Lesbianism is under attack, though not by the usual suspects

Pressuring lesbians into dating people with penises is all too similar to the practice of corrective rape, wherein it is believed lesbian sexuality can be “cured.”

From the denial of lesbianism as a legitimate sexuality, to the notion that lesbians are simply women who “can’t get a boyfriend,” to the practice of corrective rape, lesbians have been erased and abused throughout history. The repression of lesbianism continues today, as 44 countries have criminalized lesbianism, and sham marriages within which rape and the threat of death as an alternative are on the rise.

In China, lesbians face potential death at the hands of their parents and often opt to marry gay men for self-preservation, and in India, lesbians are forced into straight marriages. A report  in the Telegraph explains:

“Most [lesbians] have no option but to be forced into heterosexual marriages, meaning they may have little or no control over their sexual and reproductive choices…and resulting in a lifetime of undocumented and state-sanctioned rape.”

Today, there is yet another way lesbianism has come under attack, as the queer movement send lesbians the message that refusing to consider sex with somebody with a penis is bigoted.

Homosexuality has been criminalized and homosexuals have been discriminated against around the world for centuries. Male homosexualty was legalized in the UK in 1967, but prior to that, gay men were subjected to aggressive punishment. Between 1806 and 1816, 404 men were put to death for “buggery” and as late as the 1950s, up to a thousand men a year were imprisoned for homosexual offences.

Despite the harsh treatment of gay men in various eras and countries, their accomplishments and existence have not been erased as those of lesbians have. In The Disappearing L: Erasure Of Lesbian Spaces And Culture, Bonnie J Morris writes:

“The traditional academic canon, with its focus on male achievement and leadership, embeds many contributions by gay men through the ages, whereas lesbians have had barely a generation and a half of scholarly scrutiny (corresponding to how recently women were allowed to attend college at all).”

Female homosexual relationships were never made illegal in the UK, but lesbians were, however, forced into heterosexual marriages and subjected to corrective rape.

Women who refused to marry were labeled “spinsters” and “frigid,” or were institutionalized, “treated” with drugs (such as apomorphine which is designed to cure addictions and erectile dysfunction), and subjected to electroshock therapy to cure them of their homosexuality.

Katie L. Frick describes the process:

“Those who were admitted to the asylum for being a spinster or a lesbian were submitted to forced marriages by family members or even encouraged sexual encounters where patients were sexually abused or raped under the care of their doctors. It was assumed these women could be cured by repeated sexual interaction with men.”

In her novel Riding Fury Home: A Memoir, Chana Wilson describes caring for her mother, who was left suicidally depressed after have been institutionalized and put through such “treatment:”

“After each electroshock treatment, when she had recovered enough to move her stiff and sore body down the hall to the pay phone, when she wasn’t so disoriented that she couldn’t remember the names of friends, my mother would call anyone she could think of — my father, her parents, her friends — and beg, ‘Please, my God, they’re killing me — you have to get me out of here!'”

Today, in the US, there are 42 states where conversion therapy is still legal for minors, and its use continues to be debated by the GOP. The discrimination against and abuse of homosexuals around the world continues, though it is less tolerated than in the past.

As society became more accepting of lesbian relationships, men found a new way to deny lesbian boundaries and autonomy: by fetishizing them. PornHub, for example, announced that “lesbian” was the number one search term for the second year in a row in 2016. While invading lesbian relationships is ever a popular theme in porn, it is also present in mainstream movies and fiction.

Comedies have tried to normalize male involvement in lesbianism and pushed the notion that lesbians aren’t really lesbians — they just need to meet the right man. Numerous films show male characters becoming romantically involved with characters considered to be lesbians.

In The Kids Are Alright, lesbian couple Jules and Nic meet Paul, their children’s sperm donor. After he becomes involved in their lives, Jules is seduced by him and the two begin a sexual affair. Lesbianism is portrayed as a temporary phase in Kissing Jessica Stein. The leading character, Jessica nervously explores her curiosity and enters into a long term relationship with Helen, only to return to her ex-boyfriend when that relationship ends. Kevin Smith’s Chasing Amy shows Ben Affleck’s character, Holden, falling in love with lesbian character Alyssa (played by Joey Lauren Adams). In his despair at loving a woman who would never love him back, Holden is consoled by a male friend who says, “All every woman really wants, be it mother, senator, nun, is some serious deep-dickin’.” While intended as a joke, Alyssa does eventually engage in a sexual relationship with Holden, and reveals she has been in relationships with men before, vindicating the fantasy that all women really do just want some “deep dicking,” regardless of their sexuality.

In the sitcom, How I Met Your Mother, Neil Patrick Harris’ womanizing character Barney Stinson makes light of lesbian boundaries by putting on glasses and a headband to disguise himself as woman, proclaiming, “Tonight, I pick up a lesbian.” This implies not only that lesbians cannot tell men from women, but that if Barney got a lesbian into bed, she would actually enjoy that sexual encounter, despite it having been gained through deception and being the antithesis of her sexuality.

Men seeking sex with lesbians has been a staple of our entertainment, used for laughs,by characters we consider “lovable.” The belief that some “deep-dicking’’ is something all women will enjoy once they try it encourages men to ignore lesbian boundaries and presents lesbian sex as a weak alternative to the “real thing” (which must, naturally, involve penises and penetration). This theme tells us that even if men trick lesbians into sex, lesbians will like it, no matter how much they claim to prefer women.

Far from funny, these narratives normalize corrective rape — the idea that if lesbians would only have sex with men, they will become straight.

The term “corrective rape” was coined in South Africa in the early 2000s, when aid workers noticed a growing trend of lesbians being sexually assaulted by men who aimed to “cure” women of homosexuality.

In 2014, a lesbian named Mvuleni Fana was gang raped by four men, who told her: “After everything we’re going to do to you, you’re going to be a real woman, and you’re never going to act like this again.” She was then beaten unconscious and left for dead. It is estimated that, in South Africa, 10 lesbians are subjected to assaults like this every week, and they are not alone — this happens globally.

In 2015, filmmaker Deepthi Tadanki investigated the trend of fathers in India raping their homosexual children to “cure” them. In an interview with Gaysi, Tadanki said:

“When I read about corrective rape, what shook me is the inhumane activities people are doing to the girls in the name of power and discrimination (male ego), also culture and tradition. Apart from strangers or acquaintances their own families are a party in supporting, planning and executing it. The guilty in most cases are not punished and our society is okay with it.”

While the left may believe lesbophobia and corrective rape is a thing of the past here in the West, they’d best start paying attention. Today, we are seeing a new, socially accepted form of sexual coercion — a liberal-friendly kind of bullying that condemns lesbians for not embracing sex with people who have penises on the grounds of discrimination.

In April 2017, Riley J Dennis, a writer, YouTuber, and trans activist, who identifies as “a non-binary transwoman” and is in a relationship with a woman (which you’d be forgiven for assuming is simply a heterosexual relationship), posted a video asking the question, “Are genital preferences transphobic?” Dennis’ conclusion was that if you are a lesbian who won’t consider having sex with a person with a penis, you are “cissexist.”

In the video, Dennis explains, “If you’re a woman who only likes women, go ahead, identify as a lesbian, but some women have penises.”

The idea that all lesbians have simply decided to choose to “identify” as lesbians, regardless of sexual preference, is behind the practice of corrective rape and men’s attempts to “turn” lesbians heterosexual via their penises. Claiming a penis can be “female” is nothing more than gaslighting, and has become a politically correct way to bully lesbians into sleeping with men.

On July 1, transgender writer Zinnia Jones, who claims to be a lesbian, is married to a woman, and has 13k followers on Twitter, tweeted, “Penises can be incredibly female.”

The idea that lesbians should be attracted to transwomen just as they are biological women assumes that lesbians do not specifically and deliberately reject male bodies. Lesbians are not lesbians to be politically correct, or to validate the identities of transwomen. If a lesbian is not interested in a penis it is not a reduction or a phobia, it is a sexuality. As Claire Heuchan explains, lesbianism is about “Women desiring other women, to the exclusion of men; women directing our time and energy towards other women, as the exclusion of men; women building our lives around other women, to the exclusion of men.”

Even women’s magazines like Cosmopolitan are getting on board, encouraging lesbians to put aside their aversion to sex with males, and date transwomen. In an article titled,14 things you should know before dating a trans girl,” Evie Andrew writes:

Try not to be overly fixated on genitals. What did I say before about it being the future? Some girls have dicks, some girls don’t, and some are in-between… deal with it. In fact, when was the last time you approached a girl on the dance floor because of the shape of their vagina? Spoiler, you haven’t.”

The message is clear: Your sexual orientation is a hang-up you need to overcome.

But this bullying goes further, as lesbians who are not willing to consider transgender partners are labelled “TERFs,” a term that means “Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminists” and is too-often attached to violent threats.

For some trans women who are attracted to women and identify themselves as lesbians, the word TERF has become synonymous with “lesbians.” In a Buzzfeed article titled, “Can Lesbian Identity Survive The Gender Revolution?” Shannon Keating argues that lesbians who exclude transwomen are TERFS:

“TERFs refuse to see trans women as women at all, think including trans women in women’s spaces is akin to rape culture, and advocate for separating lesbians from the G, B, and T’s.”

On June 25th, Mya Byrne, a musician, writer, and trans activist, tweeted a selfie (since deleted) from San Francisco Pride, wearing a faux blood-stained T-shirt that read, “I PUNCH TERFS.” Because Byrne was wearing the shirt to Pride (i.e. an event that would presumably include more lesbians than straight women), the message could easily be read as a threat against lesbians who disagreed with the notion that penises can be female.

For older lesbians — women who have lived comfortably with their sexuality since the 70s — these new pressures might be easier to ignore. But young lesbians just learning about their sexuality are coming out in a world where they are told that penises can be female and that to reject that notion (and the people attached to said penises) is cruel and bigoted. Instead of teaching young lesbians to embrace their sexuality, we are teaching them that they are fundamentally wrong for feeling the way they do.

Refusing to respect that some women do not want to have sex with somebody with a penis is the ultimate display of patriarchy.

J.J. Barnes writes about politics with a focus on women’s issues, feminism, and parenting, and is the author of “The Lilly Prospero Series for Siren Stories.” Follow her on Twitter @judieannrose.

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  • lk

    “The idea that lesbians should be attracted to transwomen just as they are biological women assumes that lesbians do not specifically and deliberately reject male bodies.”

    Well, according to trans ideology…there really is no such thing as the male body or the female body. Self-identification is the ultimate truth.

    The author linked to a Cosmo article, after reading that I was browsing Cosmo and came up on this gem:

    In the article, an MTF shows all the “transphobic” responses he gets on dating sites. A guy politely says that he is a heterosexual male and is not interested. MTF response: Being heterosexual doesn’t mean anything.

    If heterosexuality doesn’t mean anything, then homosexuality doesn’t mean anything.

    If words like woman, lesbian, gay, bisexual have no meaning then it becomes impossible to talk about discrimination and power inequalities or to even acknowledge their existence.I.e., if lesbian doesn’t mean anything, how can we critique and put an end to harm that is specifically inflicted on lesbian bodies (like corrective rape, forced/unwanted hetero marriages).

    “Refusing to respect that some women do not want to have sex with somebody with a penis is the ultimate display of patriarchy.”

    Any ideology that encourages women to have unwanted sex is not a pro-woman ideology. There is nothing progressive about guilting women into having romantic or sexual relationships they don’t want.

    I physically cringe when I see phrases like the one you shared: “Penises can be incredibly female.”
    That statement makes absolutely no sense.

    Woman are allowed to refuse sex with someone for any damn reason.

  • FierceMild

    This is all so infuriating! Without even going into how the trans movement is promoting bodily harm to young (and older) lesbians that amounts to sexualized torture – breast binding etc – I already want to rage barf.

  • I’m glad you brought out the point about young lesbians being especially vulnerable. A lot of people think, why doesn’t the lesbian just say no to the guilt tripping manipulation, and an older woman would do just that, if she was the target. But they want young lesbians, as in barely legal. When this issue exploded on Tumblr in 2012, it was mostly older lesbians who were speaking out about it, and the transwomen response was “oooh! Who would want someone as old and unattractive as YOU. Shut up, you’re in no danger.” Apparently nondiscrimination in sexual relations for them doesn’t extend to mature women. It gets worse, though, because these transwomen saying mature lesbians are too old and ugly were mostly 30s and 40s, the same age as lesbians they had dismissed as too old for them. This is OLDER MEN targeting YOUNGER WOMEN, an age-old problem. (Not trying to Cotton Ceiling anyone over the age thing here, just pointing out the inconsistency. I think it’s actually a good idea to date people your own age.)

  • skepticalia

    “In China, lesbians face potential death at the hands of their parents and often opt to marry gay men for self-preservation”. The quoted article has nothing to do with China or Chinese people. It is about British Asians, which in the UK means primarily Pakistanis. The article is about how lesbian and gay British Pakistanis from Muslim backgrounds have to hide their orientation to avoid extreme consequences, including being killed by their families and communities.

  • anne cameron

    Well, okay, just to make it clear to all and sundry… I guess I am a TERF…
    but I warn you, trying to punch me would not be beneficial to your health and welfare…

  • Hekate Jayne

    Once again, I can’t understand how women everywhere don’t see this.

    This isn’t even all that crafty for the males, considering all of the ways that they have manipulated us in the past. But to say that a penis is female? And that if lesbians won’t have sex with them, then the lesbian is a bigot? Why does any woman anywhere agree with this? What is wrong with them?

    Males slapping on a dress and proceeding to demand sex from lesbians is not surprising. Not really, because they are just entitled idiots. But for women to go along with it? Amazingly disturbing.

  • linnet

    This way of thinking is now central to feminism… the thought that “No means No” is now negotiable makes me feel sick to my stomach. How many decades did we fight to get some shred of bodily autonomy only for these misguided kids to put a trans qualifier on it. No means no UNLESS it’s a trans woman that wants in your pants and you better acquiesce or else you’re a FILTHY EVIL TRANSPHOBE THAT WANTS THEM ALL DEAD.

    I never thought I would see the day that homosexuality would be considered bigotry (besides being termed a SLUR in favor of queer) and all those that stand their ground have that same old TERF stamped on them, words shoved in their mouths, no platformed, doxxed, and threatened with rape and murder. I just cannot see myself as a feminist anymore if these are the bedrock beliefs that we’re supposed to be fighting for, which is against our own good

  • FierceMild

    I do take issue with one thing in this article; it most certainly is the usual suspects attacking and attempting to pathologies lesbians. It’s men. It’s always been men. Same old thing.

  • Sophie Richardson

    Oh, FFS, no one is “forcing” anyone to do anything non-consensual.

    Trans women are reclaiming what you are invalidating and calling out what might be some prejudice.

    That’s it. Nothing more.

    We’re not here to force or take anything in this world. We’re simply trying to survive.

    Trans people have existed, where we weren’t erased from the history books, for 2400 years and certainly since the dawn of time. The Hijra caste in India is living proof of it.


    I’m sorry you’re new to this and that this bothers you, but we’re persecuted by the same men, for the same reasons you are, just even worse, since exclusionists like yourselves REMOVED OUR HUMAN RIGHTS in 1980 at the UN, and then removed us from being supported for all healthcare, public and private.

    It’s not too easy to survive when you’re excluded from all human rights protections, no one will hire you anywhere, you’ll be fired for coming out, discriminated against in housing, education and virtually everything and you know what?

    It’s still done, everywhere.

    This is what we’re thinking about.

    That’s not the “agenda”.

    Those are tweets and YouTube videos designed to provoke discussion.

    This transgender boogeyman doesn’t exist. We’re trying not to get raped (which happens more to us). We’re trying to not get murdered on our way home. We’re trying to find a way for a thousand employers to not say “we’ll call you” because they can discriminate against us and don’t want “the hassle”. I can go on to this forever.

    How about talking WITH a trans woman and not just among each other?

