutler

      Thank you for this, BecJT. It was so on point that, as a survivor of both childhood abuse and spousal abuse, it was rather triggering (which is not a negative, but a testament to how correct you are). Thank you again for weighing in.

    • BobTrent

      A friend’s dad (now deceased) ran a refuge for abused women and their children. He had to stop having a phone there because of incidents of women calling their abusers, telling them where they were, followed by him having to hold off the abusers at gunpoint until the sheriff could get there to haul them away to jail.
      Every one of the abusers came armed with a firearm. None would go away even when threatened with buckshot.

  • AndyMatts

    Very, very true. Despite the other completely disgusting characterizations of these actions, I did not see that terminology being used. It was introduced, as far as i can tell, by the author.

    • Cpt_Justice

      Oh, I see. The phrases “We believe Mr Kingston was distraught over the breakup, which led to the events yesterday,” & ““Did a broken heart lead Colin Kingston to kill two people?” & “A 24-year-old New York man angry about a recent breakup fatally stabbed his ex-girlfriend and another SUNY-Geneseo college student before killing himself,” couldn’t possibly be saying “crime of passion’ – as near as you can tell, right?

  • Meghan Murphy

    We know that men kill men too. We know that men are doing all the male violence. That’s why it’s called “male violence.”

  • Meghan Murphy

    omg. bye.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Good, so what you’re saying is that men can’t control themselves. Shall I assume, in that case, you support my suggestion of a curfew for men? Or, idk, we could keep them all on an island somewhere?

    • marv

      The Antarctica is the most suitable relocation. Frozen balls would lower testosterone related aggression – the chilling effect.

      • Bryan Brown

        This is insulting and abusive to men and is hypocritical of you to say given that you are I assume, opposed to aggression, violence etc (as am I) and want it stopped. I thought I was on a website that was somewhat enlightened and possibly open minded to discussing how violence could be dealt with properly but I see that you and others who comment like this are simply as bad as male aggressors, yourselves. To suggest that men should be send to Antarctic like this is demeaning and abusive in itself. You are no better, in fact, you are as bad as any male who discusses committing violence towards women. How do you justify this hypocracy??

        • Meghan Murphy

          It’s spelt “hypocrisy.”

          • Bryan Brown

            Thank you.

  • Est Ban

    Nonsense! He didn’t do this because of control he did it cause he was demented. Fact is insane murderers are more commonly male than female in all human societies regardless of cultural upbringing. This propensity for killer males is also seen in our closest primate relatives. My advice avoid crazy men and you will live longer

    • Meghan Murphy

      How do you propose one “avoid[s] crazy men,” pray tell?

      • ReneeParpart
        • Meghan Murphy

          Have you ever been in an abusive relationship? Oftentimes, women don’t start to realize all this stuff until they’re already in… I’m much better at noticing red flags, like, right way, having been in an abusive relationship myself and having learned so much about abusers, but some of these guys are masters of manipulation. Very intelligent, educated women fall prey.

    • Cpt_Justice

      He’s only “demented” because he’s white. Black men who murder are “animals” and “thugs”. Try again.

    • Cassandra

      Nonsense! Male violence is not the same as mental illness. That is a way of excusing it. Murderer and insane have to be separated.

    • therealcie

      They don’t do us the favor of wearing signs declaring “hello, I am a controlling sociopath who will destroy your life.” Many of these men present as sympathetic initially. They seek out vulnerable women with low self esteem.

    • Devogenes

      Wow what an insightful piece of advice.

      Some more good ones: don’t be born into poverty, and don’t walk near drunk drivers!

  • DuckAndCover

    Yes, I know about hormonal differences, but still I believe that your beliefs (such as patriarchal beliefs) are more influential than your hormone levels. If someone grows up in a healthy environment (where they feel safe,
    develop a healthy sense of self esteem and learn to express themselves)
    then I think that person is not going to be at a big risk of becoming
    violent, even if they have a high testosterone level. But if you teach boys that they are somehow better than girls, that they are
    not supposed to cry, and that they should “prove their worth” by being
    stronger than other boys, then you are creating problems (I suppose that upbringing is not a factor that the studies you mention have taken into account, I’m also not sure if it would even be possible to do this).

    • Cpt_Justice

      It *has* to be society, because MOST men *control themselves*. You;d think it would be painfully obvious, but I guess my answer is in the word “painful”.

  • Cpt_Justice

    Yes,men have more levels of testosterone. Are you suggesting that this automatically means they aren’t capable of controlling themselves? Or that we should test for a maximum level of testosterone that can be safely allowed out in public?

