Put your tits away, I'm trying to watch the show

A couple of weeks ago I went to Pemberton Music Festival — a music fest that takes place in a small village north of Whistler, in B.C. It was amazing and perfect in almost every way. Pemberton is overwhelmingly beautiful, even to someone like me, who grew up in B.C., surrounded by the kind of scenery most people only see on postcards. The lineup was fantastic. Watching Kendrick Lamar perform in front of a backdrop of spectacular mountains was mind-blowing. Chance the Rapper, Frank Ocean, and Outkast gave monumental performances. I have nary a critique for the whole festival. Except one thing:

I’m tired of the tits.

I am positive that this particular complaint will result in a number of people telling me I’m a prudish boob-hater, but in other breaking news, grass is green and rain is wet.

I have been going to hip hop shows since forever. Almost exclusively. So I’m pointing at hip hop here not because I think it’s any more sexist than any other music genre — because it is most certainly not — but because my music fandom has been dedicated to hip hop for 20 years and these are the shows I’m at. And I am so tired of having to shut down parts of my brain in order to enjoy the music I love.

When you’re at a show, watching your dreams come true in the form of Outkast, live and in the flesh, and your rap-heros complain, as Big Boi did, “I can’t see no titties,” it’s jarring. And kind of hurtful, to be honest. I was up at the very front, pressed up against the railing, so I couldn’t see how many women responded to the encouragement to flash their breasts, but it was impossible to miss it completely, thanks to the screens next to the stage, showing video of the crowd. Looking up to see the camera zoom in on a pair of fake breasts on the big screen takes you out of the moment, making you have to work to get back into it. It also serves as a helpful reminder that hip hop (and again, this could be extended to many other music genres — Hi, rock, punk, metal, reggae) is still for the boys. Women are welcome, of course, so long as they’re shaking it for an audience.

During “She Lives in My Lap” the entire backdrop was filled with a video of a mostly-naked model, dancing, legs spread for much of the time. At the end of the song she takes off her underwear. If you ever needed a quick lesson in feminist film theory and a literal example of the “male gaze,” that was it. Her naked, sexualized body was made into wallpaper.

Like, is it completely impossible for male performers to imagine that 1) their entire audience is not just dudes, and 2) YOUR SET WILL STILL BE DOPE EVEN WITHOUT NAKED LADIES?

There were many more moments of objectification throughout the show and preceding André’s performance of “Hey Ya,” he invited some women on stage to “shake it,” specifically requesting those “not wearing any panties.”

It’s no surprise that naked breasts abounded at renowned (intentional) asshole and misogynist, Tyler the Creator’s set (I did let out a lonely boo from the beer garden after “Bitch Suck Dick”), but no one goes to see Outkast for tits and woman-hating. They go because they love hip hop.

There are some groups that are known and popular because they objectify women. Outkast is not one of those groups. It’s something that’s completely unnecessary and, call me naive, but can’t you just not? Can’t you just choose not to objectify women? Can’t you choose, during a festival where people are drunk and high and where there is a very real risk of sexual assault (because as much fun as these festivals are, women are victimized quite often…), not to contribute to an atmosphere where women are turned into part of the entertainment — for men — instead of equal and respected members of the audience? Can’t we just be fans? Why do we have to perform?

I want to enjoy a show without being reminded that all my favorite rappers are sexist. I’ve spent 20 years trying to reconcile my hip hop fandom with my feminism and it never stops being a challenge. And it hurts! It hurts to constantly be reminded that the music you love so much is made by people who are too lazy and selfish to think about the impact this kind of imagery and attitude might have on you and their other female fans.
I’m not going looking to vilify Outkast and I’m not going to stop loving their music, but I want them to do better — and I want other male artists to do better. Can you do us a favour and let us just watch the show?

(Southernplayalisticadillacmuzik is my favorite Outkast track and one of my favorite hip hop songs of all time. And look! No tits! It’s just that easy.)

Meghan Murphy
Meghan Murphy

Founder & Editor

Meghan Murphy is a freelance writer and journalist. She has been podcasting and writing about feminism since 2010 and has published work in numerous national and international publications, including New Statesman, Vice, Al Jazeera, The Globe and Mail, I-D, Truthdig, and more. Meghan completed a Masters degree in the department of Gender, Sexuality and Women’s Studies at Simon Fraser University in 2012 and lives in Vancouver, B.C. with her dog.

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  • “is it completely impossible for male performers to imagine that 1) their entire audience is not just dudes”

    I think this because in a patriarchal society women are suppose to like being objectified and also like seeing other women being objectified.

    We’re not suppose to understand that we can live without being objectified, and that objectification is dehumanization.
    Since we’ve been trained to be objectified since birth, it has become “normal” and banalized.

    I mean, these males know that there are women is in the audience, and what these males think is that women enjoy the objectification of other women as much as men do.

    • Meghan Murphy

      Definitely. Women learn they are supposed to think objectification is fun and sexy and force it/fake it.

    • CD

      Yep. One of my male co-workers tried to convince me that going to strip clubs is “fun for women, too”. And he wasn’t talking about lesbians and bisexual women, but straight women who are trying to prove how cool they are by doing guy things (and throwing other women under the bus). So, it’s not surprising that it sends a message to men that it’s somehow normal to objectify women, or that women enjoy it.

      And anyway, as modern feminist thought would have it, we’re no longer allowed to question anything related to gender roles: http://www.theonion.com/articles/women-now-empowered-by-everything-a-woman-does,1398/

    • derrington

      http://www.object.org.uk/files/pornographic%20performances/Pornographic_Performances_FINAL_Aug_2014.pdf

      Here is a link to a just published report from Object and End Violence Against Women and Girls coalition in the UK about the music industry’s portrayal of women, particularly black women in sexist and racist ways. I think white and black male rap artists that play into the racist and sexist promotions are the equivalent of women that work in the sex industry. They have found a niche within society that works for them as individuals but shoots them in the head as part of that social caste. To my mind, they are the equivalent of strike breakers in union disputes over workers rights – personal circumstances, fear of retribution or pure self interest might cause them to play the hierarchy’s game … but it is not reality to say they aren’t selling out their fellow caste members human rights at the same time. I understand that we can’t all exhibit the strength of character of Nelson Mandela, but shaking your booty or your street nigga credentials in order to buy yourself that cool mink coat ain’t a blow for social justice in anyone’s book.

  • Well, I blame the women. They should have given him the finger, not shown him their breasts. I mean, geez, they’re not even being paid,, what’s their excuse? How dimwitted are they??