    You might find out something.

    • Zuzanna Smith

      Lol, “how about letting a man tell you what you need to know instead”? Yeah, we know, sir, we’ve heard that one all our lives.

    • machine broke

      how does this article have to do anything with coercion that is happening to lesbians in LGBTQ circles? how does excluding trans women from our bodies means excluding them from human rights? lesbian’s bodies are not public property.

    • Hekate Jayne

      You said:
      ” but we’re persecuted by the same men, for the same reasons you are, just even worse, ….”

      Really? You lack access to abortion? You fear pregnancy from rape?

      Really? Just wow.

      So, employers don’t hire you because you might get pregnant? That happens to us.

      How many Trans have had their clitoris cut out by males? Or been taken as a child bride for reproduction?

      Could Trans not vote until women were allowed to? Or were Trans denied an education? Or were Trans said to be “hysterical” because their wombs were running around in their bodies?

      No? How many Trans are in prison for having a miscarriage or a still birth?

      How many Trans have their reproduction controlled by the state?

      How many Trans learned that their body was filthy, and had to learn to hide having their period? How many Trans dollars have gone to the tampon tax?

      How many Trans are denied a driver’s license? Or were denied a bank account? Or were not allowed to own property?

      How many Trans have died in childbirth?

      And the answer to all of these questions is ZERO. But I get called a transphobe for talking about it.

      You are a dude. You don’t magically become a woman because you say so. You will NEVER have the same concerns that we do. Most of you are too arrogant to understand that.

      You come in here and tell us what we are doing wrong, how we can fix YOUR problem. It’s not surprising. Because that’s how males act.

      If males are violent to you, then how about you getting to fixing it? With the dudes that are violent to you? What makes you think that women are responsible for fixing male violence? We can’t get them to stop forcing us to have babies, raping and killing us. But you Trans always act like we are supposed to fix your shit.

      Fix your own shit. Create your own solutions. That’s what women do.

      But it never fails that males don’t want to do their own work, they feel entitled to ours. Hell, you guys are so entitled to our very bodies and identities as women, that you say that we physically don’t exist and you can just become us, lol. You have decided that being a woman is a feeling, or wearing a dress.

      Tell yourself whatever you want. But save the manbaby tantrum because we don’t have to agree with your delusion. Even though you males get irate when we refuse to baby you.

      • lk

        “If males are violent to you, then how about you getting to fixing it?”

        Why do trans activists act as though women are at fault for violence against people who are trans-identified?

        Even without doing any research, I would bet my last dollar that the vast majority of murder and sexual assaults of trans people have been committed by men.

        Lesbians refusing to have sex with MTF has nothing to do with violence against trans.

        • Hekate Jayne

          Well, they threaten, harrass, and bully us because that’s what males do.

          I can’t tell if they are just that stupid, to think that we cause male violence, or if they just like being shitty to us and use it as an excuse.

          I mean, males are the half of the human race that run everything, claim that they are superior while destroying everything, and then claim that they are victims and nothing is ever their fault.

          They are simultaneously the bestest, smartest at running things ever while also being responsible for nothing, and we are too stupid as ladies to control anything, so we can’t be trusted with anything (even control of our own bodies), but we somehow are to blame for everything.

          • Cassandra

            “They are simultaneously the bestest, smartest at running things ever while also being responsible for nothing, and we are too stupid as ladies to control anything, so we can’t be trusted with anything (even control of our own bodies), but we somehow are to blame for everything.”

            This is awesome.

        • Perfectly good bet: that’s why everyone talks about access to the women’s room, and no one fusses about transmen and the men’s room; transfolk want to hide from men, and have no respect or fear of women.

    • FierceMild

      Wait, transwomen are reclaiming the vaginas of lesbians? Yup, total idiocy.

    • Alienigena

      So authoritative. You speak (like a god) and the people listen and comply. You don’t need statistics to back up your claims, you are a master (or is it mistress) of the universe. No one dare question your claims because the simple act of saying them makes them true. Government statistics are faked. You alone have access to the truth. All hale the great Sophie.

    • lk

      “We’re simply trying to survive.”

      Suggesting lesbians include biological men in their sexual or romantic lives has absolutely nothing to do with survival. Accusing women of being transphobic or bigoted because they do not want to date biological men is not about survival.

      It is about violating women’s boundaries.

      “Trans women are reclaiming what you are invalidating and calling out what might be some prejudice.”

      What are we invalidating? What are transwomen trying to reclaim?

      It is not “prejudice” for a lesbian to refuse sex with biological males. Women are allowed to refuse sex with anyone for any reason…someone not wanting to have sex with me is not a violation of my human rights.

    • JustSayingIre

      Oh, FFS, no one is “forcing” anyone to do anything non-consensual.

      Yes, just like the majority of lesbians weren’t forced to live a straight life for years to avoid being disowned or thrown out of their parents’ houses – but they’re still being pressurized and manipulated. They’ve just found a different way of doing it.

    • calabasa

      Transwomen are certainly not more oppressed than women. Women are oppressed on the basis of our reproductive capacity. Transwomen who are not passing are discriminated against due to homophobia (which stems from the misogyny of patriarchy–the fear and disgust of a man wanting to take on “feminine” qualities), and transwomen who are passing experience the same sexual harassment we do and discrimination from being perceived as women that we do. Coming out to partners is a personal issue, which is why transwomen might want to tell male (or female) partners upfront, and look specifically for partners open-minded about dating trans people. It’s certainly not easy to date as a heterosexual radical feminist, either.

      Trans people have their own issues, and can have their own civil rights movement, as long as their rights do not supersede or undermine ours as women (and in the sincere interests of gay men and lesbians everywhere, and of people with unaddressed trauma and/or mental health issues apart from dysphoria, medical transition should not be undertaken lightly). In the case of transwomen, males transitioning into an oppressed group should be aware of that group’s unique struggles and considerate of the hardships women face for being women. They should not claim to be “more oppressed” than the half of the population that has been oppressed since the dawn of “civilization.” and come in making demands upon women. As difficult as it may be to feel oneself to be in the wrong body (and many other things are difficult for people who still face a lot of discrimination without help or a civil rights movement–the mentally ill, for example, who still face incredible stigma and try to avoid “coming out” to anyone as much as possible), men transitioning into an oppressed group need to take a step back and listen to the class of people from whom they are asking acceptance.

      The hijra in India are not evidence of the existence of trans people in antiquity, they are evidence of a homophobic culture that turned feminine gay men into a “third gender” for men’s use. Notice there is not an equivalent of FtM trans people there (although in some traditional patriarchal cultures that have not practiced female infanticide, a “surfeit” of female children meant a female child could take on the role of a son, dressing and acting as a male, and being treated as one; however, such a child could never marry or have children). “Two-spirit” Native Americans are more evidence of acknowledgment of sex role fluidity than sex role rigidity. In certain tribal cultures (Polynesia comes to mind, and I think Malaysia too, though I can’t remember for sure) there is less of a sense of what is “masculine” and “feminine,” and men and women have more or less the same traits; in these cultures, women admire what we’d consider “feminine” qualities in a man, that is, gentleness, kindness, empathy, and nurturing, and consider men with such qualities to be superior mates; similarly men do not discriminate against assertive, capable women. There is more of a balance and overlap in traits (and the differences are down to personality more than sex), more sexual harmony, and not only a low incidence of sexual violence but a low incidence of violence overall. I think this says a lot about the harmful nature of gender roles in our “civilized” societies.

      I see most of the desire to “change gender” as a symptom of the patriarchy and the harmful construct of gender upon which it is based, not as proof of gender’s existence; and the idea of a “multitude of genders” renders the concept of gender meaningless, focusing on individual identities rather than focusing on the fact that really, men and women are much more similar than we are different and choosing to focus on our commonalities. In fact there seems to be a split (pardon the pun) in the trans community about those who believe in the gender binary and those who don’t, although nearly all of those most vocal are in agreement that they should get sexual access to whomever they want. I am excluding the gender apostates in this critique (trans people who are vocally against certain harmful and reactionary aspects of the trans activist movement). I think there are many, many trans people out there who understand all this and stay out of it because they just want to live their lives, and understand how some (many) women feel about the idea of penises in our private spaces, and also understand that though they themselves as trans-identified people may experience dysphoria, inconvenience, discrimination and outright violence for being trans, so do many other people experience these things for different reasons (women come to mind; women who don’t buy into patriarchal scripts are dysphoric from day one). Oh, and yes–I’d venture a guess that most of us on here know and have spoken with many trans people about these very issues.

      I further contend that transwomen are not raped more than women (do you have a source for this claim)? Many women are raped specifically for being women (child brides and other such practices of forced marriage, corrective rape, etc). Transwomen are often raped in prostitution, just as women are. Transwomen may face the issue of transphobia from those who are also homophobic; lesbian women face homophobia too. Women–homosexual or heterosexual–desiring safe spaces are not being transphobic. The first thing a person with XY chromosomes who desires to truly live the female experience needs to do is drop that male entitlement at the door.

      Transwomen do not have a “right” to access women’s safe spaces. Other options have been offered, but they have been refused, because that means that some women do not accept that transwomen are actually female. Trans people do not have the right to insist that everyone else in the world bend to their wishes and pretend not to understand basic science to agree that trans people are actually the biological sex they say they are, and I think it is condescending to have to lie to someone not to hurt his or her feelings and further believe that such a lie is a not a basis for any kind of honest and meaningful relationship (and radical feminists do not believe that gender is real at all, making “gender identity” a moot point).

      To turn this on its head, radical feminists could simply say that we are being oppressed by this witch hunt, being branded bigots, no-platformed, and threatened with violence for holding a worldview which is hurting no one (hurting someone’s feelings by politely disagreeing does not constitute violence, and we have consistently advocated for a third space for trans-identified people, in order for all of us to feel safe from male violence in public facilities; this notion has been roundly and soundly rejected, because it means that trans-identified people are “not accepted” as that which they want to be, although the reality is that many of us are not accepted as that which we want to be). Women did not receive public facilities until the late nineteenth or early twentieth century, not even in “civilized” nations, and it was a sign of public acceptance when we did, that women were a part of public life and discourse, as well as of the workforce. Facilities designed for trans-identified people could similarly be seen as a mark of progress, not one of discrimination.

      And finally, no one should be coerced into sexual activity with a person with whom they don’t want to have sex. Coercion is wrong.

      • M. Zoidberg

        >>”The first thing a person with XY chromosomes who desires to truly live the female experience needs to do is drop that male entitlement at the door.”


      • Alienigena

        “Transwomen are often raped in prostitution, just as women are.”

        Yes. So why are biological females the targets of their hate campaigns and frankly their online rage fueled pity parties. Cowardice. Afraid to confront biological males with the virulence they do biological females.

        • Meghan Murphy

          Also why are all trans activists pro-prostitution? Why not join us in our efforts to abolish the sex trade?

    • Danielle Matheson

      You know what I don’t understand? When did it become unreasonable for a person to not want to have their sexual boundaries crossed. When a woman says she is a lesbian and only had sex with women (and you know I mean women who are not trans, I’m done referring to women in relation to anything else) why is it okay to try and convince her otherwise? That is rape culture. It should not be unreasonable for any person to say no to sex they don’t want. Their reasons are no one else’s business. Just like your reasons for not wanting sex with someone are only your business. The conversation should end at “no thanks”.

    • Aylune B. Papyrus

      How is guilt-tripping lesbians into accepting transwomen into their sex lives ”trying to survive” ?

      • catlogic

        Because the poor dudes will diiiiiie if they don’t get their ladydicks serviced!

    • Alienigena

      The writers on this site have addressed the consent issue over and over again. It is not sufficient and is a flawed principle to rely on. Just enter the term ‘consent’ in the search field and you will see a number of results on this site. Some examples are provided below.

      “anything that can be said to be “consensual” is allowed to exist in a magical bubble, safe from any criticism whatsoever, because consent.”


      “Consent is the magical fairy dust which turns rape into sex; trafficking into free speech; and sexualized abuse, torture, and subjugation into sexual liberation — or so many people claim. Many “sex-positive feminists” acknowledge the legal standard of consent (defined as a lack of active resistance) is problematic: it is victim-blaming, it normalizes male sexual aggression, it arbitrarily draws a line between how much coercion is “too much” (it generally does not allow direct physical coercion, but permits social, emotional, and economic coercion), and it is irrelevant whether a woman wants to engage in sexual activity or merely submits to it.”


    • cinderchild

      “the cotton ceiling” is most definitely an attempt at forcing and taking sex from lesbians; saying that “the cotton ceiling is something to be overcome” is rape culture. stop with this “survival” nonsense; you can SURVIVE without FORCING LESBIANS TO ACCEPT YOUR PENISES

      also all that “exclusion” and fear you’re talking about? welcome to women’s lived experiences for forever.

    • Sashimi73

      Just stop trying to make lesbians have sex with you. Maybe people wouldn’t hate you as much for trying to gaslight them.

    • Danielle Matheson

      Please explain how a transwoman ‘s penis and a man’s penis. How is it different than straight guys saying lesbians should have sex with?

  • Ying Ma

    Sexuality is fluid. Young women can sometimes be uncertain of who they are and what they like. Encouraging young lesbians to try some sexual experimentation can be good advice. No force. Just encouragement/suggestion. I’m a proud feminist and I definitely enjoy sex with my husband. But in high school I thought maybe I was something other than heterosexual. I tried some things. I had relationships with guys and girls. There was no rape involved.

    • machine broke

      If lesbians had a dollar for every time someone told us to just “try men” we’d have enough to buy an island of our own and live there so we don’t have to hear that ever again from people like you.

    • FierceMild

      Read the article you’re commenting under, for the love of justice! And so you don’t come off as a moron.

      • catlogic

        Too late! 😛

    • Midori

      Sexuality is ONLY fluid if you’re bisexual. I should know, because I’m bisexual.
      Lesbians do NOT need encouragement or suggestions to try out sex with men, especially not from women like you, who call themselves “proud feminists”, while holding the exact same views as conversion therapists and their sympathisers. Lesbians are female people exclusively attracted to other female people and that’s it. No dick involved, EVER!

      • Ying Ma

        I’m open to this but skeptical. I believe there are men who are only attracted to other men and who will always firmly remain that way. Because they view male bodies the way hetero guys view female bodies. I don’t think lesbianism is based on the same kind of switch flip.

        • Danielle Matheson

          That’s because you’re ignorant. And clearly you haven’t talked to actual lesbians.

      • Danielle Matheson

        Get it! I basically said the same shit. Just wanted to leave kudos!

    • M. Zoidberg

      Nice burner account.
      (I’d use one too if I said things a dumb as you do.)

    • Danielle Matheson

      Sexuality is not as fluid as sex pozzies think it is. I knew I liked guys and girls from a young age and that hasn’t changed one bit in all these years. I don’t really like one more than the other either. And actually with age, all I’ve realized is that I don’t want to get married and have kids.

      This harkens back to the cotton ceiling, which is basically corrective rape in a fancy new package. Trust lesbians to know they know their sexualities. It’s completely offensive to say maybe they just haven’t found the right dick yet. And that’s what I’m getting from your reply.

    • Aylune B. Papyrus

      Declaring that ”sexuality is fluid” for everyone is disrespectful, frankly.
      ”Sexuality is fluid” is a new slogan that we’re hearing a lot recently, but is there really any truth in it ? What is it based on ? Isn’t it just a catchy phrase meant to go along with the sex-positive movement (or ”pressure everyone into having a super edgy original and liberated sex life” movement) ?

      • Alienigena

        There was a recent news story about the conviction of a 27 year old woman on charges of assaulting a young woman (19 year old) on a airplane. The 27 year old’s behavior seemed very frat boy/sorority sister in the sense that it involved the sexual humiliation and hazing of a younger person.