  • Cpt_Justice

    Who are the ones INFLICTING the violence ON those men you are concerned about?
    Who was the one who MURDERED this woman’s boyfriend, and WHY?
    OOOPS.
    If anyone is the pot calling the kettle black, it’s you, except there’s no black kettle here. You are decrying our complaint that male-on-female violence is a distinct problem, & yet all you are really doing is pointing out that “men are more violent than women.

    • Cassandra

      “…& yet all you are really doing is pointing out that “men are more violent than women.”
      Yup. They’re a bunch of geniuses, these guys.

  • Cassandra

    Then people with high levels of testosterone should not be allowed near other people. So sick of you biological apologists.

  • Cassandra

    Blah blah blah MRA platitude rape apologist whiney baby playing the victim card Blah blah blah MRA platitude Blah blah blah MRA platitude your for you’re Blah blah blah MRA platitude rape apologist whiney baby playing the victim card Blah blah blah MRA platitude Blah blah blah MRA platitude Blah blah your for you’re blah MRA platitude rape apologist whiney baby playing the victim card Blah blah blah MRA platitude Blah blah blah MRA platitude Blah blah your for you’re blah MRA platitude rape apologist whiney baby your for you’re playing the victim card Blah blah blah MRA platitude Blah blah blah MRA your for you’re into infinity.

    Men are victims of violence by OTHER MEN you fucking moron. Go fuck off to your macaroni & cheese dinner in front of the gaming console.

  • Cassandra

    I’m really not sure what your point is. I don’t think you know what your point is, except to make it seem that we are somehow wrong for being women and talking about male violence against women, which is perpetrated for much different reasons (and as part of a system of oppression) than is male violence committed against other males. If you’re so gung-ho to solve male violence, get the fuck out of here and go make a banner and march in front of the White House. How about:

    I’m an MRA idjut
    men are the killers

    Put it on helvetica and you’ll seem super hip,

  • BetelgeuseBoom

    I hate to disappoint you, but I cannot grant this favor to the gene pool as I am engaged. Although according to this website there is a good chance I will suddenly become extremely violent and murder my fiance. Geez let’s hope not.

    • Meghan Murphy

      You should probably ship yourself off to Man Island just to be safe, tho…

    • NoMoreFalseGods

      You engaged? Congratulations! Did you buy her a ring or did she buy you one? Either way, treat each other with respect and kindness so your future children will know how to love one another. When you got 25 happy years under your belt as I do you may find your opinion of domestic situations will change. 😉

  • Cpt_Justice

    How long will it take for you to realize that all your derailment arguments boil down to NOTHING BUT “Men are dangerous”? You can pretend there isn’t a specific problem about men killing women over male entitlement, but your “proofs” are only MAKING OUR POINT FOR US.

  • tinfoil hattie

    No, I see. Sorry I jumped to conclusions. You’re good.
    🙂

  • tinfoil hattie

    Ancient Alien Theorists say: “Yes.”

  • tinfoil hattie

    Google “Wendy Maldonado.”

  • tinfoil hattie

    No man is forced to buy an engagement ring. If a man goes into debt for something he doesn’t want to buy for his future wife, he’s marrying the wrong woman.

  • tinfoil hattie

    This “broken man” was created by our misogynist society that believes wimen are the property of men.

  • DuckAndCover

    It depends on how you think the mind works. I believe that the mind can have simultaneous conflicting desires (for example the desire to hurt as well as the desire to be kind) and depending on the situation, some desires will win and others lose.

    • tinfoil hattie

      If you have a capacity for abuse and murder, you have no capacity for love.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Oh god. Gross. That really does make me worry that maybe her husband wasn’t shy about watching them/lusting after them.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Thanks Janet

  • Melissa Cutler

    Thank you for saying that. Becoming involved in the feminist movement has been so empowering and life altering.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Of course learning red flags and avoiding these types of men is important but, at the end of the day, suggesting women simply “avoid” abusive men in order to stop abuse from happening is victim-blaming and entirely unrealistic. Men need to be held accountable for their actions.

  • tinfoil hattie

    Well, I became a hardliner after my 4-year old was victimized about once a year, over a 6-year period. So there’s where my viewpoint comes from.

  • Steffen Cole Blake

    You all here seem to think I disagree with you that this is a problem.

    My point is this IS a big problem, but not only that, the problem is EVEN BIGGER than what you are all discussing. You are all looking at a small part of the problem, when the inherent issue is several orders of magnitude worse than you are discussing.

    I am fully aware that society has raised violent, aggressive men.

    If one just focuses on male on female violence, you miss the much bigger picture and you don’t see that the problem is so much more than just that.

    I’m not apologizing, I’m pointing out that the problem is even bigger and that if we only focus on a small part of it, we’ll never solve anything.