    Maybe when yours is not the only boo… (bravo for that, by the way!)

    • C.K. Egbert

      That seems like blaming the victim, though. Women are socialized from infant hood into thinking that their social validation and acceptance–a genuine human need–is dependent upon performance for the male gaze. Women who do not perform are often socially punished in more or less violent ways.

      Instead, the onus is on the (male) performers to demonstrate respect for women by refusing to use and treat them as “wallpaper” or sex objects to be used.

      I don’t feel victimized by women engaging in this sort of behavior. What victimizes me, and makes me unsafe, is the way in which women’s bodies are considered commodities for consumption by men–by the artists, by the spectators, by a society who doesn’t treat women like human beings and doesn’t prosecute violence against them.

      • C.K., I think that’s stretching the definition of ‘victim’. Someone asking you to do something doesn’t make you a victim if there’s no coercion involved.

        • C.K. Egbert

          I would respectfully disagree, because I am thinking of “coercion” differently. There might not have been direct coercion; instead, the coercion is women’s socialization into thinking her value comes from her sexual objectification (why else would feeling “sexy” make us feel good about ourselves?). Women internalize this message, and the internalization doesn’t mean that there is no coercion–it only means the coercion has become so pervasive that it is invisible.

          This isn’t my idea, by the way, I’m getting this from Catharine MacKinnon (the feminist/legal scholar).

      • derrington

        Also, its not like we come to the conclusion that we have to go along with objectification on our own – there is quite a large amount of violence dished out in the family as well as wider society ensuring that to question sexism is a quick route to getting your head kicked in. Its known as domestic/honour violence and is policed by virtually every male in society against their wives, daughters, girlfriends and mothers.

    • Ellesar

      And how would you feel about the women who do not show their tits, but then have their night ruined because a certain percentage of that audience now feel emboldened to harass them?

      Whether or not ANY women show their tits the demand for them to do so has already made that environment way less safe for any woman who dares to be in the audience without a male protector!

  • Meh

    Absolutely – very well said.

    I kinda went on a “scrap all sexist fuckery” episode last year where I literally stopped listening to/watching any song/film that glamorized the fuckholing of women – and, you know what, I wasn’t left with much.

    I’ve actually lost a lot of respect for singers/artists/actors because of this very reason, tbh. Once I see them pull this sort of bullshit I can’t help but see them as a turd.

    • Meghan Murphy

      It totally makes me lose respect for them! Which I hate… You just feel constantly disappointed…

      • Meh

        It’s constant disappointment/awkwardness. It must have been really scary being in the crowd when that shit was going on… It’s outward hostility towards women.

        P.S. Glad you made it out of there ok… god 🙁

    • jo

      I have no respect for artists who do that either. I got really tired of all sexist media years ago and made a decision to only find and consume music, movies, books etc that’s either by women, or not blatantly sexist. It’s been great to find a lot of amazing artists and writers etc that I probably wouldn’t have heard of if I didn’t do this. It did my soul good to not hear and see misogynist shit as entertainment all the time.

      Now that I see what’s played in the mainstream I’m just bewildered. WTF are they still doing this womanhating pornocrap, and it’s getting worse? So unfresh, so uncool. Why are people falling for it? Why do they allow artists like Robert Thicke to perform without booing him off stage? Oh that’s right, misogyny. Depressing as hell.

      • Michelle

        Hi jo, what are some of the amazing artists and writers that you’ve discovered? I wouldn’t even know where to begin in a search for material that doesn’t blatantly objectify women.

        • norp

          I’m no expert on hip hop, but if you start exploring away from mainstream / top 40 / major label hip hop and more in the vein of, say, what is called “conscious” hip hop, you would probably be going in the right direction. I like The Grouch. He even says this in one of his songs: “can’t be a porn addict no more, that’s smaller than who i’m supposed to be”

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENSWHwyweiE

          see also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscious_hip_hop#Conscious_hip_hop

        • jo

          Oh dear Michelle, I’ve found so much that I don’t know where to begin! Depends on what genres you like!
          Here is how I’ve found new music:
          Looked at youtube videos of female artists from a genre I liked and looked at related videos
          I like a lot of female folk/world/non-mainstream stuff anyway so easier to find non-misogynist shit there
          Found some lists of female friendly rap artists
          I like instrumental music a lot too, that helps, heh

          Writers:
          One genre I like fantasy, so I searched for things like “feminist friendly fantasy books” on the internet
          Asked friends
          Looked at lists of classics and choose the interesting female authors
          Looked at lists of lesbian authors
          Looked for biographies of famous women in history

    • Missfit

      When I look back at the music I used to listen when I was younger, I realize how sexist and violent the lyrics sometimes were and I didn’t really notice then, I didn’t think about it. The fact that it is so common renders it invisible. It’s presented as normal, not as something problematic. So you’re surrounded by sexism and you keep wondering why you don’t feel at ease in the world…

      I too now have no tolerance for misogyny in my entertainment.

      • Meghan Murphy

        There are definitely some rappers I’ve stopped listening to as an adult, that I listened to as a teenager, because I couldn’t deal with the virulent misogyny…

    • Zhanghe

      Same.
      I’m a big fan of videogames, and am immediately turned off and disappointed when a block buster title comes out and it’s yet again, aimed squarely at men and the female characters in it serve as nothing but decoration.
      If I ever openly say that it makes me feel hopeless and shut out of my hobby when time and time again, there are no competent female characters, or when there *is* a competent female character she’s wearing a latex catsuit that shows a defining outline of her nether regions with ridiculous foot wear while running from monsters- men respond to me with absolute rage and venom. I get told I have a victim complex, and that “chicks are determined to ruin gaming forever”.
      Meanwhile, some of the best videogame franchises have starred female characters being real. Like The Walking Dead by Telltale games.
      I remember the crummy feeling I experienced when I finished one of my favourite games ( Fatal Frame series) from Japan, where the protagonists are always female. You go through just as a normal japanese girl, dressed pretty plain, but if you complete the game, you “unlock” a “costume change” where you can play the game over again with the character wearing skimpy lingerie :/ .
      Just like… why? Has it ever occurred to them that the game has a *huge* female audience and maybe they have absolutely no interest in unlocking such a “reward”? It’s like they’re saying, “Hey, all you little boys out there, here’s a special prize for you if you play our game! You know that girl who’s been running from cursed ghosts and discovering the secret of the moon mask? Now you can disregard her entire struggle and have her insipidly run around a terrifying place in a silk teddy!”

      …..