        I don’t believe that female assaulter is a lesbian and her sexuality is not fluid. He behaviour seemed to be an attempt to establish dominance over a younger, poorer person. She was drunk but having had a father who behaved abusively both sober and drunk, the alcohol is not really the issue, the mindset, sense of entitlement and the behaviour of the abusive person are what is relevant. The convicted woman went through some kind of detox / rehab but I don’t think it will solve the problem … that she is an entitled abusive person.

        I think it is sickening that gender fluidity is a thing and that people like the 27 year old abuser will be potentially categorized as queer. I know a number of lesbians through arts organizations, university and volunteer activities.They have pretty ordinary relationships, they don’t go around assaulting other women in public places. In fact, I would think lesbian couples would refrain from public displays of affection given the voyeuristic behaviour of men and the possibility of violence. Only silly hetero woman who think it is edgy would act out in the way the 27 year old abuser did. The lawyer for the abuser cited her experience of sexual abuse as a child as a rationale for her current behaviour but given that I don’t agree with abusive men being given a pass because of childhood sexual abuse I don’t think she should have gotten away without serving some actual jail time. What she did was not acceptable and was devastating to the victim.

    • Sashimi73

      You know, that’s actually not true. You may be bisexual, but lesbians aren’t. What you are saying is akin to encouraging your husband to have sex with men so as to make sure he’s heterosexual.

    • JingFei

      No. Not everyone’s sexuality is “fluid”. Most of us are damn sure of our sexuality, and no one should be telling us to “test” or challenge it. This ‘everyone should be pansexual’ crap is getting old. And it’s sexist to believe female sexuality is somehow flexible. Porn is not real.

  • Max Dashu

    Here’s another instance of disappearing of the female body, from Teen Vogue, where sexual anatomy gets relabeled, with “anatomy of a prostate owner” and “anatomy of a non-prostate owner.” Once again the masculine default rules, but it’s OK, because it’s nonbinary! “Not only is any potential pleasure a woman may feel during anal sex reduced to the lack of male body parts (she is a “non-prostate owner”) but the clitoris, the actual hub of female sexual pleasure, has been removed. The lack of a male body part is the focus of what defines the female body, and what is actually there isn’t identified at all.

    “What is this teaching the audience of a magazine aimed at teenage girls? It tells them their identity is not “woman”, but rather “non-man”. [Green Party UK, redux!] It tells them that should they consent to anal sex, their body is just a hole for the man to penetrate, and the part of their body that is most sensitive and reliable for the female orgasm is so irrelevant that it doesn’t even warrant a label. It tells them that consenting to anal sex is not about their pleasure, but about their partner’s.”

    • JJ Barnes

      Thanks for your feedback and for sharing my Independent article too.

    • Sashimi73

      Men = Non-clitoris owners.

  • Meghan Murphy

    With regard to your comments about menstruation, childbirth, fear of pregnancy, access to abortion, etc., you are talking about females, so of course feminists care…

  • FierceMild

    But you’re a woman and not a man. That’s why you have all the problems women have as well as all the troubles of someone trying to force others to deny physical reality and indulge their delusions. That’s not the fault of feminism. It’s the fault of patriarchy.

    Also, you might want to surf around this site a little and read some of the articles before you decide that people here don’t care about transmen. Just because we don’t indulge sex-as-identity thinking doesn’t mean we don’t care what happens to women who want to be men. We do.

  • Meghan Murphy

    What’s a ‘ciswoman’?

    • Jessica Iza Chanel

      A moderator who won’t educate themselves. Hmmm.

      • Meghan Murphy

        It’s weird that none of you are able or willing to define the terms you invent…

  • FierceMild

    Welcome to the dark side, sister!

  • Ying Ma

    Thanks for such a thoughtful reply. I’ll meditate on this. Don’t want to react without first mulling it over.

    • Yisheng Qingwa

      How about you just take a hike, dude?

  • Ying Ma

    I don’t think people in committed exclusive relationships engaging in affairs is equivalent to what I described. I’m sorry if you’ve been harassed or mistreated.

    • Melanie

      This has nothing to do with me. We’re talking about your ignorant comments. Whether your husband is with you or not is not the point. The point is his sexuality is respected, unlike lesbian sexuality.

  • Ying Ma

    Let’s be honest, aren’t all women a little bi? Our sexuality is different from the binary gay vs straight paradigm which is based in the male perspective and the male experience.

    • M. Zoidberg

      >>”Let’s be honest, aren’t all women a little bi?”


    • Danielle Matheson

      No, they aren’t. Straight women know they’re straight. There’s nothing wrong with being heterosexual. Just like there’s nothing wrong with being bisexual or gay. You just keep making wild assumptions. You’re essentially saying lesbians don’t know they’re actually lesbians bc they’ve never tried dick before. That is beyond ignorant and say into patriarchy territory.

    • Zuzanna Smith


    • catlogic

      Let’s be honest, no we are fucking not.

    • Sashimi73

      Lol, funny. No.

    • Lynn

      No. That is absolutely porn nonsense.

    • northernTNT

      EVEN IF sexuality in women is fluid, it’s STILL no reason to be called transphobic if a woman does not want to sleep with a male!

  • FierceMild

    You are being intellectually dishonest. You are a man. Men hold power over woman politically, religiously, socially, economically, and in most cases physically. In the US where I live, transwomen (again because they are male) hold more constitutional rights then actual women.

    Saying transwomen have no power over us is just not true. You have the power to take away our sports:
    To co-opt our awards:
    To walk into the private spaces we fought to have set aside for the intimate needs of our bodies:
    To take over the shelters we made to protect ourselves from men who want to force themselves upon us in one way or another (like you):
    You enforce silence around the naming of our bodies:
    You annex our sexuality:
    In other words, you have all of the rights of a man in a man’s world unless YOU CHOOSE to let go of a few. But somehow, the rights and powers you want to let go of are never the rights men grant themselves to dominate and override women. You just can’t handle when we say no to you. http://notazerosumgame.blogspot.co.uk/2014/09/radfem-panic-when-demands-for.html?m=1

  • lk

    Women do not have penises.

    Transwomen are biological men and therefore do not have the same struggles or concerns as women.

  • lk

    The article is not about transwomen literally raping women and violating consent.

    The article is about the ways in which trans-ideology is disrespecting lesbians by pressuring, bullying and encouraging women to have sex with men. The article highlights examples where transactivist label lesbians who dont want to have sex with men as transphobic/bigoted.

    Lesbianism is about attraction to women.

    Transwomen are men.

    Lesbians should not feel like they need to date men in order to validate trans-identity or that by refusing to date men that they are doing something wrong.

  • pseudonamed

    Are straight men being pressured to accept penises into their sex lives? Why does it seem its always women who are being pressured but not men?

    • ptittle

      YES!! (And why did so many of us fail to think of that? SIgh.)

  • Anon

    Sorry your mental health is in shambles, and your body hatred is extreme.

  • FierceMild

    What are you talking about?

    1) I have no desire to vomit on anyone. Ever.
    2)your happiness is not the goal of all discourse or relevant to this debate.
    3) I owe you neither support nor affection. You are a stranger.
    4) I have made not one single demand of you or your body. Not one.
    5) I have no desire to force you to do anything. You, however, are attempting to force other people to agree that chopping off your breasts makes you a man. It makes you a woman who chopped off her breasts.

  • FierceMild

    You need to look up ‘illogical’.

  • Willow

    In her video ‘You’re dating preferences are discriminatory’ Riley J Dennis says

    ‘Would you date a trans person, honestly? Think about it for a second. OK got your answer? Well if you said no, I’m sorry but that’s pretty discriminatory.’

    Now, we all know that discrimination is a bad thing, so she’s basically saying it’s not OK to not date a certain group of people, regardless of whether we want to date those people.

    This tactic is manipulative and it’s emotional blackmail. Emotional blackmail can be a pretty powerful force and the people who use it do have power over those they use it on.

    It’s not just Riley’s video, there are very many articles and videos and tweets reinforcing this message. It particularly gets directed at lesbians, just google cotton ceiling.

    Unfortunately, some young impressionable people are falling for this pressure, which is why it’s not OK.

  • Danielle Matheson

    Seriously? You’re the one raging here. Erasing females is what the trans cult is doing. It’s not inclusive to anyone but trans people. Females are still female whether they identify as trans or not. Trans politics is taking away, bulldozing rather, the ability for women to define themselves and talk about our bodies and struggles. It is not trans peoples right to define women. It’s women’s right. We’ve been fighting for centuries and now it’s being blown up by ridiculous people like you.

  • Danielle Matheson

    See, I learned all this in cultural anthropology 101. It’s basic knowledge. Thank you for laying it out though!

  • Danielle Matheson

    I always enjoy your thoughtful comments! The last paragraph says it all so plainly, so filled with common sense, it still boggles my mind that people don’t get it yet.

  • Danielle Matheson

    Once someone says no, it’s over. No more discussion. It’s none of your business why lesbians don’t want to have sex with you. You already know the answer. It’s no different than her rejecting a hetero guy. A penis is a penis is a penis. Lesbians like the vag. It’s pretty much what makes them lesbians. The whole fucking point you seem to be missing is that lesbians are females attracted to females. I can say this 20 million ways but I don’t think it’ll matter.

  • Danielle Matheson

    What discrimination then? If you feel like you’re not being heard, simplify it down here. Because all I’m seeing is that you’re saying trans women want to be considered lesbians (which you can’t bc you’re males—sex is physical, not theoretical, therefore if a penis and vagina are involved it’s hetero sex, because they have different (hetero) parts, this when two of the same parts (no no meaning same) it’s homosexual sex). And lesbians are tired of straight people and trans people telling them they just need to find the right dick. It’s offensive, at best and homophobic. So check your male privilege at the door.

  • VeroDet

    I find it kind of amusing that any site would publish something so poorly written, let alone that anyone would cite it for validation. The author hasn’t even mastered subject-verb agreement, in what I presume to be her mother tongue. But forget about pedantry for a moment, and let’s look at the piece’s more serious flaws.

    The gist of her essay is that lesbians are “pressured” into dating pre-/non-op trans women, and that this is similar to “corrective” rape.

    Yet the piece is supported by only two examples–a tweet and a YouTube video–from actual trans women; while the YouTuber produces a baffling quote (“If you’re a woman who only likes women, go ahead, **identify** as a lesbian” [emphasis mine]), even she is very explicit about consent and preference, in the video.

    But never does the author make an explicit link between the supposed similarities between “corrective” rape and lesbian sex involving trans and non-trans women. In fact, the closest she comes to mis-gendering trans women is by stating lesbians’ preference not to date trans women assumes “lesbians do not…reject male bodies.” She refers to the trans lesbians as lesbians throughout, which negates her own attempt to conflate their intimate relationships with forced marriages and so on.

    On the author’s own terms, none of her examples involving trans women constitutes “corrective” rape.

    It’s also kind of ironic (cue the Alanis Morrissette) that the author, who is no doubt painfully familiar with the old-school homophobic images of gays and lesbians as predators, now paints trans women as such. But her own opinion piece goes a ways toward showing that the T is no more inherently predatory than the L or the G.

    Ellen Page parties with Laverne Cox. Tegan and Sara totally support trans women. So do Cameron Esposito and Rhea Butcher.

    Milo Yiannopoulos, on the other hand, writes off lesbianism and transgenderism as neurotic tics. Obviously, he’s one of the dimmer bulbs in the cultural chandelier, but he’s also got an audience of millions–and thus the ability to do real damage to lesbians and transgender people.

    • Alienigena

      “Ellen Page parties with Laverne Cox. Tegan and Sara totally support trans women”

      I am supposed to care who celebrities party with or about the substance of their politics? I just wish celebrities would STFU about politics and feminism.

      “mis-gendering trans women is by stating lesbians’ preference not to date trans women assumes “lesbians do not…reject male bodies.”

      1) Misgendering is not a real issue except to trans activists and their allies. 2) Gender is not equivalent to biological sex so it is correct to describe trans identified males (MtTs) as having male bodies.

      “old-school homophobic images of gays and lesbians as predators, now paints trans women as such”

      Feminism is founded on women’s biology. Just research the suffragette movement’s interest in providing sexual health information and contraception to women in the 1800s.


      Biological females have no obligation to support the male bodied. If MtTs want a movement, want safe spaces they should fund raise to create those safe spaces for themselves rather than insist that biological females share their safe spaces (which females fought for and sought funding for).

      Gay couples, straight single men and others (infertile heterosexual couples) expect biological women in the developed and developing world to act as surrogates for their fetuses. That seems pretty exploitative given the serious health consequences that surrogates can suffer from. Some MtTs have also suggested that they would like to use the services of surrogate mothers.




      Both gay and straight men can be misogynistic. Gay men are not just victims here and neither are MtTs who express some pretty misogynistic views.



      Biological females are reduced to the status of gestational carriers on this site designed to help gay men who want to use the services of a surrogate.


      In my view and the vast majority of women who comment on this site surrogacy is simply exploitation, frequently of poor biological females.


      You may want to restrict the discussion to the rights of MtTs but those rights always seem to impinge on the rights and bodily integrity of biological females.

      • VeroDet

        Your reply doesn’t deal directly with my post.

        However, I’m going to address the points you (seem to be trying to) make that are at least tangentially relevant to my post.

        1. Citing lesbian celebrities’ support of trans women (as well as a certain troll’s denial of their existence) is a rhetorical device; by using examples most of us are familiar with, I’m showing that the relationship between trans women and non-trans lesbians isn’t inherently antagonistic.


        2. The general public’s lack of knowledge about trans issues (“Misgendering is not a real issue except to trans activists and their allies”) does not negate the existence of those issues.


        Besides, mis-gendering isn’t solely a transgender issue. Roxanne Gay, for instance, writes about being referred to as a “man,” presumably because of the size of her body. There have been numerous instances of non-trans women being kicked out of establishments for using their women’s rooms–simply because these women didn’t appear “feminine” enough to someone or other who happened to see them.



        Regardless, my point was the author refers to trans women as women, that she doesn’t mis-gender.

        3. You write that it is “correct to describe trans identified males (MtTs) [sic] as having male bodies.” Assuming you are referring to male-to-female transsexuals, I would still suggest you’re making a semantic argument. Hormone replacement therapy will bring a trans woman’s estrogen and testosterone counts into the same balance as a non-trans woman’s. Any number of surgical options are available to help treat gender dysphoria.

        A bit of extrapolation uncovers further difficulties. For example, what about XY women (or, for that matter, XX men)? What about intersex people? And what about the previous examples of non-trans women whose appearances are “masculine” enough that *they* are mis-gendered?



        Again, you seem to have missed my point: the author never actually mis-genders trans women.

        4. Your claim that feminism is “founded on women’s biology” seems to suggest that trans issues are not feminist issues because of said foundation.

        Presuming this is the point you’re trying to make, it is dubious at best, considering current research suggesting the biological basis of transgenderism.


        If the corollary is supposed to be that first-wave feminism was “founded” on reproductive rights, that’s simply not true. For instance, there was opposition to abortion among many first-wave feminists. First-wave feminists advocated for a wide range of causes, including the vote and an abolition.

        If you’re also claiming by extension trans women cannot be women because of their inability to give birth, you’re essentially abetting the gynoticians’ misogyny, not to mention negating the womanhood of any infertile woman.

        “old-school homophobic images of gays and lesbians as predators, now paints trans women as such”
        Feminism is founded on women’s biology. Just research the suffragette movement’s interest in providing sexual health information and contraception to women in the 1800s.

        • M. Zoidberg

          Men ≠ Women*

          *Science (y’know, facts instead of feelings?)

        • Tweek Jones

          You are misgendering lesbians. We are by defintition not attracted to transwomen/males.

    • Tweek Jones

      Transwomen cannot be lesbian as they’re biologically male. A transwoman calling himself a lesbian is a corrective rapey dude by definition.

  • Aylune B. Papyrus

    Why is it that when a feminist publishes a thoughtful piece about the dangers of transgender ideology, a number of trans activists or supporters will so often respond with ”Well transwomen are HORRIBLY oppressed”, as if that was somehow an argument ?