    But you are all so quick to be defensive about the subject you aren’t realising I’m on your damn side, lol.

    • Melissa Cutler

      If you could just pour all that righteous indignation and energy into your own “End Male Violence” activism instead of worrying about our activism, just imagine the possibilities! But the fact that you are wasting your time trying to mansplain to feminists that we don’t really get the problem and that we’re “just as shitty” as other “scumbags” that wrote about these murders tells us quite clearly that you care more about telling us we’re wrong than addressing the actual problem of male violence or changing the world for the better.

      And, for the record, you are most definitely not on my damn side. lol.

    • MJ

      The problem is that men kill men for money, revenge or power. They kill women because they are women who they need to possess. Big difference. Men die because someone wants their possessions. Women die because they are the possessions. What is so hard for you to understand that?

  • Morag999

    “Not all people with high testosterone kill people. But nearly all people who kill have high testosterone.”

    The only people with high testosterone are men. Up to 10 times as much as the average woman, if I remember correctly. So let’s don’t take any chances — we’re talking about a threat to people’s lives, here — and lock ’em all up.

    ‘Nope, you don’t understand logical disjunctions I see’

    Please, go tell your brothers that when they cry “not ALL men!” in response to the fact that nearly all sexual assaults and other forms of violence are committed by men.

  • Meghan Murphy

    That’s true. In general I don’t post MRA-type comments or WHAT ABOUT THE MEN-type comments unless I think they might be fun to mock. My selective/heavy moderation is what makes this comment section tolerable for feminists. I really don’t care what anti-feminists think about this site, this forum, or my moderation. Like, at all.

  • AmeliaEve

    My condolences to you and your family.

  • Alexes Ciardi

    On of my exes was extremely emotionally abusive. It took two months and a lot of support from friends to break up with him, and for a solid month I was terrified that he would show up at my house. NONE of this is okay. This has to stop, and our society has to stop letting it fly under the radar. Women are not possessions.

  • Melanie Willingham

    You’re only proving that statistically, men are almost always the violent perpetrators who shouldn’t be allowed in public

  • Bakari Wilkins

    I think that OP more or less agrees with your views on male entitlement.

    “…fixing the patriarchy (regardless of any assumptions about how men tick) will cause a huge drop in violence, and this is what matters.”

    I think that OP is saying that the killer’s sense of entitlement, and patriarchal values in general, are and should be the main focus in cases like these. If I am interpreting them correctly, however, they’re also saying that we cannot know the /entirety/ of what the killer was feeling, even if we can all agree on the fact that entitlement was a large of it.

  • I am too. So sorry for your loss.

  • trigger warning

    “mens violence against women” great selective work
    wonder how the families of the other victim would feel

    • Cassandra

      That’s not what’s being discussed here.

  • namesareirrelevant

    Yes, it’s victim blaming. Everyone educated stopped listening when you started whining about women’s intuition and how they were to blame for men killing them by not using it and blaming mothers for male rapists raping children.

    Stop talking. Educate yourself.

  • namesareirrelevant

    Nope. Many women have extremely high amounts of testosterone. Many women with low testosterone are aggressive and violent. The spectrum is so wide it is absolutely pointless to even mention testosterone or biology.

    What we absolutely do know is that men kill women because society breeds men to be violent, rage filled, aggressive and over entitled thugs. And once we have sorted that problem out, you get to try your biological apologist tactics. And only then.

  • namesareirrelevant

    Stop talking. Stop trolling. We get it you like to make excuses for men. Now fuck off.

  • It’sMyOpinion

    ONE way, and I repeat, just ONE way to discourage “possessive” behavior in men is to not allow men to do too much for you, buy you things, act as your macho “protector,” and the decision maker. That right there is enough for many men to feel that you owe them or that you are their “bought and paid for” property. Be your own woman.

    Even with that, you can never know what type of man you are involved with with until it is often too late. Just be very careful.

  • Jo Thomas

    Wow, you’ve really shattered my perception of that guy. I mean, he was my hero.

  • cvxxx

    Language defines how we thing and process information and behavior. In Arabic there is no word for personal space. If we no longer see other people as possessions then we change behavior. Think of “my boyfriend”. That denotes that the speaker has a possession of another human being. Yes,we have used the phrase for centuries without thought.
    Jack Vance in his fictional book the languages of Pao brought forth the concept of occupational functional language. Today,it is common to have occupational jargon.

  • MJ

    Right on! Internalized sexism and misogyny are rampant. We shouldn’t question anything out of respect for the victims. We should just expect women to die for simply refusing to be a mans possession anymore. /s

  • Alara Rogers

    Funnily enough they rarely kill people who are more powerful than they are. If they can’t control themselves, then why not? Wouldn’t you think a person with power over you would be more likely to earn your uncontrollable rage than a person you have power over?