      • jo

        I feel your pain Zhanghe. Sexist men really ruin gaming. Games are supposed to be fun, but they want the entire industry to be some sort of misogynist paradise.

  • Carol

    The only meaningful response to this is to refuse to support/participate in it. Women just have to say no to any aspect of culture that demeans us. Is this really such a sacrifice? If we don’t reject and boycott it this will never end. Asking politely has no effect whatsoever – never has, never will. Remove yourself from it, it’s not worth it. Don’t buy into it and don’t pay for it. Set an example and make it clear that misogyny is unacceptable in all it’s forms and will not be tolerated, accepted, excused or admired ever, under any circumstances. These artists must know there is a price to pay, and the only thing they understand is money, so don’t give it to them unless they earn it by respecting you!

    • Ellesar

      The trouble is that artists who do this sort of thing do not give a shit how women feel about t, or they wouldn’t do it in the first place. Women are not a large enough part of their demographic, particularly women who do not want to endure sexism with their entertainment. Ergo, commercially our withdrawal would be just a blip.

      The more male artists do this the fewer women will be in the audiences, as it does not create a safe environment at all, but I honestly cannot see how it will change. The music industry is extremely sexist on every level, and until enough men want to change that I do not see how there will be more than tokenistic changes.

      • Susan

        Hmm, not sure how many men would want to go to a concert that had no women in attendance. I know it’s a long shot, but I think it would shut things down pretty quick. Perhaps we need a campaign for boycotting such ‘artists’!?

    • Gunhild

      I absolutely agree.

  • pbutterfly2000

    Classical music concerts are actually very nice. And jazz too.

    • norp

      as if there’s no misogyny in those genres?? It may not be lyrics, but it is in those music cultures, too.

  • mike

    I’m actually quite surprised to hear that Meghan’s favorite artists include Outkast, and Kendrick Lamar, the only artists I’m familiar with from the above. I’ve stopped following hip hop music after having had similar difficulty, reconciling the verses with my political beliefs. It seemed too hypocritical to listen to songs promoting violence, and sexist hate-speech, no matter how good the beat, how smooth the rapper flows, or how impressively they give a performance. Notorious B.I.G and Big L, were noted for having great ‘flow’ and performance, but it’s just not worth trying to deal with that cognitive dissonance whenever they come up in my ipod shuffle.

    I’d like to compare this to Meghan’s comments about burlesque and “choice feminism”, when she notes that she wears make-up, but has no illusions that it is feminist, simply because she “chooses” to wear it. It’s just a bit weird to then think of her going to a make-up convention and writing an article afterwards about how it objectified women, promoted messages about how women should wear more make-up, and their main value in the world is based on their appearance. I mean, that’s what make-up companies do to make money right?

    To see an article lamenting about how Kendrick “Bitch don’t kill my vibe” Lamar (“I’m on Instagram looking at your favorite singer, debating on should I fuck or jump on her single; I’m in her mouth like I know I could have kids”) or how Outkast (“Give up all this pussy cat that’s in my lap; if that bitch do you dirty we’ll wipe her ass out as in detergent; my groove be thick as two fat hoes sittin off in a room”) could have objectified women, seems as silly as the above example about a make-up convention. We may like Outkast and Kendrick, but let’s have no illusions that they are/should be feminist simply because we have chosen to listen to them.

    I would disagree with another point here as well, and would argue that such rappers are well-known and popular, because they have objectified women. Hit songs about shaking it like a polaroid picture, fucking any woman one lays eyes on, or being a “player”, lean hard on a sexist angle. Played out themes of threats and violence towards men, and aggressive sexism towards women, are played out precisely because they are popular and resonate with the lowest common denominator, to sell hit records. Just a bit surprising to see an article lamenting about why such artists have to be sexist douchebags when that’s the messages they have built their careers by selling.

    • Meghan Murphy

      I love hip hop and I don’t think that’s ever going to change…

      “I’d like to compare this to Meghan’s comments about burlesque and ‘choice feminism’, when she notes that she wears make-up, but has no illusions that it is feminist, simply because she ‘chooses’ to wear it. It’s just a bit weird to then think of her going to a make-up convention and writing an article afterwards about how it objectified women, promoted messages about how women should wear more make-up, and their main value in the world is based on their appearance. I mean, that’s what make-up companies do to make money right?”

      I don’t think that the idea of hip hop is inherently or universally misogynistic though…

      • mike

        Not the idea of hip-hop, but the idea of artists like Kendrick or Outkast, from what I know of them. Maybe they’ve done some big turn around but even videos like the one you’ve posted with the lyrics about the fat hoes, seems inherently misogynistic.

        • Meghan Murphy

          My point is that it doesn’t make sense to compare a music genre — that is very political at its root, despite what’s happened with regard to mainstream hip hop — to makeup… Which isn’t to say that I would go so far as to argue hip hop is feminist or that my choice to love hip hop is a feminist choice — it isn’t (necessarily). But I still love hip hop and there is lots of great non-sexist and radical, revolutionary hip hop. I don’t want to defend the sexism of artists I’ve loved for so long, but I also don’t want to deny that I love their music… Because I’d be lying.

          • Henke

            Are there any feminist or pro-feminist hip-hop artists by the way ? That is outspoken about it in any way.

          • Henke

            I found this
            Filthy Politicians and the album modern man.

            http://thefilthypoliticians.bandcamp.com/

            Not my cup of tea music wise but the lyrics is very good.

          • croissante

            Not explicitly feminist, but you should check out Dessa. She speaks, amongst other things, about her experience as a woman in hip-hop (“The Bullpen”), abusive relationships (“Mineshaft II”), to family dynamics (“Children’s Work”). Her delivery ranges from softly sung lyrics to spoken word/slam poetry to blistering rap, often within the space of a song, and she switches between a sweet sincerity and a highly sharp, acid tongue often. Far and away my favourite hip-hop artist.

            http://dessa.bandcamp.com/album/a-badly-broken-code

            In terms of other artists, off the top of my head Aesop Rock may be worth investigating, particularly the track “No Regrets”. He’s quite socially conscious, but again not explicitly feminist and he tends to deal with topics such as capitalism (eg. wage slavery) most often.

          • Henke

            Thank you for your answer and link. I will look it up.