    The way trans people are mistreated is disgusting, but it shouldn’t be used as an excuse to rebuff critiques of the movement’s most problematic aspects, notably the erasure of women, trampling of their rights, and the pressure put on lesbians to accept males into their sex lives.
    Please respond to the arguments being made.

  • Americus91

    Sadly I fear it’s only transparent for those of us old and wise enough – which is why they go after young girls in Teen Vogue, youtube and tumblr.

    Predators – all of them.

  • Hanakai

    What Teen Vogue ought to be telling teenage girls about anal sex is that the women who perform in porn doing anal sex have a career shelf life of merely three to six months — after that time, their anal sphincter and other structures are too damaged to permit further performances aka abuse.

    Nature designed the anus in a remarkable feat of bioengineering to hold the feces in until one could conveniently release them. The biodesign is for output, not input. As a result, many traumas and injuries result from anal penetration, and it is also a site where infections are easily spread.

    Teen Vogue ought to be writing about things like anal prolapse, the anus lacking natural lubrication making infection more likely, the delicacy of the intra-anal tissues, incontinence and other problems of abused anuses.

    They ought to be giving girls accurate information. This normalizing of sodomy is harmful to women. So now men are into coprophilia.

    Here is a thing to do. Smear some poop on a microscope slide, stain it, and show it to the young under a powerful light microscope. There is a reason we cover and flush poop and try to keep flies from walking on it and then spreading it to other surfaces.

    How fortunate are those of us who did not grow up in the Porn Generation.

    • Zuzanna Smith

      When I was a teen, fashion magazines just made me feel inadequate but this is akin to grooming and abuse.

      • Cassandra

        I don’t think it’s even “akin,” Zuzanna; I think it IS grooming and abuse.

        • Mandy

          Has anyone looked further into who the author of the piece is? Is it a man or a woman who’s been sucked into the porn sex posi bubble? Who okay-ed this weird ass article? Who provided the bad art?

      • Just Passing Through

        Yes it is absolutely!

    • Just Passing Through

      I know …my heart seriously breaks for young girls and young women today. The young men of their generation are just drenched in porn and are growing up to think what they see on the screen is so “normal and healthy”. So fking sad!

  • Alienigena

    “ive the right to be illogical, the world is subjective and relative, but let me police you and tell you how the world works, your subjective stance is wrong”

    Sounds like libertarian logic. ‘Do as I say, not as I do … because if everyone did there would be absolute chaos and the world would be even more hellish than it already is.’

    • radwonka

      Very true!
      libertarians are also illogical: “Freedom is relative but only the free market represents freedom so it’s not relative”.

      It’s not surprising that libertarians (right wing or left wing) love postmodernism (aka nonsense) so much.

  • Alienigena

    Yes. Women refuse all the time to have sex with biological males but then they are assaulted/overpowered, threatened with a weapon, their children are threatened, etc.

    I would also ask, what is the average height/weight of an MtT relative to the average woman? What is the relative muscular strength of each?

  • Alienigena

    Why does everyone always act as if religions and religious people should be exempt from criticism. Freedom of religion frequently just seems freedom to perpetuate ridiculous and hateful ideas. I realise that ideologues of any variety are just as bad, doesn’t mean that religion is good.

  • cinderchild

    i got nothin

  • Wren

    That’s horrific and spoken like a true rapist.

  • Wren

    Trans ideology is homophobia on steroids. Literally and figuratively.

  • Zuzanna Smith

    Yeah lesbians are just so confoosed about everything, what the hell is your deal?

  • Zuzanna Smith

    Lol, “I will kill myself unless you do what I say” is basically a mantra of abusive males, congratulations on your masculinity sir.

    • lk

      What is the deal with ALWAYS bringing up suicide?!

      Rational person: A man cannot become a woman. A lesbian does not need to have sex with a man. Males cannot have periods.

      Transactivist: Do you know how many transpeople attempt suicide every year? X% of transyouth are bullied/harrased? Trans people are literally being murdered and killed.

      I think TRA’s are masters at derailing + guilt-tripping + manipulating. Instead of engaging in rational discourse, or answering questions you’ve asked (like what is a man? what is a woman? how are babies made?..they sidetrack the conversation.

      Telling me about trans-suicide rates in no way changes biological fact…nor does it obligate women to give up female-only spaces.

      If I had a penny for every trans-article/video/tweet that mentioned suicide rates, I would be filthy rich.

  • lk

    “discrimination, bigotry and prejudice.”

    These words mean very specific things…it is neither bigotry or prejudiced for a lesbian to refuse a MTF as a romantic/sexual partner.

    Discrimination is not always wrong….and I am allowed to discriminate when it comes to who I date or have in my bed. For example, a woman may discriminate by refuse to date a man who watches pornography or uses prostitutes…

    Obviously, discriminating against people in a way that keeps them for surviving in life (I.E. refusing to hire, house, or provide medical care b/c of someone’s race) is wrong.

    How can you not see that suggesting, pressuring or encouraging women to date men is deeply homophobic and incredibly sexist?

  • Morag999

    “I mean, this is the most egregious instance of neoliberalism ever… so we should unthinkingly accept and glorify everything women do because, if we don’t, we’re basically like patriarchy ?”

    Yup. That’s how it is now. Make an argument for women’s humanity (e.g., that women should never be bought and sold, or paid to sexually service men) and suddenly we’re “just like” the men who run the entire shit show. Worse, in fact, because our critiques of brutal male systems of power somehow “removes women’s agency.”

    The concept of female “agency” has almost completely replaced the reality of female humanity.

  • Morag999

    “I can honestly say that even straight women who complain and say that they could do without dick and the trouble it causes suddenly make it central in their lives when they learn that trans men exist.”

    Huh? What does this sentence mean?

  • Meghan Murphy

    I, also, did not send your comment to the spam folder, Sophie. But I will take a look. Sometimes things end up in there for no apparent reason.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Huh? How do you figure?

  • Yisheng Qingwa

    Refusing to indulge male delusions and male entitlement is not bigotry. Fuck off.

  • Cassandra

    I don’t know why I let myself read his or her comments. It’s rare that someone combines such a condescending tone with such ignorance and fuckwittery dressed in Ann Taylor prose that’s trying to pass as Rochas.

    • Morag999

      Right, exactly. My favourite part is when she or he attempts to put our refusal of this sex-change fuckwittery into the same camp as the climate change deniers. A total reversal, and a sadly comical one, too. Gah, what a fraud!

  • lk

    Everytime I see a trans supporter comment on FC, I tell myself not to even bother responding.

    ..Because it it like talking to a deeply religious person. No amount of facts or objective truth sways their faith that a man can magically become a woman, that some men are born with the souls of females….

    But when I see comments like “Women have penises”….I just can’t not say something.

  • Cassandra

    She or he was trying to say that someone’s accusation of “cissexism” being equated with people justifying the violence of corrective rape is horrendous and illogical. It was just extremely poorly worded and complicated for no reason, just as most pomo writing and/or the writing of someone who’s been steeped in it is.

    Hemingway was a womanizing dickhead but many of the commenters in this here comment section need to be locked up with nothing but his novels for a few years until they can actually write a proper sentence again.

  • Cassandra

    Yup. It’s fucking horrifying. It makes me boil. And you know all the people who still run these publications are men, right? Female editors are just puppets.

  • Cassandra

    Whaaaaaaattt? What the fuck do you know about anybody’s sexuality but your own?

  • Cassandra

    You’re what they call a major league asshole.

  • Hekate Jayne

    So lesbians are only lesbians because they are confused?

    You have now convinced me that you are a dude.

  • VeroDet

    Like other commenters on my posts, you’re (conveniently) overlooking the points I’ve made. As I write in the first post, a “rejection of transgender people still doesn’t make the ‘link’ between ‘corrective’ rape and lesbian relationships between trans and non-trans women.”

    Your insistence that I substantiate organizations’ positions that “men can literally become women” and that I provide definitions of those is a form of circular logic. If you yourself don’t accept transgender people, then terms by which the medical and psychological establishments do will not be acceptable to you either. The AMA and APA accept trans women as women, and trans men as men.

    Just as you’re free to deny climate change (or display your ignorance of what constitutes scare quotes), you’re under no obligation to accept transgender people. Of course, that puts you in the same camp as the alternative facts crowd: your opinions trump (pardon the pun) their expert research.

    From the AMA: “Delegates directed the AMA to work with other appropriate organizations to “inform and educate the medical community and the public on the medical spectrum of gender identity.” The authors of the adopted resolution wrote that gender is ‘incompletely understood as a binary selection’ because gender, gender identity, sexual orientation, and genotypic and phenotypic sex are not always aligned.”


    From the APA: “Psychologists who work with transgender or gender nonconforming people should seek to provide acceptance, support and understanding without making assumptions about their clients’ gender identities or gender expressions, according to practice guidelines adopted during the American Psychological Association’s 123rd Annual Convention.”


    • M. Zoidberg

      So, I think we should all stand in solidarity and stop indulging VeroDet’s rants until he or she answers the following:

      Define what is…

      1) A man?
      2) A woman?

      Facts are not subjective, so, if you will, please.

    • Tweek Jones

      We are not ‘overlooking’ the points you are making. Transwomen are biologically male regardless of how they identify themselves. Lesbians dont care about how you identify, your physical body is bio male. Thats enough, we are not attracted to transwomen therefore. You need to stop harassing lesbians with this lesbophobia of yours, it is a form of corrective rape. Go bother bisexual, pansexual and queer women. Lesbians arent attracted to bio males in whatever form.

  • lk

    Actually vaginas are just inverted penises…so they are totes male!!

    We need to let gay men of the world know!

    Gay men better start having sex with women….because to refuse my male vagina is Bigotry!Prejudice! Hatred!

    Gay men refusing sex with women is literal violence! If gay guys would just have sex with women…violence against women would completely disappear!!!

    We gotta break the boxer ceiling and make sure gay men begin having sex with vagina-havers..

  • M. Zoidberg

    Ying Ma, please stop with the “all women are a little bi” thing from earlier. We answered you: No.

    Where are you getting your information from, porn?

  • catlogic

    Codswallop. Most people are heterosexual, some are homosexual, some are bisexual. The latter two can be men or women but in either case are minorities. Don’t pull that same essentially rapey shit of telling women how our own orientation *really* works.

  • catlogic

    You’ve got a goddamn nerve, framing lesbianism as a trauma response or confusion. It’s an innate sexual orientation, just like all the others. You’re no feminist. I find it hard to believe you’re anything but a porn-soaked male.

    • Danielle Matheson

      Get it, sister!!!!

  • Sashimi73

    This reply is sad, because it shows how ignorant you are.

  • Lynn

    That’s not true. Certainly some (many)women do not enjoy it, but others myself included do. I can achieve orgasm from anal sex, whether or not a man is even present.

    Although I absolutely agree that this teen vogue article is complete garbage.

    • Hanakai

      It will not be so pleasurable when you are in your 50s, 60s and 70s suffering from fecal incontinence.

      Old people tend to have plenty of gastro-intestinal problems as it is, even without the complications resulting from repeated anal penetration. Talk to a proctologist sometime.

      When porn culture started pressuring women into anal sex and normalizing anal sex, and also with the aging of the Baby Boomers, I recognized that it was a good time to invest in companies that manufacture adult diapers. Business is booming.

  • Mandy

    Or if they really wanted to go through with this (they shouldn’t have) but they could have made it about teaching girls about pegging boys. Girls already face enough coercion to have anal and boys already ignore the clitoris/female orgasms as is.

  • Danielle Matheson

    No one is mocking the actual struggles of transfolk. Sex is not a human right.Trying to suggest that lesbians try sex with Trans woman is lesbophobic and dripping with rape culture. You’re no different than people suggesting lesbians try straight guy dick.Sex with a penis is still male and female genitalia coming together…meaning not lesbian sex.

  • Danielle Matheson

    Exactly! Thank you for laying it out.

  • Morag999

    I know! C-R-A-Z-Y.

  • lk

    “Omg is I hear Intersex people used by Trans activists ONE MORE TIME.”

    The moment I saw intersex, I just rolled my eyes…

    Intersex people and infertile women in no way disprove the existence of male and female biology.

  • Wombat

    Anyone else wondering why Dan Savage isn’t being inundated with death threats for his transphobic comments about how vaginas are “gross”? After all, aren’t gay men equally obliged to go down on trans men with vaginas?

    Or is it just people born with vaginas that don’t get to have boundaries?

  • lk

    It’s so strange to me that TRA’s lump breaking the cotton ceiling with issues like trans-murder/suicide rates, homelessness, poverty etc.

    Lack of access to housing and being able to have sex with whoever you want is NOT the same.

    For some reason, TRA’s have decided that women accepting “girl dicks” into their love lives will magically make all the issues trans people face just disappear.

    They really seem to want female approval, while at the same time constantly violating our boundaries and our concerns.

  • Lynn

    Why doesn’t it make biological sense? Even if we accept that the clitoris is the only consideration for orgasm or pleasure. It is a rooted organ. Every woman will have some variation in its structure. The vagina is very close to the anus and there is no reason why stimulating one area couldn’t impact the other It is really not so hard to believe. I am not suffering from a delusion and I am pretty sure I know what an orgasm is. What about women who orgasm through breast stimulation? Are they also have delusions?

    I absolutely do not agree with your second point. You are making women responsible for the behaviour men.

  • Lynn

    “Cis” and “Trans” are organic chemistry terms having to do with the orientation of chemical bonds on otherwise identical molecules.

  • Meghan Murphy

    So I am trans, then?

  • Wren

    “The suffering of transwomen is not some sort of magical currency with which you can buy entitlement to women. Womanhood is not some sort of fetish club you can purchase a membership to with your pain. Our bodies are not the prize you get to penetrate because other men were mean to you. ”

    Damn that’s it, isn’t it? Men (the sex class to which transwomen belong!!) have expanded this involuntary BDSM game that women are conscripted into since infancy to force us to play out their autogynephia fantasy. Plain old rape is just not as satisfying for them anymore and it’s our fault, apparently.

  • Cassandra

    You do know that there’s no such thing as a “female mind,” right? What is a “female mind” to you? If you can define that without using sex-role stereotypes/sexist hogwash I’ll give you a million dollars. And I”ll give you another million if you can define “female gender” without also resorting to sexist horse shit. It’s like you guys want us all to go back to 1953. You’re sooooo conservative.

  • Hanakai

    A lot of Frankenmen, men who are under the delusion that they are women, engage in illegal activity: using and selling methamphetamine, prostitution, drug crimes, property crimes, sex crimes.

    The police refer to these males who think they are transgender as LadyMen.

  • meh

    Transvestites. Perfectly functional word. Too bad if they don’t like it, they’re not fucking women and I’m not fucking calling them women. Ever.

  • Meghan Murphy

    A few questions:
    May I ask how you determine what constitutes ‘click-bait’?

    Do you believe the author was insincere and writing it only for ‘clicks’?

    How do you define ‘woman’?

  • lk

    What is a woman? What is a man? How are babies made?

  • lk

    The article is discussing the rhetoric of transideolgy that pressures lesbians into dating biological men.
    Women who refuse to date MTF’s are labeled as transphobic + bigoted people. Lesbians are being asked to believe categorically untrue statements like: Penises are female. Some girls have penises.

    This boils down to a larger issue in rape culture: that women are not allowed to say no, that women are not allowed to have sexual boundaries.

    Lesbians deserve to have their sexuality valued and respected…they do not need to be pressured or expected to allow men into their sex lives.

  • ElaineMiller

    Middle-aged feminist leatherdyke here.

    Equating social pressure from your peers to become less rigid, restrictive and bigoted in your categorization of women to the horrors of corrective rape is a nasty form of sloppy thinking and false equivalency.

    Open your mind. You don’t need to open your personal bedsheets to anyone you’re not inviting in. But don’t add to hate, to fear, to the bigotry that trans* folks endure every day.