  • Cassandra

    “But nearly all people who kill have high testosterone.”

    I doubt that this true. What they have in common is being male.

    Not all men harass women, but all women have been harased by men.

  • marv

    “On intimate partner violence: The system does not investigate far enough.”

    No. It’s because the system of culture, marriage and family are built on male dominance. Investigating parents, grandparents and friends won’t lead you to the deeper issues because the investigators too are guided by the same patriarchal disposition. It doesn’t mean every man is violent but as a whole men have more power than women creating the social conditions for systemic violence. If we only examine all our personal relationships’ dynamics as the source of the problem we remain on the psychological surface of the societal structures at the root of dominance and submission.

  • Cueio Monamú

    Here we have a “normal male” who thinks about harming his ex.
    That’s great when males admit they are all about domination, power, oppression and violence, but still so sad most women, to this today, refuse to acknowledge the fact that most straight males are misogynistic, dangerous and unworthy of our consideration.

    People who love don’t want to control, kill nor ever think about any of it.

  • Cueio Monamú

    Males proving, over and over again, the degeneracy that’s so natural to them.

    “It’s easy to point the finger!”
    Hell no, we are pointing our fingers to a murderer!

    STFU and GTFO.

  • BobTrent

    Instead of the woman leaving, if she has any “premonitions” of violence, stop trying to “work things out” by “talking things out.” 99% of women have a cellphone. Call – don’t threaten to call – the police secretly and tell them that the husband/boy”friend”/ex has threatened you and that you’re afraid to just leave. Do this even if it’s his apartment or house. Unless the police in your area are totally dysfunctional incompetent klutzes they will remove him.
    Now, while he is out, get out. Go to a battered women’s shelter, not to Mum’s or a girlfriend’s. If he is really dangerous, you don’t want him coming to your parent’s or friend’s place and finding you there.
    Change your cellphone number.
    Years ago, I met a really sweet lady in Florida who had come to the east coast from the Gulf (west) coast to get away from her ex-boy”friend.” A “helpful” girl”friend” who thought (?) it was just a misunderstanding that could be “worked out” and thought (??) that they should get back together told him where she had gone. He followed her and renewed stalking her.
    Not desiring to get beaten or shot over her, I suggested that she go to a women’s crisis/shelter for assistance in getting rid of this possibly dangerous creep. Don’t know what came of this, as I moved away shortly after.

  • BobTrent

    Doesn’t justify male violence against women. This is not a balance on which one male abused by a female cancels out one female abused by a male. Outright murder of a man by a woman not related to defense against a man’s violence against a woman is quite rare.

  • BobTrent

    Doesn’t justify male violence against women. This is not a balance on which one male abused by a female cancels out one female abused by a male. Outright murder of a man by a woman not related to defense against a man’s violence against a woman is quite rare..

  • BobTrent

    Anyone physically able to deal death blows is able to kill. There is no way to determine if a person who has never displayed violent tendencies will ever or never kill, or attempt to kill, another. Humans are just plain dangerous.

  • BobTrent

    And where do they get weapons? From men. From the “patriarchy.” Women who are adept at martial arts reduce the possibility of being abused or murdered. They don’t eliminate it. The exercise is good for you, too. Why waste time on yoga when you can be taking Tae Kwan Do or MMA? No decent man should fear his wife or gf being better able to deter violence against her. She might even defend him, too! It also quells any glimmer of temptation to smack her. Good people have the possibility of punishment to back up their morals.

    • marv

      Crude mansplaining.

  • BobTrent

    The lady (in Florida?) who fired a warning shot, thereby deterring her ex from murdering her got the hammer dropped on her. She didn’t want to kill or harm him. She just wanted him to go away and leave her alone. She was treated worse than if she had just gone ahead and shot him dead.

  • BobTrent

    Perhaps “men as a whole” don’t feel entitled to murder women. They aren’t the problem. The problem is those who do feel entitled to murder women, or one particular woman, because their butts are hurt.

  • BobTrent

    No, Jason. Women don’t behave as if fueled by testosterone. Men do, because we are. That isn’t all of it but it’s a big part.

  • BobTrent

    You realise for every act of man on woman violence that occur, statistically three other men were victims of man on man violence?”
    So what? So what? You realise that there are other websites that address man on man and man on people violence??

  • BobTrent

    You realise for every act of man on woman violence that occur, statistically three other men were victims of man on man violence?”
    So what? So what? You realize that there are other websites that address man on man and man on people violence?