      • ozzie

        I agree with mike here. Maybe instead of makeup, an alternative comparison might be porn consumption: they’re both aggressively misogynistic mediums in practice though not necessarily inherently misogynistic; defenses of both usually include “well I acknowledge it’s problematic and not necessarily feminist but I’m not going to stop my consumption”; they’ve both gone through a desensitization of language and imagery over the decades (ie in more recent rap/hip-hop songs I’ve noticed degrading language towards women devolve from “ho”, “bitch”, or “trick” to “gutter”, “ratchet”, “hood rat” etc); racialized misogyny is a component of both; famous/wealthy women in the industry are held up as defenses against accusations of misogyny even though these women are 1)rare and 2)capitulating to the male gaze and male value systems.
        (Not attacking you Meghan, in any way. I just think this is an interesting discussion with many perspectives).

        • Meghan Murphy

          I don’t feel attacked. I’m totally happy to hear your thoughts/criticisms!

          I hear what you’re saying but, from my perspective, porn exists to degrade women and to please men… At the expense of women. I don’t think that’s true of hip hop, at its core, despite the fact that much of it is misogynistic. I won’t defend the misogynistic aspects, but I also don’t feel that it’s at all necessary to dismiss the entire genre. Would we dismiss rock as a genre? Or metal?

          • ozzie

            We definitely shouldn’t dismiss the entire genre, which is vast and diverse, but individual elements or artists that are repeat offenders definitely can be dismissed. Most genres, including rap/hip hop, rock, metal, punk, hardcore etc have roots/origins that are radical, political, countercultural, anti-authority, anti police state, anti-establishment, anti-oppression but there’s been a huge deviation in their trajectories in that since the death of gross, chauvinistic LA hair-metal bands, it’s been really unpopular and condemned to make misogynistic songs or videos in rock whereas rap/hip-hop has gone completely the opposite direction. I’m a big rap fan too, and while I expect I’ll hear “ho” like sixty times in a Nicki Minaj song and am not phased by it, it really would have been shocking and jarring to hear it even once in any other genre. I think we rap fans have huge cognitive dissonance and compartmentalization issues going on.

          • Meghan Murphy

            “I think we rap fans have huge cognitive dissonance and compartmentalization issues going on.”

            Yes, I think you’re right…

          • I agree with your comments and also think mike makes good points, but I think we can all admit to living with a huge amount of cognitive dissonance in order to stay engaged with our woman-hating world. Don’t beat yourselves up over it, rap & hip hop music fans.

            -consumer of horror movies and Lana Del Rey’s music

          • huha

            I’m with you, Meghan. Hip hop was originally created by African Americans to talk about their struggles and what they had to go through in a racist capitalist society. Capitalists, though, knew that they had to sell to a predominantly white audience and that is what transformed it into a terrible consumer product. White people (men mostly) are not interested in original hip hop, so black artists are pushed to some extent to create disgusting sexist content.

            U.N.I.T.Y. by Queen Latifah is good. Most female artists are unknown, though. It’s hard to find good stuff.

          • Meghan Murphy

            Here are some of my favorite female artists: https://feministcurrent.com/6886/hey-ladies-rolling-stone-accidentally-forgets-about-women-in-hip-hop/

            Also, The Coup has been putting out amazing, radical hip hop for years. Killer Mike’s PL3DGE and R.A.P. Music are excellent, in terms of challenging capitalism and U.S. politics…

            Sage Francis and Brother Ali are good, too…

            Back when hip hop started, it wasn’t about capitalism or misogyny — it was just about block parties and battling… It then became political for obvious reasons — because it was part of a culture/community made up of black people living in poor areas, fucked over by the police/government. The misogyny and capitalism came later…

            I mean, hip hop is/was totally political and radical. It was co-opted by the mainstream, of course and I don’t think we let artists off the hook for sexism, objectification, or promoting violence against women, but again, I don’t think it makes sense at all to compare any genre — but especially this one — to porn or makeup, for example.

          • Leo

            Yeah, it’s disturbing how a genre originally associated with black people’s culture and a way to talk about their struggles, has become so associated with misogyny. It seems to serve white male supremacy in multiple ways (though I agree with not letting the artists themselves off the hook, either). I’ve had more than one white dude I was arguing about sexism with, attempt to point the finger at rap and hip-hop as a derailing tactic, and couldn’t help but think racism was part of it – the typical ‘look at those brown dudes, they’re more sexist than us!’ tactic.

          • Meghan Murphy

            Totally! White people who don’t like/get rap love to point the finger at hip hop and away from themselves.

          • mike

            I’d like to know some of the original hip hop artists you’re thinking of, if you have any good ones in mind that were focused on being political and did not have themes of misogyny.

            I would like to listen to them!

          • Paula

            Nope, hip hop is not any more misogynistic than a genre like rock. I don’t see why calling women “ho’s” or “bitches” is somehow worse than calling them “little girl” or perpetuating the idea that she belongs to you or reducing her to her body parts or [insert all of the other f*cked up messages rock musicians promote about women]. The misogyny in rock music is a little more covert, which I think is actually even more dangerous. I can barely even listen to the Beatles anymore . ..

          • Agreed, Paula.
            “I’d rather see you dead, little girl, than to see you with another man”, by those “loveable mop-tops” and other similar tunes played in our home as background when I was learning to walk and talk. It was my foundational intro to popular music. Cognitive dissonance indeed.

        • norp

          porn IS inherently misogynistic. DUH.

          • bella_cose

            I don’t think there is anything inherently misogynistic about people having sex and recording it, in theory at least. I think what makes it misogynistic in practice is that it’s being created under patriarchal and capitalist conditions.

  • This is the very reason that some 90% of my music library is female artists. The only way this changes is to not support those artists.

  • andeväsen

    Everyday Music Sexism is a project which is well-overdue.

    Any takers?

    • I’d be delighted to host a thread of this nature on my site! Guest posts welcome – do a sexist analysis of your no-longer-favs…whatever!

  • Ellesar

    You have to wonder if these artists really want paying fan women around at all. Wouldn’t it be easier to hire strippers who are a sure thing on the tits front and then they won’t have their night ruined by us prudish killjoys!

    • andeväsen

      More cost-effective to pressure thir fans into believing they owe the artist a view of their breasts along with the admission price.

  • lizor

    “It hurts to constantly be reminded that the music you love so much is made by people who are too lazy and selfish to think about the impact this kind of imagery and attitude might have on you and their other female fans.”

    I really relate to this particularly as it manifests in film. You know those sections of an otherwise [half] decently written, photographed and directed film where we have to sit though long lingering shots of someone’s soapy naked body in the shower or whatever. I process this as the director taking a break from his job to masturbate and forcing me to witness it. It infuriates me that, like you say, I TOO am a paying member of the audience, my dollar has one hundred pennies just like a man’s dollar. Can’t these guys just do their job and jack off in their own time? Really, it feels like the director/producers are sending a nudge and wink to their dudebros in the audience while jacking off in our [women in the audience’s] faces – just to reiterate to us all who rules and who is expendable.