    There is room in my world, my community, my heart and my bed for women of all types.

    Except for the mean ones.

    • Morag999

      Middle-aged feminist meanie here.

      I’m sure we’re all very impressed by your world, how roomy it is, and by your great big open heart and mind, and by your undiscriminating tastes and activities.

      However, I need to point out to you that a man is not a special “type” of woman. Honestly — cross my heart and hope to die — he’s not. Not even if he insists that he is, or if he cries, yells, and stomps his high heels.

      What’s interesting is that many “open-minded” people — usually a code for a boundary-less, anything-goes attitude toward sexual behaviour but, ostensibly, is defined as a willingness to engage with new ideas, critiques, and ways of thinking — refuse to consider (i.e., admit) that a man, no matter what he calls himself, is still a man. I wonder why. I mean, you open-minded sexy people get VERY upset and righteous at the mere whisper that a man is just a man.

      Could it be that self-declared open-minded people are anything but? Well, I think so! But, critical thinking, when a feminist woman does it, is “mean” and “rigid, restrictive and bigoted.” Oh, you forgot to include “frigid.” Such monstrous women should be made to shut up, and if that’s not possible, then ridiculed, dismissed, ignored. This, actually, is what you mean by your imperative,”Open your mind.”

      • lk

        “Middle-aged feminist meanie here.”

        Love it 🙂

        I really don’t understand what being open-minded has to do with acknowledging fact.

        I really can’t think of anything more closed-minded than ignoring material reality in favor of feelings and unverifiable self-identification.

    • Zuzanna Smith

      Lol, translation: how dare you question men ever?!! How dare you say no to men ever?!!
      Sincerely, patriarchy’s handmaiden.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Indeed, that little clapping emoji is what passes for politics among third wavers.

  • Hekate Jayne

    Nobody is talking about controlling the language?

    I am. I am talking about who controls the language.

    I don’t like the word, transwoman. I never said that I do. I explained why I use it. And why it’s annoying for a male to be lecturing us about this.

    Language matters. For instance, I would never refer to any woman as “uppity”. Yet, when you referred to women that way, and some of us called you out, you never even acknowledged our position.

    But then, you don’t have to, do you? Which is fine. But then you lecture us about our own language.

    I get enough information about what I am doing wrong according to males everywhere. And it seems that I won’t get a break from it here.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Oh for suuuuuure.

  • Meghan Murphy

    This is not a place where we play the game of demanding we all ‘accept’ everyone’s self-identification, unequivocally, because they say so. FTR.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Curious: how do you define ‘woman’?

    • lk

      “What does feminism have to gain by shitting on trans-women?”

      What specifically in this article was shitting on transwomen?

      A lesbian by definition is a woman who is attracted to women.

      A transwoman is a biological male.

      “Woman-hood is so much more than biology, feminism has spent the last 30 years fighting for that.”
      Feminism has never denied the reality of female biology. What feminism has and continues to challenge is that our biology somehow makes us less than human, that being female=less worth, value, capability than male.

      “And also, i’m curious, If vagina=woman then would a post-op trans-women (with a vagina) Still be a “man in a dress”?”

      A post-op transwoman is still a biological male…He does not have a vagina, he has a surgical wound that has to be dilated regularly to remain open.

      Only women have vaginas-that is not a matter of high-school or middle school biology…that is observable, objective fact.

  • FierceMild

    How would a post-op transwoman get a vagina?

    • Hanakai

      As you know, a male cannot get a vagina. Only women have vaginas, and a real vagina includes a cervix, endometrial cells and is part of a reproductive system involving ovaries, Fallopian tubes and menstrual cycles. A male, at best, can only get a surgically-created invagination, a tunnel-like structure, or fake nugatory vagina.


      The link is to a video of a stylized graphic animated depiction of one of the surgical methods by which a penis is destroyed and an invaginated body cavity constructed. Being an animation, the blood, gore, bodily fluids, tissue details are not present, so it is not nearly as gross as an actual surgery.

    • lk

      This question really makes me laugh because it shows the ridiculousness of trans-ideology.

      One does not get a vagina.Females are born with one.

      Postop mtf’s have surgically created wounds that the body continually tries to close…it has nothing in common with the female vagina.

      Doctors refer to it as a neovagina…and I hate calling that because it is not a type of vagina.

  • FierceMild

    No. She defined homosexuality as being sexually attracted exclusively to people of the same sex. A lesbian is exclusively sexually attracted to women, the OP is not exclusively attracted to women, therefore the OP is not a lesbian.

  • FierceMild

    They certainly are.

  • FierceMild

    Thank you for telling me that. I see your point, but I spend a good deal of time in conversation on this topic with people who would be confused by using transvestite.

  • FierceMild

    I agree. I was using the stats provided to make a point. I don’t think it’ll make a dent, but I do think it’s important to say. A drop becomes two drops becomes a trickle.

  • lk

    “It behooves us to find our *collective* partners without adopting the oppressor’s tools, and without spreading hate, fear, intolerance, or idiocy.”

    What in this article spreads hate, fear, intolerance or idiocy?

    “Social pressure is a force. Could be a force for good, or one for bad.”

    What is good about pressuring lesbians into dating biological men?

  • lk

    “This is not a good social pressure. It’s the exact same social pressure that men use to guilt and shame women and lesbian women into sex that they don’t want.”

    I’m struggling to understand how it can be good for lesbians to feel like they need to have sex with men.

    How is that an example of good social pressure?

    This is the same old nonsense wrapped up in new packaging: That women don’t get to have sexual boundaries. That all women (regardless of sexual orientation, personal preference) must be sexually available to men.

  • Hekate Jayne

    No. A lesbian just told us that she isn’t a lesbian.

    Do try to keep up.

  • Hekate Jayne

    We know. You think that women can have lady dicks, vaginas absolutely do not matter (our entire reproductive system is just a social construct! But amazingly, every single human being ever was birthed from that social construct. Weird!), and dudes are way better at being women than women ever can be!

    Why do I have to validate the “womanhood” of transdudes? Isn’t it enough that they can now compete on our sports teams? Be naked in our locker rooms, even with little girls? Compete for scholarships that were supposed to be for girls?

    But now, lesbians are “cissexist” if they straight up refuse penis? This and several other examples are listed in the post above. Which you sound like you didn’t bother reading in your excited fervor to defend the ladydudes.

    Let me ask you something. Do you ever read? Anything ever? Have you ever done a Google to see what males have been doing, just in our bathrooms?
    Why don’t you have yourself a looksie. Because you are defending dudes like this one…….. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/7d48d2f9d4c032e8f3e6a9364fe75b4dabb4cb97a793617e0c18a05a5f2795df.png

    And he is just one of many.

    So, as this progressively gets worse, as dudes get more and more violent, and as we get pushed further out of public life while males take things that women fought long and hard for you to have, I hope that whatever cookies that males are giving you are worth selling out your sisters, and disregarding the few advantages that we are attempting to cling to.

    But I have taken up too much of your time. You have males waiting for you to validate their “womanhood”. You should get back to that. While we keep working for the lesser important women.

  • lk

    “What does feminism have to gain by shitting on trans-women?”

    What specifically in this article was shitting on transwomen?

    A lesbian by definition is a woman who is attracted to women.

    A transwoman is a biological male.

    “Woman-hood is so much more than biology, feminism has spent the last 30 years fighting for that.”
    Feminism has never denied the reality of female biology. What feminism has and continues to challenge is that our biology somehow makes us less than human, that being female=less worth, value, capability than male.

    “And also, i’m curious, If vagina=woman then would a post-op trans-women (with a vagina) Still be a “man in a dress”?”

    A post-op transwoman is still a biological male…He does not have a vagina, he has a surgical wound that has to be dilated regularly to remain open.

    Only women have vaginas-that is not a matter of high-school or middle school biology…that is observable, objective fact.

    • Krayal

      It was probably the bit where the author kept trying to imply that all trans women are rapists.

      • Meghan Murphy

        If she’d simply said ‘men’, would you say the same thing? That she is implying all men are rapists?

  • Hanakai

    You have been misinformed and apparently are ignorant of biology, genetics, neuroscience and neuroanatomy. Nature makes one a male or female at conception by the chromosomes from the parents: XX makes a female; XY makes a male.

    At birth, the brains of girls and boys are the same. This myth of laydeebrains is pure nonsense propounded by ignorant poseurs. The reality is that neuroanatomy and neurochemistry are the same in males and females: both have amygdalas, cortexes, brain stems, medullas, cortices, axons, dendrites, neurons, neurotransmitters, endorphins, enkephalins, receptor sites, synapses, PEA, GABA, etc.

    You really should not spread falsehoods and absurdities. It is bad karma and will come back to bite you. Do some reading, educate your mind. Neurology is difficult, but very interesting. As to how surgery creates a fake vagina in a man, it is rather a graphic procedure and one that often has complications. One would have to be seriously mentally ill to even contemplate having such a mutilation done.

  • Hanakai

    This is so. The presently-practicing clinical psychologists I know say they are all of a sudden now in recent history seeing all sorts of disturbed teens claiming to be trans, teens who never in childhood spoke of being the other sex. For some teens it is kind of the “in” thing to get attention and a way to really upset the parental units. All the trans propaganda and media coverage normalizing transsexuality have influenced the minds of vulnerable young. Many of them will be rendered permanently sterile when administered puberty blockers, a lot of damage will be done before they grow out of adolescent narcissism or have their minds healed.

    This happened also with anorexia. The more publicity, the more anorexia. Interestingly, anorexia, a supposed disease, only occurs in countries where people ingest excess calories, the rich First World Nations. In most of the world the “disease” of anorexia is unknown.

  • Stroke_Your_Own_Ego

    I have been reading this site for the past two months or so, and I think it’s time for me to express how thankful I am that there are brave, incisive individuals in the world who are standing up to the thought police.

    Here’s the short version of my story:

    This site has helped me to finally end my irrational feelings of guilt about being a lesbian woman, about not having an ”””””””inclusive”””””””” identity. And it’s helped me to move on from the heartbreak of losing
    one of my oldest friends, who now considers me to be a transphobic bigot who’s not worth her time. Before I found this site, and others like it, I felt completely alone in my beliefs, estranged from all other “queer people.” Thank you thank you for putting this content out there.

    Here’s the very long version:

    I’m a young millennial who has only recently come out the other end of a queer conformity meat grinder that started early in high school and continued halfway through college. My friend went through this same meat
    grinder, but was ground at a different rate. She used to identify as a lesbian (I think she was always bi) until she went to an East Coast college and met a trans man who she has since married (her first relationship). I made the mistake of mentioning to her and her trans boyfriend that I think it’s coercive to insist that lesbians should wantto sleep with trans women. I thought they’d agree with me, I thought that the extremism hadn’t touched them.

    I was wrong. The boyfriend’s anger went from 0 to 11 in in a heartbeat and he acted as though I was stabbing him and everyone that he loved and spitting on their corpses. My friend agreed with him at every turn, though she let him do most of the talking. I had to spend the next two hours or so defending my stance and explaining to them all the multitude of ways that no, no, no, I don’t actually despise/and or/want to cause violence to trans people but my own personal sexual experiences (which don’t hold much weight apparently) make me really question the idea of gender-not-sex based sexual attraction. But he would not go off the

    The thing is, at this point I was still mostly swallowing the queer identity rhetoric. I believed that trans women have always been women, that identity is all-important, I just wanted the “inclusive sexuality” jargon to stop. But because of this one transgression, they pegged me as a bigot.

    Sadly, they wore me down at the end. I started crying. I apologized to the ends of the Earth, I explained my uncomfortable sexual experiences, trying to justify my “bigoted” perspective. In the end I broke down and promised that I would be open to dating trans women again. And the whole time my friend and her boyfriend took on this wounded, noble victim persona.

    It was absolutely awful.

    Here’s a little background:

    Only a handful of years ago, if you’d asked me how I “identify” I’d have told you that I was pansexual and agender. My ideas of “fluidity” and “pan inclusiveness” held up for as long as I remained a late blooming,
    shy, perpetually single teenager. However, when I caved to the social pressures instructing me to lose my virginity quick, I turned to the online world, already by that time aware that while I believed whole heartedly in “love transcends gender,” I really only wanted sex with women. But my definition of woman was still more “inclusive.”

    Not for much longer.

    The first girl who offered to hookup mentioned the fact that they were a trans woman after a few back and forth texts. They didn’t seem like they would scold me for refusing—they weren’t being coercive.

    No, instead I saw it as my noble SJW duty to coerce myself.

    I ignored the little voice deep in my gut saying “no no no no” because I sincerely believed that I would be transphobic if I said no to this person. So that was my first sexual experience. I immediately called my friends, trying to understand why it felt so wrong, and they told me that it’s “normal to have a bad first sexual experience.” I accepted that explanation. And then I did it again. The second (and third) girls who offered to hook up online (OK Cupid) also turned out to be trans women. For the second time I ignored the voice in my gut saying “NO NO PLEASE NO.” And I hooked up again. After that encounter, I felt so nauseous and freaked out that I vowed never to do that to myself again. I admitted to something unholy: I don’t like penises.

    All of this I told my friend when she put me on trial. I described it in much more explicit detail than what I’ve put here. And my friend told me that all of my feelings of discomfort are a result of my learned transphobia. She parroted words in a voice that sounded like someone else’s cadence, as if she were incapable of using her own words to make an argument. I felt like I never knew who she really was. I went belly up and recounted my honest experiences, and she came back at me with unmovable political talking points. She told me that I “wounded” her and “wounded” her trans boyfriend by calling myself a lesbian who only dated “cis women.”

    What’s sad is that she really made me feel guilty. For close to a year afterwards, I would replay the conversations in my head and I would feel guilty. I would think about the fact that the trans boyfriend was rejected by his family, and I’d wonder if I was as bad as them for making him so upset. I had endless irrational thoughts, drawing parallels between my desire for other women and some form of violent bigotry. It didn’t help that when I tried to find other people who disagreed with my friend, all I could find were right-wing people who thought trans people were nasty. I cringed at that rhetoric. I’m very opposed to right-wing politics, and I refused (and still refuse) to stop caring about trans people as individuals.

    Still, I continued to question every part of my queer conditioning, having epiphany after epiphany about the stunting effect that the LGBTQ thought tank had on my development as a person. I came to bitterly resent the fact that the queer community did nothing to help me feel proud of myself as a gay woman—instead it convinced me for a time that I was neither gay nor a woman. But I felt virtually alone in my resentment, because I felt that there was no community for me anymore. I fell in with non-political straight people because at least they didn’t have massive egos and a cult mentality. Needless to say, the straight people’s eyes would pop when I’d tell them this story. They’re not used to being told that their sexuality is morally or politically incorrect (by one dogmatic thought tank or another), like lesbians are.

    When I found this site, I realized that there is a community for people who think like me. Finally, meaningful feminism.

    • Meghan Murphy

      I’m so, so sorry to hear about your experiences. That young women are doing this to one another is just horrifying. I’m so glad you’ve come out the other end, though I can only imagine how much you are still dealing with, now. We’re with you, sister xx

      • Stroke_Your_Own_Ego

        Thank you 🙂 I just wish I knew how to find like minded people in my offline life. I went to a “queer” party last night, filled with 20 somethings, and it was a pretty typical atmosphere. The male/female bathroom signs were covered up with signs that said “no gender policing.” I looked around and wondered if any of the people were second wave feminists who were too afraid to express their view. If we exist in that community, we’re sadly not doing a good job of finding each other.

    • Cassandra

      I was sick at my stomach reading this. I cannot believe the rape-y homophobia being perpetrated in the name of “inclusiveness.” It is the opposite of progressive. I’m not lesbian myself but I will defend to the end of the earth women’s right to say “no” to anybody. There should not be any string attached either…this “well of course you’re allowed to say no but you’re a bigot” is disgusting. Welcome to one of the few spaces that sees that the emporer’s new clothes aren’t new at all.

      • Hekate Jayne

        I just can’t understand why or how I owe a dude an explanation for not wanting to fuck him. Or how I owe an explanation to ANYBODY for who I do or don’t fuck.

        And now, women have to explain why they won’t CONSIDER sex with dudes/a dude?

        This is some major misogynist bullshit. And women are participating. What the fuck is even happening.

        • ptittle

          Oh, but you must explain when you’re the exception. Didn’t you know that every woman WANTS to fuck every man?

          (Not to mention, of course, that every man is ENTITLED to every woman.)

    • Hekate Jayne

      I am glad that you are here.

      And I am like Meghan, I can’t believe that young women are agreeing with males that we owe them sex.

      I wish no ill on Trans that are sane and harmless. I feel badly for anyone that feels trapped in the wrong body.

      But I absolutely wish ill on the trans that rape, kill, beat, and coerce us. And they are legion.

      I also don’t owe them anything but very basic kindness, until I don’t. I don’t respond well to males making demands of me.

      Thanks for posting. I look forward to hearing more from you.

      • Krayal

        “I absolutely wish ill on the trans that rape, kill, beat, and coerce us. And they are legion.”

        Citation needed.

    • Hanakai

      Bummer, this is very sad and it is sad that your elders failed in teaching you to pay attention to the signals of your body and the promptings of your own mind.

      Your so-called friends are mentally ill. Trans people are delusional and most of them suffer from a panoply of mental and personality disorders, including often Narcissistic Personality Disorder, Bipolar Disorder, Borderline Personality Disorder, etc. That is why the transpeople get irrationally angry over trivia and BS, why they are unable to have a rational conversation, why they are in denial of science and why they want everyone else to buy into their delusions. I have yet to encounter a mentally healthy sane person. Get rid of these people, get them out of your life and find some sane people as friends. There are many sane and normal happy lesbians, find some of them.

      Bad stuff happens in life, bad stuff has happened to you. What is there to do but look at it, find a way to laugh at it, and move forward in a better and happier way. Good for you that you have started listening to your own mind and common sense instead of the ravings of lunatics.

    • lk

      Thank you for sharing your story. I am sorry to hear you went through this, but hopefully things will get better for you.

      You are not a bigot, you are not responsible for the violence that face trans-identified people.

      Your sexuality does NOT have to be inclusive. You are allowed to have sexual boundaries.

      Feel no guilt whatsoever for being a lesbian, for wanting to only date or be sexually involved with women. You have nothing to feel guilty for!!!!!!!!!!!!

      You are under no ethical or moral obligation to have sex you don’t want to have..ever.

      Please know that you are welcome here. 🙂

    • linnet

      I weep for this generation of lesbians. Just existing in this world is trying, dangerous and scarring to most of us. Adding sexual coercion from not only men but WOMEN! Legions of handmaidens all battering down your inner voice that keeps saying “No. No. NO this is not right. I’m not attracted to the male body.” When will they wake up and realize they are intentionally and GLEEFULLY damaging young lesbians, guilting them into having sex they do not want, do not enjoy and feel sick and disgusted by. There is nothing wrong with being gay. Nothing.

    • sfonn08

      I am really sorry for your experiences. I am a younger lesbian too; I am 28. I have been single for a long time because most people my age have been brainwashed by the queer kool-aid. It’s difficult to find lesbians my age, especially because so many of them have been convinced that being a lesbian makes them a hateful bigot, so they call themselves “queer” or “pansexual”, maybe with a bonus snowflake gender identity too.

      I totally relate to the feelings of offline isolation. When I tried to voice a skeptical opinion of the trans trend to my brother, he flipped out on me, called me names, and tried to lecture me about “queer-inclusivity”. By the way, he is a
      mentally ill heterosexual man and kind of a stereotypical one at that (uses women like tissue paper, won’t use protection because it doesn’t feel good, turns into a crying mess whenever the inevitable pregnancy scare occurs.) He tends to get drunk/high and blame me, or mom, or dad for his self-inflicted misery. He had plenty of opportunity to seek help for his mental health problems and drug problems during the first 26 years of his life when he was on one of our parent’s insurance and he currently has a job with health insurance. He also liked to start bar fights with men who were allegedly homophobic after Trump was “elected” and then claim he was defending my honor. (The implication being of course, that I would “owe him” down the line and that I should be grateful for him picking fights with assholes I never met and probably never will meet and who I seriously doubt would know me since I was living in a different state at the time.)

      The truth is, I would never associate with my brother at all if we weren’t related and now I’m trying to limit contact with him. I don’t like him and the main reason I care at all about his well-being is because I like my parents most of the time and they would be sad if something bad happened to him due to his numerous self-destructive behaviors.

      My mom was more understanding when I tried to bring up trans wacktivists, but she prefers to believe that trans is the same as having an intersex medical condition and that the crazies are just a tiny minority. She tried to blame me using the internet for me being upset when the reality is that this occurs in real life and I haven’t been able to find a lesbian community where I live, in part because of queer/trans taking over everything. There’s a big issue where I live of straight women trying to troll lesbians or bisexuals for threesomes with their man. I think it’s related to the queer trend for sure, because nowadays “queer” basically means “straight, but with a preference for X”.

      It’s ridiculous. I shouldn’t be the only woman in online dating website who will admit that she only likes other women and who wants a real relationship with another woman who is a lesbian too.

      I’ve always had a good bs detector and I was fortunate enough that when I came out in high school the word “lesbian” meant what it was supposed to mean: a female homosexual, a female who only romantically loves other females, a female who only want to have sex with other females. No one believed that biological sex wasn’t real and if anyone suggested there was a such thing as a “female penis”, it would have been assumed that that person was
      spending too much time with the stoner kids and doing too much weed laced with LSD.

      The gay-straight alliance at school didn’t have any queer, questioning, or even much trans stuff going on. We did learn the usual line that “transsexual” meant being born in the wrong body and that they would
      go through extensive therapy to be sure that getting a so-called sex change was the right move. (Even so, the idea was still kind of silly to everyone.) I now know that this isn’t true and that there is pretty much no gatekeeping anymore. It’s now career suicide for medical professionals to say, “Hey, maybe we should deal with that untreated bipolar disorder before you start chugging cross-sex hormones.”

      There wasn’t anyone in high school GSA who thought they were trans and there wasn’t any pronoun policing or other gaslighting going on surrounding the issue. I didn’t understand what getting a sex change had to do with being a homo, but I figured that if grown adults wanted to pay for plastic surgery then they could have fun with that and go about their business.

      As for how my dad feels, I’m not even sure. He was making fun of Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner before, but I think he’s been gradually buying the liberal bs due to Trump’s ban on trans in the military.

      (And c’mon Democrats. It’s an obvious dig against you to get you to waste more time on identity politics, so that your average American who struggling with economic difficulties will continue to think you’re nuts and that you care more about fringe issues like letting men use the women’s restroom (which sane people don’t support) than helping parts of the country still in poverty/economic hardship. Hilary would rightfully be president if there were no electoral college, but your party would have still lost a ton of other offices!)

      I guess I wanted to say that you’re not alone in your struggles. I have also thrown my lot in with non-political or mildly liberal straight people because of the lack of huge egos and the fact that they don’t care that I’m a lesbian!

    • iamtanmay

      I am really sorry for your experience. You should never be coerced into sex, with a transperson, or whoever. I personally wouldn’t sleep with a transperson.

      Whoever coerced you, was wrong, period. You shouldn’t feel bad about it.

      But please don’t hate every transwoman for some buffoons. There are good and bad people in every gender, race, nationality and orientation.

      Chin up and be proud of who you are 🙂

  • Rich Garcia

    @amber12481632:disqus “Everything? How so, I’ve never felt authentic when I was presenting male. Now that I’ve let the true me be expressed, I’ve never felt more like myself.”

    Maleness isn’t some sort of presentation, but biological fact. A fact that got me bloodied and bruised when I walked out of a convenience store, because the two punks who attacked me were violent males I tried to reason with. It didn’t matter how these males presented themselves or how “authentic” they felt in their heads when they hit me in my face.

    “???Am I missing the memo about the trans agenda???”

    At this point it doesn’t matter anymore. Patriarchy, neoliberalism, transgenderism, or whatever the fuck people want to call it, the problem is maleness, agenda or no agenda. And no degree of altering your appearance and “feeling” a certain way is ever going to change the fact that you are male.

  • Hanakai

    Yes, this is part of the trans pathology that sick societies have bought into. Frankenmen and delusional FakeLadyMen want to compete with women and attempt to prove that fake women are better in every way than real women. Dudes wanting to compete as women. A pox on them. May they be reborn for 10 million lifetimes as intestinal bacteria.

  • Hanakai

    Get a brain, for crying out loud. There is no such thing as a transwoman. Those people are males, they have dicks, they have XY chromosomes and they are male in every cell of their bodies.

    Maleness and femaleness ARE determined by biology. Go back to school and take Biology 101 and stop with the insane idiocy that says men are women. They are not. I woudl also recommend counseling and mental health intervention for your delusional and paranoid thought patterns. Further, your inaccurate scatologial references make it seem that you got stuck at the anal stage of development. Get help.

  • Wren

    WTF are you saying?? I don’t care if you don leather or whatever the fuck you do, but if you have sex with someone with a PENIS you are NOT a lesbian. And if you pressure other women to have sex with anyone they don’t want to then you might as well be a fucking rapist. I’m done with you.

  • Hanakai

    When I wrote about this, anorexia was something of a new disorder and confined to basically the USA, Western Europe, Australia and did not occur in much of the world. More recent data indicates that the mental disease of anorexia appears in countries and cultures as they develop and start adopting or being influenced by cultures where female thinness is valued. Data shows that cultures which have been relatively immune to or isolated from the media-driven creation of the thin ideal body image for women, such as India and Fiji, had low rates of various eating disorders.

    Yes, anorexia is a mental illness, one that is created by the cult of thinness. Pathological cultures create pathological individuals. C’est la vie.

  • JingFei

    I think it’s because lately they’re pulling this shit on men, and the pushback has been quick and severe. So as usual, time to double down on women.

  • radwonka

    neuroscience has a very different view on gender-biology”

    the “woman brain” is an outdated theory though.

  • lk

    “It’s quite another that these lies are being pushed on little kids and teens by adults that young people should be able to trust (such as educators, LGBT activists, etc.).”

    It really bugs me when I see articles + videos by people whose words have power and influence (doctors, nurses, psychologists, teachers) telling kids about girl brains and boy brains…encouraging kids to take hormones and remove healthy breasts and penises.

    They KNOW this stuff is untrue. Anyone with basic medical knowledge understands that male and female are about biology…that there is no such thing as a boy trapped in a girl’s body and vice versa.

    When kids have questions, they go online and most stuff/people online is very pro-trans.

    If you go to most LGBTQ sites/videos or whatever..you’ll always see comments like this: I’m 12, 13, 14 guy and I think I’m trans because I love dresses and makeup. I’m not sure though..what should I do?
    Response: You’re obviously trans. There are ways you can get hormones without your parents knowing. And start looking into surgery..etc, etc..

    Why would you encourage a child to get drugs behind his parents back? Nobody even suggests that someone might just be a tomboy or a tomgirl. People will pressure and encourage these kids to think they are trans. TBH, I find it disturbing.

    I feel bad for these kids/teens…because they need love and support and guidance, they need to be taught to accept themselves as they are..

    It’s unfortunate that we are going to have a generation of people who think identity and feelings are all that matter…that facts are subjective.

  • Hekate Jayne

    That explains the profile pic.

    At a glance, it’s pretty good. Look closely, he’s all male, doing ladyface.

  • Just Passing Through

    I love how you use sir all the time with these guys. I need to start doing that too…enough dancing on eggshells around these narcissists!

  • Stroke_Your_Own_Ego

    I’m sorry it happened too, but sticking to my beliefs has ultimately left me feeling stronger in the long run and better equip to deal with and shut down emotional manipulation. I can seek out what I really want in a relationship with new passion and self-respect.

  • Meghan Murphy

    “When I was in high school, I would hyper-gender my moods, deciding that I felt male when I was angry, neutral when I was calm, female when I was compassionate. It never occured to me that my oh so deep soul searching was nothing more than a practice in regurgitating tired gender roles and applying them to my social performance. The queer cult taught me that womanhood was either a boring, shallow wedding cake decoration (when talking about “cis”/straight women) or a glowing ideal of bravery (for trans women only). If I didn’t revel in the idea of being a woman, and feel perfectly at home being a valley girl obsessed with fashion, then that could only mean I wasn’t really a woman.”

    Woah! So weird/effed up/revealing!

  • Alienigena

    I believe that JingFei is a medical student so I would trust her knowledge of human biology over yours. In addition, a physician scientist at Tulane University wants biologists to study sex differences (not gender, not the sexed brain) in humans and other animal systems that they study.

    “It’s not just a story of hormones. It’s more complicated than that,” he told us. Male and female creatures need to be studied as two separate biological systems.”

    As to neuroscience maybe you need to read some Cordelia Fine (Delusions of Gender, Testosterone Rex) because you obviously know nothing about the subject. I think you are the one promoting fake science.

    “Neurosexism promotes damaging, limiting, potentially self-fulfilling stereotypes. Three years ago, I discovered my son’s kindergarten teacher reading a book that claimed that his brain was incapable of forging the connection between emotion and language. And so I decided to write this book (Delusions of Gender).”


    That you focus on the fetus is also a problem. A good proportion of human brain development occurs outside the womb so parental behaviour, societal expectations and other factors play a significant role in shaping a child’s understanding of their abilities, propensities based on their biological sex.

  • Hekate Jayne

    Well, you are just wrong. And I could show you that you are. But I won’t waste my time, since we both know that facts don’t matter to you.

    You know, males kept us put of education, kept us from voting, etc. because they claimed that we had “ladybrain”.

    They were wrong then, just like you are wrong now. It was disproved long ago. But you dudes trot it out in an effort to prove yourselves superior. Can’t you think of something new or original? Really, retreading tired, old ground is kind of pathetic.

    In fact, you don’t really care about the concept of “ladybrain” at all. It’s just a tactic that misogynists like you use to attempt to keep women in servitude to you. We thought that you were pathetic when you made this up years ago.

    And now, it’s just sad and unoriginal, as well.

    Do kindly fuck off, dudebro. Unless you can do better. But we all know that you can’t, lol.

  • Morag999


  • Cassandra

    Yes, you are right. Considering my love of good meter this is quite ironic.

  • Omzig Online

    The biological differences begins well before the second month of pregnancy. It begins when sperm meets ovum. You father’s sperm either carried the Y chromosome or it didn’t, resulting in your sex. This isn’t a talking point, it’s a well understood fact. I would provide citations, but I think it’s pretty much common knowledge for those of us with a 5th grade level of education. Not sure what your comment was trying to prove. Are you suggesting that trans folks become trans in the womb during fetal developement?
    If you want to argue about specific scientific studies, or the field of neuroscience in general, by all means go for it. But don’t tout fake talking points and pretend that these studies don’t exist.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Like does my brain tell me I have a penis and testicles? No. But you are now talking about body dysmorphia/sex dysphoria. And ‘trans’ no longer is popularly defined based on a mental condition like sex (called gender) dysphoria. If it were, this conversation would be less complicated. Instead, what we are talking about is ‘gender’ and ‘gender identity’ which don’t appear to have anything to do with a mental condition. You yourself used the term ‘gender’, which is not sex. My gender doesn’t ‘align’ with my sex, by which I mean, I don’t feel comfortable with the gender imposed on me, based on my sex.

  • Meghan Murphy

    What does that mean? You brain tells you you are female how? Like, your brain says you should be able to give birth?