    • Meghan Murphy

      Exactly!

    • andeväsen

      Reiterating the rules of the sex hierarchy seems a core function of the entertainment industry. Starting from Minne Mouse = Mickey Mouse + eyelashes and bow and upwards.

  • Grackle

    CD posted a link to a great Onion article and it reminded me of this one:

    http://www.theonion.com/articles/woman-takes-short-halfhour-break-from-being-femini,35026/

    It is so fucking hard to consume most forms of media without getting depressed and distracted by the sexism of it all.

  • Neo-Feudalist

    I think its really unfair to label rappers misogynists because obviously its a dig at them being black. I see criticism of sexism in rap music as veiled racism, and always find myself asking why not point out the sexism in white people music first? In my opinion, the sexism of Bon Jovi or Billy Talent is far worse than all the booty shaking rap videos I prefer to compartmentalize in my mind. Where others see objectification of women in Outkast’s music, posters and videos, I see a subversive critique of capitalism. I prefer to compartmentalize my rap consumption, because I know if I were to criticize the sexism I’d be sliding down that slippery slope into being a racist. So when I listen to rap I just put out of mind all these conundrums so I can tell myself I respect anything and everything black musicians produce.

    If you can’t see a complex critique of capitalism in the image below, you my friend are being unbalanced in your critique of rappers.
    http://the305.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/outkast.jpg

    • Neo-Feudalist

      In the image I actually see four women modelling themselves after the likes of one Angela Davis. End of story. You can’t sexually objectify Angela Davis, that would be something unimaginable that I would have never expected in a thousand years. The nudity is meant to portray the exposure that women are subjected to under capitalism. And the platinum sales Outkast have had under said capitalism is not counter-intuitive. I know rap is always a critique of capitalism and any evidence to the contrary is just misinformation.

      • bella_cose

        “Evidence to the contrary” is not “misinformation” because it doesn’t fit in with your preferred point of view. Evidence is evidence. Misinformation is misinformation. Those are two different things. And saying one can’t point out sexism in rap because that’s racism is ridiculous. No one gets a pass on racism or sexism in my book. Ignoring shit doesn’t make it cease to exist. Confronting the ugly in life is necessary, in order to change anything.

    • Meghan Murphy

      I think I did make the point that rap isn’t inherently misogynist and that white people make extremely sexist music too… Quite clearly…

      • Neo-Feudalist

        I’m glad we agree. I noticed on your about page you mention playing Biggie Smalls, which I would say for example isn’t a misogynistic rapper. Take for instance his hit “Big Booty Hoes.” Now this is a perfect example of a feminist song if ever I heard one. From beginning to end it empowers women, unlike many rock songs of the time, ie Metallica and Pearl Jam, I’m looking in your direction!

        Anyways, here’s a link to the feminist gem so you can all note how Meghan Murphy and I see beyond sexist red herrings linked to rap music to note the inner beauty of for example Biggie’s message that men and women can be equally empowered by his music. Rap makes about as many sexist foibles as rock music. In fact it is no stretch of the imagination to have you probably agree that rap contains significantly less sexist messages! But why are we splitting hairs here? Take a listen to real bad ass track about sexual equality.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRubjjxFyiU

        • Meghan Murphy

          I honestly can’t tell if your comments are serious or if you’re just trolling us…

          • Missfit

            This is trolling. But then, we are used to hear people say that porn and stripping are empowering for women, so it’s hard to tell nowadays….

          • Neo-Feudalist

            I think my comments are straightforward enough. I can’t help it that I’m sarcastic towards right-wing white male hegemony and choose to use language that challenges them.

          • meh

            Now now, enough being silly.

            Confusing sexist fuckery with feminist analysis is something that only naughty little turdlings do.

    • pbutterfly2000

      The nice thing about rap music is that it is an expression of black identity. The not-nice thing about it is that when it’s an expression of black MALE identity, then it becomes about male identity period. Reminds me of the explosion of white males getting to finally express themselves without censorship, as when D.H. Lawrence and Hemmingway were doing it. It was seen as a radical contribution to the arts in its expression of uncensored human experience. But it was an expression in particular of MALE experience, and the problem with the unfettered expression of males is that it often contains some very unpleasant and dehumanizing feelings towards the female of the species. Why wasn’t Virginia Woolf’s writing seen as radical in the same way? Black women endure untold suffering because of the rampant sexism of their males. To call rappers misogynists is NOT a dig at them being black. It’s a dig at them being misogynists.

    • derrington

      What, you think black men are above sexism? Tell that to the four who raped me as a 14 year old. Or is that my inherant racism coming out. Quite frankly I think sexism is sexism and to my mind I dont give a flying fuck whether its white or black men calling me a cunt, I object to both equally. Its called equality and am not interested in people playing the race or gender card in promoting violence towards me or my daughter.

    • C.K. Egbert

      I don’t see how criticizing sexism is a “slippery slope” into racism or why one would need to “respect everything and anything black musicians produce.” Criticizing someone is not the same as being racist. On a social level, sexism by black men is going to hurt an even more vulnerable subpopulation of womankind: black women (almost all sexual and domestic violence is perpetrated within the same racial group).

      Also, it seems to me that the over-sexualization and misogyny of hip-hop and rap could perpetuate the stereotype that black men are hyper-sexual and sexually predatory, whereas it seems to me that most musicians with more of a “nice guy/sweet romantic song” type persona are white.

    • Missfit

      Is that an attempt at sarcasm?