  • Noanodyne

    Great article. Well stated, well supported. You’ve exposed the ugly underpinnings of their “movement” and so brought out the pearl-clutching fun feminists and cool-girl queers, as well as the male-bodied people they work so hard to protect. They’re using every dishonest, gaslighting, ignorant, weaponized tactic we’ve come to know so well. They’re scared, it couldn’t be more obvious. The .01%ers with the loudest screeches are being exposed left and right – often all by themselves – and they know their facade really can’t withstand careful, long term scrutiny. Their cool-girl allies are about to age out of SJW outrage to get on with their mundane gender-stereotyped lives. Anyone directing attention at their bullshit is still going to be met with every kind of weapon they have, for the meantime. Good on you J.J. (and Meghan) for shining this bright hot spotlight on them and making them squirm and show themselves for who they are: Anti-women and particularly anti-lesbian. Thank you for taking a stand for lesbians.

  • Tweek Jones

    So you are a bio male. Transwomen are bio male as they’re trans. Otherwise they could not be trans.

  • Wren

    “Queer spaces are diseased, stagnant wells where blind, shriveled piranha swim around banging into walls, regularly swarming and devouring other piranhas who make small syntax errors while towing the party line”

    Dear lord, what an analogy.

    And this:
    “When I was in high school, I would hyper-gender my moods, deciding that I felt male when I was angry, neutral when I was calm, female when I was compassionate.”

    It’s so anti-human!! To think that any particular emotion is gendered and exclusive. It’s particularly heartbreaking to think that children and adolescents might ever entertain such nonsense.

  • Tweek Jones

    You are quite manipulative. Lesbians by definition are not sexually, romantically nor emotionally, attracted to transwomen as they’re bio male. So, lesbians aren’t interested in transwomen, at all, as our sexual attraction is to bio females only (female homosexuality=lesbian). By having this conversation you promote conversion and corrective rape of lesbians by definition.

  • FierceMild

    I think that’s normal for men anyway.

  • FierceMild

    Wait, I live there too. Maybe we’ve passed each other and could have waved!

    • Just Passing Through

      Wouldn’t it be nice to just be able to say! …but as we know, creepy creepers be a creepin on this site! It’s nice to know I’m not alone in the armpit of America.

    • Hekate Jayne

      I live there, too. Near the coast.

  • Cassandra

    There is no “sexual differentiation of the brain.”

  • Meghan Murphy

    I am talking about males claiming to be literally female, despite being male and having male bodies, demanding they be accepted as females, to the point where they expect lesbians to consider them as sexual partners.

  • Hekate Jayne

    “Ladybrain” was disproved the first time you males tried to use it to keep us from getting an education, voting, etc.

    Gender identity exists to keep women subservient to males. Males created it so that they could keep us as reproductive, sexual, domestic servants.

    And trans perpetuates it. You guys put on a dress, make up, high heels, and then say that it makes you a woman. It’s like you have never met a woman. Your idea of women comes straight out of the male brain, males demand that we be dainty, pretty, made up, quiet, giggley, submissive, etc.

    Women don’t act anything like trans. You guys do a characature of what you think a woman is. Pretending to be something doesn’t make you whatever you are pretending to be. Forcing women to bend to your will doesn’t change reality. It just makes you an asshole.

    • Amber12481632

      When did I say anything about putting on dress, make up, high heels, and then say that that makes me a woman, I never did. I do do that stuff but that doesn’t make me a women. I also wear jeans, a tee shirt and sneakers without makeup, and guess what I’m still a women when I do that.
      Saying that I believe all women are dainty, pretty, made up, quiet, giggley, submissive, etc. then I’m not following my own rules since I’m more of a tomboy. Women can be however they want.

      I’m a characature of a women, how? Maybe trans women are characatures of women because they want to be accepted as women and fall into the catch 22 of fitting to well our bit well enough into the “normal” female stereo type. But for me, I’m myself and I’m a women. I can wear anything and do anything, and guess what I’m still a women.

      “Forcing women to bend to your will doesn’t change reality. It just makes you an asshole.”
      It’s mostly people forcing trans people to bend to their will.
      Talking about a scientific study makes me an asshole, got it.

      And back to the brain thing, why can’t brains be gendered, the rest of our bodies are, why not the brain. It would make sense from a evolution standpoint (not in the way your thinking). You took it to mean women are inferior to men. It just means women and men are slightly different in another way, that’s it.

      • Minerva Conatus

        Brains cannot be gendered because gender is not a biological reality, it’s a social construct.

  • Hekate Jayne

    My brain tells me that you are an idiot.

  • FierceMild

    Well, I can’t say I think you’re wrong I can say my soft method only gets applied to people I think will actually profit from it.

  • FierceMild

    I hear you. The people I want to speak to and who I deeply want to make able to hear me (through methods including word choice) are young women. Particularly young lesbians. They’re not savvy enough yet to recognize when they’re bowing to the man, because they re young. And they’re at risk off sexual assault, pressure, and bodily mutilation springing from these ideas.

  • FierceMild

    Brains are biological, but your sex is determined by chromosomes which are expressions of genes. Every cell making up your brain bears a copy (actually 2 copies because human cells are diploid not haploid) of your DNA including your Y chromosome. That makes you male right in the brain.

    Female violence is not remotely the same as male-pattern violence. Denying this is not honest. Women don’t need shelters from one another.

    You say that women don’t have to deal with self-acceptance. That is one of the most tone-dead things I have ever heard. You think there’s a body positivity movement because women are so self-accepting? Anorexia? Bulimia? Shaving?
    Makeup? Push-up bras? Etc. etc etc. no. Dude, just think before you type.

    Also, stop talking about your dick in these comments.

    • Amber12481632

      Sex is determined not just by your chromosomes, most of the time it lines up with chromosomes but not always, but also the expression of chromosomes through hormones and other factors. Chromosomes are not the end all be all. Just having xy chromosomes doesn’t automatically make you male.

      Statistically male violence happens more often, I did say that, and tends to be more violent comparatively, didn’t say that, and when did I deny that. Do you accept trans women in women shelters? I’m guessing a bit here, but I’m assuming you don’t, and thus you do want women shelters from one another, cis and trans women…

      Ok, I think you missed the point on the acceptance part. Or I’m just bad at explaining it, which is very probably the possibility.
      Acceptance is a thing for everyone to live with, but it’s a little (actually ~35% higher suicide rate) bit more of an issue with trans people. What your talking about is how do I deal with acceptance of yourself, which trans people also deal with. What I’m talking about is the denial and lack of acceptance of trans people from society. We express ourselves and society in general will miss gender us and deny our identity (it’s getting better, though probably will get worse with the political climate). This type of lack of acceptance where people question and deny who you are is what trans people have to face that cis people don’t really have to deal with at all.

      I was talking about my genitals yes (for 3 whole sentences), but isn’t that the crux of the argument on why trans women aren’t women. I was just trying to give some perspective from a trans women about the topic that these comments are under.

  • Hekate Jayne

    No one owes you an explanation of why they won’t date you.

    I can make a pretty good guess about why most women wouldn’t date a trans, though.

    Because delusional males tend to be dangerous. Trans, as a group, won’t honor the boundaries of women. Trans, just like all males, are selfish and self centered, and only care about their own wants.

    You also commit violent offenses at the same rate as all other dick havers. There are a ton of websites devoted to covering the violence of trans, especially when they are violent in women’s spaces. The fact that you all lie about it and say that it never happens is another reason that most women would avoid you.

    And since I know that you can’t grasp this, I will go ahead and say it. Lesbians don’t get involved with males. And you are male.

    I like my males to be honest, trustworthy, respectful, and safe. Dudes that demand to be in our spaces and deny reality and then become upset that I won’t deny reality, too, are none of those things.

    This entitlement attitude that males have is also really annoying. Males think that they are owed female time, attention, emotional labor, it’s a never ending list.

    Trans are exhausting, dude. Just tiring. But I think that you know all of this and you just don’t care. Because only your feelings matter.

  • Hekate Jayne

    So all women like the same activities? Desire the same things? Like the same things?

    We aren’t a fucking monolith.

    Have you met more than one woman?

    You have no idea how insulting this is to women, mostly because you don’t see us as human, you see us as an identity that you can parade around as.

    I can assure you that you are in no way aligned with women, intellectually or otherwise. Unfortunately, you lack the empathy and basic intelligence to understand that.

  • Cassandra

    What is a female?

  • Meghan Murphy

    I understand that this is what you want. And I hope you do find a relationship with someone who accepts you as you are. But let’s move this conversation away from you, as an individual, because it doesn’t really address what we are talking about, for the most part: the vast majority of those who identify as transwomen do not have female bodies. They have male bodies. There are self-identified transwomen with penises, expecting lesbians to accept ‘penis = female’ and consider sexual relationships with them. Because of a ‘feeling’ inside them or simply because of a stated identification. It’s not ok. In fact, it’s ridiculous.

    • Amber12481632

      Everyone has the right to not want sex with anyone for any reason, I started that in some other post of mine. So I agree with you there.

      The science is leaning toward the fact that being trans is a real condition. (Actually finally accepted by the majority of the medical community) So it’s a mind vs body thing, and mind wins because being trans is finally no longer considered a disorder and instead a part of who we are. (Initial findings have shown that there is a genetic part to being trans.)

      Ok, if you don’t want to date someone because they have a penis then that’s fine.
      But I just want you to at least think of why you are attracted to different people?
      Is it because they have certain genital parts? Probably not, but that can play a role when things get more intimate.
      You probably look at their outward appearance, their personality, their interests, and/or some other quality.

      Open mindedness and empathy is all we ask for.

      And thanks for *caring* about my well being.

      PS: who ever said I was a lesbian. I’m more of a demisexual with masculine attraction. So I could date a cis/trans female, a trans/cis male, a non-binary person or a gender variant one, as long as I have an emotional connection to them in an intimate way.

      • Meghan Murphy

        Yes, GENDER DYSPHORIA is treated as a ‘real condition.’ But literally changing from male to female is not.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Female isn’t a gender identity….

    • Rich Garcia

      @meghan_murphy:disqus You know, it’s not anyone’s prerogative to indulge an Internet troll who is obviously a male tell all of us that he’s female. These men are mentally ill, and there is no harm in saying this.

  • Rich Garcia

    @amber12481632:disqus You are a man because you are a biological male who I am assuming is an adult. You’re not female because you don’t possess a pair of X chromosomes. And sex chromosomes are determined genetically. If you have a Y chromosome you’re male.

    Also, brains are not “gendered”, since you can’t even define what it means to be male or female outside your hokey theory that it’s all in our heads. How can your brain tell you you’re “psychologically” of the opposite sex if you have none of the anatomical characteristics that make women what they are? Again, you’re appealing to the idea that people act the way they do because of psychology. And testosterone is a prime factor in male violence, aggression, and impulsiveness.

    The fact that you’re getting bent out of shape because I’m saying that males have an inherent propensity for violence only proves your maleness, since no man who thinks he’s a woman (whatever that means) would take issue with this fact. The only gendered hierarchy that exists is between masculinity and femininity.

    And I’m not “cis”, because I don’t exist in relation to people like you who are a minority. I’m just a man, an adult human male. Nothing more, nothing less. And YOU are a man, so own it and deal with it, or stop replying to me..

  • Meghan Murphy

    There is no such thing as innate gender.

  • Hekate Jayne

    Ok, so before I fall into the trap of posting a million links because you are too lazy or inept to google, Google Donna Perry.

    Google Donna perry, and let’s talk about him. And if you do that, then I will provide you a thousand links that you will proceed to ignore and not respond to, because facts upset you guys.

    And I am totally entitled to state facts. I’m entitled to call a male, a male.

    You, as a male, can colonize us. I obviously can’t stop you. But I won’t indulge in your fetish.

    No one is denying your existence. You obviously exist.

    As a dude.

  • Meghan Murphy

    People are not born stereotypes. We are not born either ‘masculine’ or ‘feminine.’ We are born female or male, then our personalities develop and we are socialized into gendered roles.

    • Amber12481632

      That’s not proof.
      And stereotypes at birth? Didn’t say that, I said an innate sense of gender, not gender roles or stereotypes.

      Here is a paper that shows their is a biological component to being trans. (More research is needed but it is a start)

      • Meghan Murphy

        Gender *is* gender roles or stereotypes. If you believe people are walking stereotypes then you’re in the wrong century. I would recommend checking out Rebecca Jordan-Young and Cordelia Fine’s work to learn more about the ‘gendered’ brain.

  • Meghan Murphy

    It is not reasonable to state that trans people, as they are understood in Western, patriarchal society have ‘always existed,’ because gender, as we know it, is not universal. Not every society ever has had these patriarchal, sexist gender roles.

  • Meghan Murphy

    They are still a girl. Just a girl with gender dysphoria or body dysmorphia OR a girl who doesn’t feel she ‘fits’ within feminine stereotypes.

  • Hekate Jayne

    This is a page of links to various news stories, all of Trans violence and perversion. ….


    Btw, Donna perry killed women. You may blow that off as nothing, but we don’t. Also, he wants to be housed in a female prison.

    He killed women because they could reproduce and he could not. And now, he will be housed with women.

    Again. The fact that you downplay the murder of women by one of your own is chilling. Seriously.

    How many women have to be murdered by you males? And your laws allow you to be in our private spaces. But he just killed a few women. Right?

    Anyway. Lady dude taking pics of women in bathroom. ….


    Dude in ladies room asks little girl to pull down her pants

    I can go all night.

    But how about you do a Google and have a look at the hundreds (quickly going to thousands) of stories of males perving on us in bathrooms and locker rooms.

    Every mainstream news site has them. These aren’t right wing or feminist sites. Although, those sites report tons of these stories, too.

    And have a look here….


    And look at how ladymen are committing violent crimes against women, and being recorded as women because they just feel like ladies.

    The single biggest indicator of a person committing violent crime is being born with a penis. Males commit well over 90% of violence according to many sources.

    All of this male violence being perpetrated in our private spaces is all over the Internet. All you have to do is look.

    But you all are the same. We spend time showing you, knowing that you can easily see all of this yourself. You just don’t want to.

    And you will discount a million different ways. The same way you blow off Donna perry, and the women that she murdered, and the women that she will be living with because of your demands, you guys blow off every single case. I could list hundreds, and you won’t care.

    Because you don’t care about our safety or that we are afraid of dudes. Like this one…….. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/7d48d2f9d4c032e8f3e6a9364fe75b4dabb4cb97a793617e0c18a05a5f2795df.png

    Btw, no woman discounts these multitudes of incidents. Women understand each other’s fear of males.

    Except for dudes in dresses. You discount our feelings, our concerns, our safety. Your gender feels trump our safety every time.

  • Hekate Jayne

    Here’s a bonus of 25 transdudes assaulting women. …


    The one that knocked out the woman’s teeth is especially interesting, huh?

  • lk

    I PROMISE that there are other women your age who feel the same way you do, they probably just feel afraid to speak up!!!

    It’s interesting that gay men have kind of been insulated from all this..i.e., there doesnt seem to be this rush of FTM’S invading their spaces…nor does there seem to be much pressure on gay men to date biological women. To some extent, straight men as well…it really seems to only be women are being bullied into accepting men into female-only spaces and accepting men into our love lives, even if they are lesbian.

    One thing you might try doing is volunteering with an organization that is women focused…like a woman’s shelter or something…I feel like women who are involved in these kinds of organizations don’t seem to buy into trans-ideology.

    • Stroke_Your_Own_Ego

      There are some FTM people who commit themselves to trying to bully gay males online into “opening up” to sex with them (the boyfriend who grilled me claims to do so) but that crusade has had little to no effect on the gay man community. My gay male friend smirks at the idea. Gay men get the authority to have conviction and a steadfast identity. Their words hold weight and their feelings are valued. Unlike lesbian women. Or women in general. The Queer Party is readily taking advantage of women’s conditioning under patriarchy. It’s too easy for us to embody the role of the selfless nurturer, willing to bend to the will of others, to give up on our individual opinions.

      That’s a good idea. It certainly makes sense that people who volunteer for women’s spaces would value women’s spaces. I can search for something in my area. Thank you!