      • Neo-Feudalist

        I understand Biggie was only about the poverty politics, living in the ghetto. Take for instance his classic song “I’m Fucking You Tonight,” what could be a more straightforward than that this was another song assailing the woes of living a ghettoized life that could be freed if the white capitalist man was no longer the central oppressive force. Biggie was poor in his childhood, so what better way to give voice to that frustration than to lament about how now because he has finally made it financially, that his wealth brings him women:
        (lyrics from: http://lyrics.wikia.com/Biggie_Smalls:Im_Fuckin_You_Tonight)

        You must be used to me spendin
        And all that sweet winin and dinin
        Well I’m fuckin you tonight

        and…

        I got you pinned up, with yo fuckin limbs up
        All because you like the way my Benz was rimmed up

        and…

        At the Mariott, we be lucky if we find a spot

        and…

        Now I know you used to sweets at the Parker Meridian
        Trips to the Carribean, but tonight, no ends

        and…

        Girl you look fine, like a windface Rolex, you just shine
        I like that waistline

        These images paint a bleak capitalist setting where women in order to survive are now engaging in sex for the “spendin” and “winin and dinin” that they would otherwise have to pay for but for which they can’t on their own easily afford (in today’s neoliberal landscape, a women on average makes 70% of what a man makes for the same job!). So Biggie is sublimely describing the economically polarized world like a new take on Charles Dickens’ “A Tale of Two Cities,” where in many cases these women Biggie sleeps with are given a better material life than they are normally used to and that this is a very Charles Dickens thing to talk about. Keep in mind Biggie is this persona that Christopher Wallace portrayed to illustrate dark and deep messages about capitalism. Think of the character Tony Soprano and how that character tries to illustrate gritty realities, that is essentially the same thing Biggie smalls is doing. This is a form of art that mimics reality to make a deeper commentary on our world.

        But not only is Biggie pointing out how lopsided living in the impoverished ghetto can be, he is explaining how warped it is for him to see that his newfound richness now buys him anything he wants. In this way, Biggie moves onto discussing the pressing issue at hand, which is how he gets laid. The way he’s finger fucked a woman in the park and then will fuck that said woman’s sister illustrates how thankful these women are to be materially provided for so well, on top of having a good fucking of course. But there is nothing inherently wrong with having sex, it’s just the claustrophobic embrace that misogyny has over women, debasing women to only sexualized objects for the purpose strictly of fucking. This is not what Biggie wishes to convey. When he raps:

        Some say the x, make the sex
        Spec-tacular, make me lick you from yo neck
        To yo back, then ya, shiverin, tongue deliverin
        Chills up that spine, that ass is mine
        Skip the wine and the candlelight, no Cristal tonight
        If its alright with you, we fuckin (that’s alright)
        Deja vu, the blunts sparked, finger fuckin in the park
        Pissy off Bacardi Dark
        Remember when I used to play between yo legs
        You begged for me to stop because you know where it would head
        Straight to yo mother’s bed
        At the Mariott, we be lucky if we find a spot
        Next to yo sister, damn I really missed the
        way she used to rub my back, when I hit that
        Way she used to giggle when yo ass would wiggle
        Now I know you used to sweets at the Parker Meridian
        Trips to the Carribean, but tonight, no ends

        and…

        Girl you look fine, like a windface Rolex, you just shine
        I like that waistline
        Let me hit that from behind, which wall you wanna climb
        My styles genuine, girl I love you long time
        I got you pinned up, with yo fuckin limbs up
        All because you like the way my Benz was rimmed up
        Bitch keep yo shin up, please watch me do thee
        Nasty, like it when you make it move fast mommy
        I like it when you tro’ it pon me
        No love makin, strictly back breakin
        Ceas’ know, all his hoes, go to my door
        Then they go to his flo’, to fuck some more
        So no, caviar, sharp bar, uh uh
        Strictly sex that’s pretty and left over spaghetti
        I know you used to slow CD’s and Don P’s
        But tonight its eight tracks and six-packs while I hit that

        These are complicated commentaries. Anyways I’m getting really sick and tired of arguing with you people that rap music like Biggie’s is not sexist, let alone more sexist than much other forms of music out there. The fact that we are even having this debate just shows how far to the right we have really slipped over the years. If you can’t objectively say that rap music is less sexist than other forms of music then we really have lost all hope.

        • bella_cose

          I think it’s really just a case of the bullied turning around and bullying whoever is lower than they are in the power hierarchy. It seems to be a typically “masculine” response to to feeling disempowered.

          • derrington

            Its all about the hierarchy, shit travels downhill always, although different folk have different ideas of who is beneath them. All of it is psychopathic either way, and othering of different groups of people to raise the subject closer to the God they think they are.

        • pbutterfly2000

          These lyrics are about fucking, that’s all. It’s not a complicated commentary. Reminds of of Victorian pornographic novels. The parallel I made between D.H. Lawrence and contemporary rappers still holds. A hundred years ago, the white man came into his own by expressing his filthiest desires on paper and having that expression seen as legitimate art. Now it’s the black man’s turn.

          Perhaps you think this is great poetry; I do not. Lawrence at least honored love between men and women, and saw sexual love as an extension of spiritual love. Plus, Lawrence really was breaking cultural taboos, conquering territory that no one had ever conquered before in literature, and doing it with great literary skill and impeccable technique. Biggie is perpetuating a mainstream message in clunky rhyme, and far from having any spiritual or otherwise interesting ideas is just into getting some ass.

        • C.K. Egbert

          Slipping to the right is seeing feminist points where there is only misogyny.

        • pbutterfly2000

          Actually when you think about it these lyrics are really conventional. I’ve changed my mind after reading them about there being no place for women here. The place for women is to be fans who are in love with the singers. It’s Elvis Presley, The Beatles, Rudy Vallee (crooner from the 1920s), and every male rock star all over again. Except that we went from Rudy Vallee’s “Good Night Sweetheart” to Presley’s “Love me Tender” to The Beatles’ “I Want to Hold your Hand” to Biggie’s “I’m Fuckin’ you tonight.” So Marv, you’re right, it’s the selling of romance, except that today romance is sold to women as porn sex. The typical girl in the audience is supposed to swoon when he says that, and feel as if he is speaking to her only. The invitation to the female audience to flash their breasts is to perpetuate a girl’s self-fantasy of being his object of desire, as much or more as it is to give the guys a show. It’s just part of a long record-selling tradition involving male singers, and it’s sentimental and erotic and packaged as ghetto, but basically that’s all it is.

    • NitroGirl

      You know what’s funny about this comment is that the author already said she is not condemning HipHop/Rap as a whole and acknowledges that there’s misogyny in every genre, but you had to make your generic comment and to add on to that,justify why you like seeing an image that looks like a Black pimp from the 70s and a bunch of Black naked females. How about stop selling sex if you hate capitalism so much? No,that would ruin the liberal White Male’s racist voyerism towards Black women’s sexuality and their nudity, so let’s try to pretend like it’s not just plain ol’ exploitation by calling the women a well-known political figure. Angela Davis my Black ass. I swear, AA Women have been saying these things for a long time (I always used to hear about stuff like this from my dear mama), are African American women racist against themselves when they protest such things? No bleeding heart individualistic,pro-tit,pro-porn,pro-sex-selling liberal male has yet to contest us,but would rather browbeat women who are not Black with generic,dismissive replies defending their favorite genres or bands instead of asking us exactly how we feel about anything.

  • pbutterfly2000

    Also: black people are not immune to the effects of our culture as a whole. Duke Ellington, who was a notorious womanizer, had lyrics that ached for women but in a romantic way. HIs lyrics were never dehumanizing but longing. Feelings of longing have not disappeared in men; they are just not expressed anymore. I’ll bet many rappers have romantic feelings, but it’s so unhip to express them that they would never dare.

    I don’t see how something can be seen as such a radical critique of culture when it relies so heavily on cultural stereotypes to sell records. It’s a male competitive culture which fears softness, and there’s no place in such a culture for women. It’s a culture that’s designed to exclude women as part of its legacy of hardness and toughness. It’s a culture in which dehumanizing women is the ultimate act of coolness. It’s a culture in which the word “pussy” is the biggest insult. It’s immature, rotten, and stupid, and you can’t be a big commercial success without playing into it. Radical? NOT.

  • Well, this is the kind of stuff I grew up with. Satisfaction as a young teen, and this one in young adulthood: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2k9hw_rolling-stones-under-my-thumb_music

    We were in a swim as this was a manifesto of patriarchy, but a very cool, hard-driving song with more than a bit of sardonic wit. I remain a “Siamese Cat of a Girl”, though I’m certainly no young lass…

    Later came along “Brown Sugar”, but also “Street Fighting Man” (odd, still a man, when there were lots of women involved in the 1968 and following street fights).

    There are very progressive hip hop performers though. Remember, they aren’t all in the States – lots of young racialised people in France, for example, and here, some notable Indigenous hip hop artists. I agree that I like it a lot better than metal, but it is scarred by the sexism of the oppressed. “Woman is the slave of the slave” (Engels before John Lennon, and I’m sure a lot of proletarian women overlooked by history have said it better.

  • q

    This bell hooks video on rap music is what I think of whenever misogyny in hip-hop is brought up:

    bell hooks Pt 8 cultural criticism (rap music) – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xtoanes_L_g

    Is men’s sex-positivity not what allows this to continue? I’m male and I shy away from the phrase “sex-positive feminism” because is sex positivity as a zeitgeist is really led by individual males and male supremacy in general. Men (like Charlie Glickman and Charles Clymer) set the trap of anti-objectification-as-conservatism. It’s these men that are crucial to the perpetuation of this violence.

  • pbutterfly2000

    I totally agree. I hate Charlie Glickman. It’s confusing and awful for women when in order to identify as “sex positive” they have to accept violence to women and the worst and most degrading porn as somehow part of being liberal.

    • bella_cose

      Charlue Glickman is one of the worst. He routinely glosses over the fact that the mojority of people in prostitution, and shown being degraded in porn, are women. He tries to blame squeamishness regarding sex acts for any criticism of porn or prostitution. And the sex pozzies eat that shit up. I’m sure he’s a big supporter of misogyny in the music industry.

      • Meghan Murphy

        Charlie Glickman routinely paints/accuses feminists of being prudish, anti-sex, slut-shamers when they are critical of porn or BDSM. He’s no ally to women or the feminist movement, despite the fact that he likes to position himself as such.

        • pbutterfly2000

          Glickman’s arguments also make no sense. He said, in response to Gail Dines’ critique of an extreme porn site, that she has no right to try to censor “what people do consensually in the privacy of their own bedrooms.” I wonder how he arrives at sex in the privacy of one’s own bedroom from commercially produced sex that’s being choreographed, lit, filmed in front of a crew, and distributed to thousands of people, and which often involves women who are tricked into performing acts which disgust and terrify them, often while they are under the influence of drugs (which implies lack of consent) under the duress of earning money in an socially unequal society. Tricky talk from that guy, although he’s not too clever.

  • marv

    Romantic music too is as patriarchal as any other kind no matter what form it takes. It exhibits cultural obsessions with gender and heterosexuality developed upon male supremacist underpinnings. Love songs are a mirage of happiness revealing and concealing the sexual politics of desire. They are yet another ideological mechanism constraining women’s freedom and equality – killing them softly. Oppressed groups frequently strive for that which is intoxicating but doesn’t redress disparity. “No Satisfaction”.

    In a nonpatriarchal society romance would be a harmless pleasure.

  • pbutterfly2000

    Yes, anything and everything in a patriarchal society can be and is used as a tool of oppression against women. You’re right that romance is and has been used this way, especially from around the 1850s to the 1970s or so, when porn took over. Romance was indeed used as a drug to pacify women. But in our current porn culture, I look at the marketing of romance in a partly nostalgic way. And I still think it’s much worse to lure women into being porn stars than into being someone’s wife (but maybe the difference is negligible if you really think about it)!

    • marv

      Porn is one of the most flagrant violations of women’s human rights in the world. It is more than enough to make a person weep with rage uncontrollably. I could hear the agony in your various comments above. It provides some relief to talk about it with people who care. What would do without the Feminist Current?

      One of the most insidious things about love and marriage which you obviously know is that they privatize/isolates women, masking their sex class status by publicly declaring their primary identification as spouse/wife. Pair bonding allows men to bond across women’s bodies keeping women divided against themselves. Of course porn plays a similar role, though turning women into public property for men. Further, interracial marriages have the effect of hiding race class divisions by individualizing them. Racialized porn as well allows white males to doubly oppress women of colour. Taken together porn, other sex work and couple and white supremacy are essential ingredients for keeping patriarchy and racial inequality robust and uninhibited.

      • This brings to mind the exchange further upthread re: the women who were “voluntarily” stripping at the gig – were they victims or did they share responsibility for the female-hostile atmosphere?

        I think it’s pretty obvious that we are all both simultaneously, always. It’s the choice we are able to make within that double bind: to comply or to resist (in this case by keeping your shirt on) that either makes it harder or easier for other women to resist; that ultimately makes a better or a worse world for us all.

        I’m not condemning women who comply – we all do to some degree as has been pointed out by Meghan and others here many times over – but actions have real repercussions and sometimes actions can be very disappointing.

        • bella_cose

          I totally agree, when I think of it in a purely rational way, that it doesn’t make sense to condemn women that participate in performing female sexuality for males. Emotionally though, it makes me so angry, I swear I can feel my blood begin to boil. Their actions affect how I’m treated by society, and it pisses me off. I wish I didn’t feel this way though.

  • pbutterfly2000
    • Missfit

      Men buying women like you do an item from a catalog, and women being paid to play ‘smiley cute compliant womanhood’.

      These ‘mutual beneficial arrangements’ are never analyzed in terms of gender power dynamics and they try to present it as simply the normal, standard paradigm underlying men-women relationships.

      From the article: ‘ (…) there is no illusion of romance in these not-so-traditional courtships. “It’s cutting off the fluff” ’.

      I guess by ‘fluff’ she means authenticity and equality. Also, romance (love?) is an illusion.

  • pbutterfly2000

    “No illusion of romance” and “cutting the fluff” are actually euphemisms for straight-out prostitution arrangements.

    Here is a puke-inducing piece of advice from the Seeking Arrangement blog, from a blog post titled, “Does the Sugar Lifestyle Have an Expiration Date?” https://www.seekingarrangement.com/blog/does-the-sugar-lifestyle-have-an-expiration-date/

    Spicey says:
    April 24, 2013 at 5:53 am
    The next question I’m receiving from sugar babies by email is “how much should I ask for.” (See the Pro SB Blog for my answer to photos). I’m not going to go into the asking/negotiation process here as I’m on vacay. But my general thoughts;

    1. Depends on what you’re looking for. If you’re really looking to fall in luuuurv and get married and make babies you should be focused on the quality of the man, and the connection. I have no advice for lurv-seekers, that’s more a Jersey question (for me sugar is a sexy short term toy, I’m not in the relationship market).

    Note: these are generalizations. For every rule there’s an exception. If you think that you fit into one of these categories but have some exceptional quality, by all means adjust your expectations according to what you know. Only you can decide for you what works. These are just my observations after carefully reviewing a LOT of profiles from SDs and SBs – your results may vary.

    2. Over $7K – You are an independently verified “10″ (this doesn’t mean your past four boyfriends said you’re hot. You were prom queen three years running, Ms. Idaho and a varsity cheerleader in a 2000+ student high school; a regularly paid model working in NYC or Milan; Miss Hawaiian Tropic; a Dallas Cowboy Cheerleader; or some other third party seal of hotness approval). AND you love to f*ck and you’re really good at it, and aren’t afraid to make this at least implied in your profile. However, if you’re hot but not smart, beware – you will be a great target for fakes and time wasters.

    3. $5K-$10K – you are a rare treat in some way. Not an “I’m cute and sweet and kind of bendy” – really rare. As in, a gorgeous grad student with impeccable breeding completely unintimidated by attending a $1,500 a plate black tie event, a professional Contortionist, a domme (lot of sugar to be had for dommes on this site), a Triple E with a 22 inch waste and a degree in microbiology, a 36″ tall flame sword swallower who grew up in Paris.

    4. $3K – $5K – you are SUPER hot with a perfect rack (with the bra off perfect, not well supported by Vicki’s Secret perfect) or a perfect ass, or perfect stomach, or Helen of Troy’s Face. You are college educated, and earn a monthly income similar to the sugar amount you’re hoping for. Expect it to take six months to find your sugar match.

    5. Holding out for $3K – $5K – you don’t feel confident you fit into the above, but you’re only interested in the sugar game if it is for this amount. You will need very good photos, a very sweet disposition, patience, and careful vetting. You will get less traffic by way of messages and views, so target your profile to the man who you think will like your type most. Expect six months to a year and update your profile photos every month in order to generate new traffic to your profile.

    6. $1K – $3K – this is the most reasonable range in the sugar bowl. At this point you should be very cute to pretty, immediately responsive when you get a message on SA, fun in bed, and easy to be with. This is the range with the most competition, so a solid profile and one “Net” photo is needed. (As in a photo so hot men will click on your profile just to figure out “Who is That? Me likey” Make your profile specific – it’ll take 3-6 months to find someone.

    7. Under $1K – you have a vagina, you’re willing to do P4P. You’ll get tons of attention from big time creepers! Best to put the allowance at negotiable, unless you are really just desperate for money, or a Pro.

    8. You want gifts and trips and sexy dinners to expensive places but not an allowance. Put this in your profile. A girl who just wants to be treated well but doesn’t care about allowance can do really well. Just make sure you actually receive those gifts before you put out. Many a man who promises Prada will poof after sex, and you’ll be left NOT holding the bag.

    • Missfit

      This is pathetic.

      We live in a society where men buy women. This is the gendered power dynamic at play. Men buy women, not the other way around. It is no surprise that in this society, you have women who have come to evaluate themselves as products and present themselves as such. This is not about a particular skill or talent; the product is ‘woman’ (and everybody knows appearance is the most important quality of this product).

      In the article, they also talked about ‘sugaring’ allowing college women to network, getting jobs or internships. When you think of the feminists who fought against the idea that women should have to trade sex for work or promotions… Now it seems that ‘fucking up to the top’ is being viewed as a valid option and the whole idea of prostitution being normalized (sometimes even promoted) legitimizing the notion that sex is a woman’s currency.

  • norp

    “One cannot meaningfully engage with a culture when it is [reduced to] a commodity [like mainstream hip hop] shaped by the imperialist, white supremacist, patriarchal gaze under capitalistic structures. Cultural engagement requires that we go much further than “consuming” a culture, and build communities founded in mutual understanding and respect. This requires an engagement with the actual people of a place and culture and not just “engaging” with them in commodified form.”

    http://bit.ly/1v4xZbw

  • The Real Cie

    In spite of Flavor Flav’s disappointing personal behavior, Public Enemy has never let me down as far as being a group I know I can go see and not have to be bombarded with objectification of women. When I go to one of their shows, I know I’m going to get music, not a face full of boobs.
    Sadly, I don’t think most predominantly male groups of whatever genre consider the female members of their audience when creating their stage shows.

    • Meghan Murphy

      I saw Public Enemy a few years ago and they were SO AWESOME. Also, for what it’s worth, Killer Mike and El-P always are respectful of women at their shows and always remind dudes in the audience not to be aggressive dicks. I appreciate that.

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  • I’m with u. i got a par of tits and while the general idea of associate every thing thats dope with boob makes sense, how necessary is it? what about non mammary-gland oriented talent? bars? cuts? tags? flairs? air chairs? no? I’m just saying.

    I also run a female show case/radio broadcast called the Girl_illa movement. theres boobs involved but only because they are kind of attached. we are more about showing off talent and skill rather than…. ya know assets. Bang on your chest in our jungle. http://thealishab.com/2015/03/22/the-girl_illa-movement-banging-on-our-chest-in-the-hip-hop-jungle/