    • ptittle

      Yeah, funny thing that, eh? FtMs don’t seem to be screaming about, well, anything…

  • lk

    So there is a universal ladybrain, ladysmell, lady soul, lady essence…but there is no such thing as female biology.

    The thing that gets me about that video is that he does not want to go into the men’s room b/c he knows men get violent…why can’t he understand why women wouldn’t want a man in the women’s room?

  • lk

    How does someone’s mind match up with someone’s genitals?
    A man can like feminine things, feel more comfortable with females, and dislike his male genitalia…none of these things make him into a woman.

  • Krayal

    I mean…. I don’t know where you live that trans people are treated amazingly, because I need to tell my trans friends. In our neck of the woods they’re on the lowest rung, in every corner of society. I mean this in the nicest possible way – do you think you might be imagining some of this?

    • Meghan Murphy

      Maybe you should get out more. Women and girls are treated like shit in most places on this planet.

  • Krayal

    Do you know that she is trans? Or are you just assuming that the only reason for having a shred of empathy must be commonality?

  • Krayal

    Saying “Be nice to trans people” is not the same as fucking rape either though. And saying so is pretty fucking insulting to rape victims.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Some day there will have to be some kind of FC get together… I’ve had a number of requests for such thing.

  • Meghan Murphy

    What are you saying?

  • Meghan Murphy

    Reimer’s situation, according to what you are saying, is that he was a Canadian man born biologically male but raised as a girl following medical advice and intervention after his penis was accidentally destroyed during a botched circumcision in infancy.

    I don’t insist he is a girl, so I don’t know what you’re talking about.

    That said, his situation is very different from those who claim to be trans.

  • radwonka

    I know Im a female because I have a female body, simple. I’m sure there are tons of articles explaining the differences between males and females on the internet to help you.
    And fuck you for erasing that fact, you don’t get to tell me that I might be “agender” just because I don’t believe in spiritualism.

    I don’t have a “gender identity”, period. I’m sure that someone like you who loves to defend undefined feelings, would never tell me that “my” feelings are wrong (because if you do, then you are contradictory —again—). ¯_(ツ)_/¯

    It’s interesting though that your ideology says that everyone has the right to choose their identity, yet when people refuse to use that “gender identity” crap, you still force labels (cis/trans/whatever) on others… When people use scientific definitions, you and your friends get mad… It’s as if we dont really have the right to define our environement huh…

    There is a concept that is enough to describe people: personality. You need to understand that many people don’t need unscientific (and conservative) labels to describe their personality.

    “neither can you define feelings”
    Why should I define “feelings” when you are the one who claims to have a “female feeling”?
    But in your case, from what I’ve seen, feeling/instinct just means “something that can’t be measured/explained”. Like what’s point of this? You didn’t give an example, and can’t even explain yourself.
    If your brain tells you that you are female, then your brain should also explain what “female” means, but you don’t even know what your brain means exactly. lol. So you are either intellectually lazy or dishonest. Thus, your “instinct” is BS.

    Anyways… Feelings don’t change reality. You can be angry/sad/stubborn/etc, but some things can’t be changed. That’s how life works; That’s why scientists don’t use words that can’t even be defined: something that can’t be defined, can’t be measured either.

    Female: http://www.dictionary.com/browse/female

    Also, you say that you didn’t talk about gender stereotypes, yet in your link, here is what I read: ”

    « le comportement de l’enfant est si clairement celui d’une petite
    fille active et si différent du comportement masculin de son frère
    jumeau. »

    In other words, that child was considered a girl because he had a “girly behavior” (and his brother was seen as a boy because he had a “masculine behavior”) . Is this what you call “innate gender identity”? Labelling children and teaching them to gender (girly or masculine) their behavior and personality? We have the obligation to put our personality in boxes that are defined by the feminine//masculine stereotypes? Wow, how deep, very original…

    If anything, your link proved that gender identity is a concept that relies on stereotypes, and the worst is that culture, socialization and social norms are obviously not mentioned. So your ideology is also essentialist.
    The link explained that If a boy has a “girly behavior” then he must a girl: which means that the people who theorized about gender identity do think that there is a “girly brain” and a “masculine brain”. That’s not conservative at all right? lmao.

    And what’s the point of gendering people’s personality and denying the influence of culture? The people in the link didn’t bother explaining that…

    You refused to define gender identity/feeling/females, but the link explained your position quite clearly, and contraty to what you said, stereotypes were used to prove the “existence” of the “female brain”.

    So stop being dishonest.

    “Calling me an it, very “nice” of you.”

    Well, you are the one who erased females just because you have a “feeling”. feeling that you can’t even define, feeling that rely on stereotypes (at least, in your link), so I’ve no sympathy for you.

  • Meghan Murphy

    I didn’t read the link, you’re right. I answered your statement, “how about this person who was socialized as a girl, but really knew they were a boy?” My mistake. I’ve just been skimming your comments in order to moderate them.

  • Meghan Murphy

    This is a good question. FierceMild is right that I don’t have the time or resources to organize such a thing or moderate a pm function/another forum… But I definitely think meeting in real life is key, in terms of organizing and this movement. I’m at WoLF Fest right now! Any of you here? 🙂

    Perhaps some day we could plan some kind of FC event or festival.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Transwomen are not at more risk for violence than women, no.

  • Stroke_Your_Own_Ego

    What about this article is not treating trans people like human beings?

    Here is how I believe it’s fair to treat human beings:

    I owe every person respect. I owe them common courtesy, and a right to never feel threatened in my presence. I do not, under any circumstances owe them access to my body, to my bed, to my private spaces.

    I treat trans people just like I treat everyone else. So there should be no problem. You should have no trouble with this article either, because it’s all a matter of humans reminding other humans to respect the sexual boundaries of humans.

    Again, WHAT about this article is not treating trans people as humans? The queer movement is the one equating sexuality with humanity. They argue that if I do not include trans women in my sex life, that I am dehumanizing trans women. They argue that sexual access to MY BODY is necessary for trans women to feel validated as humans. That’s dehumanizing, ironically.

    No one here is arguing that trans people be treated less than human. Humans are obliged to respect the sexual boundaries of other humans, like it or not. If you want to complain to someone for dehumanizing trans people, then go to tumblr and yell at the “trans allies” for treating trans people like they’re fragile flowers who will wither away unless everyone they fancy instantly becomes sexually available to them.

    • iamtanmay

      I agree with you 100%

      Your body, your life, your identity, its upto you to decide.

      But the people here, are in fact demeaning transwomen with a broad brush, calling them men in drag, rapists, murderers and worse.

      To be honest, its not that the people here hate transwomen. They hate men period. And they are happy to take that out on transwomen.

      I absolutely agree that we should respect transwomen as human beings, and that doesn’t mean to have sex with them.

      But if they identify as women, its their right. Its their life, body and identity, just like yours.

      To villify them as rapists and murderers. Ironically just like lesbians themselves were villified for decades.

      You would think they of all people would understand.

  • lk

    My thinking is fine, thank you.

    Disliking one’s genitals does not prove anything. Being uncomfortable with a body does not mean one is in the wrong body.

    Reputable science has shown again and again that at birth male/female brains are basically identical.

    Gender is nothing but stereotypes…no one is born with a sense of femininity or a sense of masculinity. It is impossible to discuss gender without discuss social views of what it means to be feminine or masculine.

  • Kati

    And the manly outrage included absolutely no acknowledgement that lesbians have put up with this shit for years.

  • Kati

    That’s the best insult for them. Mediocre. Because they’re so desperate to be thought of as special, wonderful etc. But they aren’t. They’re identical factory issue dipshits without an original thought among them.

  • Kati

    Yes that’s the crux of the problem. They don’t grasp it.

  • Kati

    I know, it’s a major problem and it will undoubtedly be taken advantage of more in future. We are telling our young girls they can’t have boundaries.

  • Kati

    She knows what the term means dude. She’s asking what it really means, what is the rationale.

  • Kati

    Why does it get better? Because gender dysphoria is a mental illness and it helps some people to live as the opposite sex. It doesn’t mean they are the opposite sex. And they can’t expect to be accepted as the opposite sex although people will try to be compassionate to a point. But not to the point where they’ll completely fuck themselves over to prop up a lie. Not on this site, anyway. There are plenty of other “feminist” sites you can try.

  • Meghan Murphy

    If you and/or others want to get in touch, please send me an email, and I can forward it on. Thanks!

    • lk

      I just sent my email to you as well, if anyone is interested.

  • Velaseri

    “Transwomen are more likely to be raped and murdered than natal women” not according to all global statistical data, they aren’t.

  • Cassandra

    I have no idea what you just said and I don’t think you do either.

  • Cassandra

    What is a female?

  • Amber12481632

    Rates of intersex conditions are more common than you realise.

  • Cassandra

    How about heterosexual females? 😉

  • meh

    How many more wannabe defenders of aggressive men in dresses attacking women’s human rights are going to be shot down in flames every time they troll here?

    All of them.

  • meh

    And stop altogether repeating ludicrous and easily discounted lies. Trannies are NOT more at risk than women from male violence or indeed female violence.

    Women – which only ever means biological women the half of the species born with female chromosomes – are and always have been assaulted and murdered at grotesque rates by men. Men sometimes rape and beat other men too but in nowhere NEAR the same numbers.

    But you already know this

    And yes we are factually aware that sometimes men in dresses rape and beat women and girls too. Putting a dress on and/or slicing off your dick doesn’t change your violent tendencies towards women. Men who enjoyed assaulting women when they wore trousers enjoy it equally when wearing a dress.

    You don’t get to lie about such facts here.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Yes! The contact form comes to me, so I can forward along your email to the other women who’ve reached out to get in touch.

  • Erica Cook

    Actually they have the highest risk of being raped and killed of any group. But yeah, that doesn’t go with what you believe, so just ignore it. Each year the number of transgender people killed for being transgender goes up. It’s broken the record every hear for about 5 years now. And more than half of transgender women have been threatened or raped while being forced to use the men’s room. Again, I know you’ll just pretend that’s not true.

    • Meghan Murphy

      Where on earth are you getting these statistics?

  • Blake Gale

    I am transgender and I can understand this. I hate it when people get so angry at TERFs. I don’t give a damn. But also for transwomen who have had surgery and pass as women, I think that it is kinda transphobic, and you are also missing out on an opportunity to have biological children with your partner. I might just not get it because I am bisexual (more attracted to masculinity though). It doesn’t matter anyway because of my libertarian values

    • northernTNT

      The lopping off of the penis does not change the sex.

    • sfonn08

      If you can have biological children with your partner, then congratulations! You’re a straight couple, not a lesbian couple.

  • ptittle

    Would upvote this a hundred times if I could.

  • ptittle

    I am so glad that even though half the clothes I wear are or could be men’s clothes, and even though I don’t wear make-up or jewelry, and even though I don’t have breasts anymore, when I go into the women’s restroom, the other women don’t kill me. They don’t even beat me up.

  • S. Richard

    Transgender persons in the US represent only .06% of our population and women represent at least 50% . So please let’s keep things in perspective. Women are exposed to rape, assaults, abuse, denigration, trafficking, torture, slavery and murder. Women do not choose their sex, we are just born women, and as a woman cannot escape these statistics. Given all these transgressions against us, we are also often blamed, questioned or not believed in our plight. Men who voluntarily choose to participate in a sexual change to a woman might want to do a little more research of their possible plight and take everything into consideration before moving forward. Don’t forget the people assaulting you are not the lesbian women who have been identified as the most monogamous, peaceful sexual orientation in the US. Let’s just cut the women in the Us a break just for once. Transgender women must know that if you have a penis then US straight men are not going to want you, and many will assault you if you try to be intimate with them without disclosing. Fact. And if you do tell them, they don’t want you and why should they. They want to get married, fall in love, have children, buy a home and be financially successful. They don’t want to deal with either your baggage or societies baggage about you. It’s not worth the hassles for them. Where are their rewards, when there are so many eligible women that are anxious to date them if they are worthwhile. Don’t tell me that transgenders never knew this, just know the american male and society. Have their brains been in the closet along with their sexual identity?Choosing a sex change could be choosing to be alone. Fact. Wake up to a little dose of reality. We can’t expect other people to make exceptions for us. That’s just not going to happen. Not in society today.

  • S. Richard

    You were very brave to tell your story after all you have been through. Hold your ground and stay brave. What you have experienced is really a hijacking from the radical left which has been happening for about the past 8 years. The left pretends to want to spread love and peace, but that is all bull shit. The left wants to control the narrative and if anyone disagrees with them, they will both verbally and physically try to put them down and shut them down. The left controls the news media and the left over democrats and globalists. They riot , they do not demonstrate. The beat people, assault them, ridicule them and feel that their voice is the only voice. The break, burn, loot, throw urine, feces, mace and sticks. Berkeley’s left created 300,000 dollars of destruction in one night over a young gay speaker from england who had been scheduled to speak on their campus to a conservative group of students. Free speech is free speech. The left doesn’t get to decide the narrative antifa. The transgenders rights are supported by this group. These groups are financed and will continue to dictate the narrative as anyone opposing them are so in fear of losing their jobs, careers, credibility for expressing an alternate opinion to them. Regroup and stand your ground. Eventually real americans will see their stripes and give up their fear. It will be a long time however, as this has been coming to divide us and promote chaos and division in this country or a long time. May you find love and peace and keep true to yourself.

  • Molly

    Wow. This is an awesome post. Very poetic. I have one question though. How is gender a social construct? Gender is the same thing as sex. A man is a male who has reached adulthood. A woman is a female who has reached adulthood. The reason we use those words is to specify the age of the person we are talking about, to distinguish between men and boys/women and girls. Gender ROLES, the prescription of how a man and woman ought to be and behave, that’s socially constructed. But gender itself isn’t. You are a woman if you are female, no matter how you feel, act or what you wear. You are man if you are male, no matter how you feel, act and what you wear. These days that’s radical thinking apparently.

    • iamtanmay

      Right, and I agree with you.

      Lets be clear, nobody should be forced to have sex with someone they don’t want to, trans or not.

      But identity is also something as integral as sex, yes ?

      A lesbian’s identity, is something inherent, you would agree ?

      But a person who feels their identity is a woman, is not inherent ? Why ?

      A lesbian knows she is a lesbian. Its how she wants to live life. We don’t analyse her, we accept her.

      A person knows she is a woman, and its how she wants to live life. Why is her desire to live as a woman wrong, but the desire of a lesbian to live as a lesbian right ?

      I and most of society agrees, that every person should be able to live life, comfortable in their own skin, free from judgement.

      This applies to lesbians. This applies to transwomen. They are women too.

      This applies to transmen. They are men too. This applies to gay men.

      It has nothing to do with Gender roles, and everything to do with their right to self determination.

  • Meghan Murphy

    In Mexico, thousands of women are murdered by men every year. This is called ‘femicide.’ https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/mexicos-epidemic-of-missing-and-murdered-women/article25137141/?ref=http://www.theglobeandmail.com&

    I do not believe we should be competing for ‘most murdered’ status, and it is abhorrent that trans-identified men of colour are targeted, but it is not true that somehow females and trans-identified men are being murdered at the same rate.

  • John Stuart Mill

    There is no such thing as a sex change. Conceived a male, always a male. It’s in his DNA. If a woman wants to have sex with him? Fine. But she’s not a lesbian, as lesbians DO NOT WANT sex with a male, no matter how hard he tries to impersonate women. Lesbian is a sexual orientation, not a gender-al orientation. People, this is not hard. There is NOTHING progressive about the current/fad “trans” extremism.

  • linnet

    Equating our vaginas to essentially a ‘dick-pocket’ is beyond offensive tbh.

  • linnet

    pls check a site that has non-biased statistics

  • northernTNT

    Females decide what womanhood is, not males!

  • northernTNT

    Neurosexism is strongly debunked by neuroscientist Daphna Joel in this video. Watch carefully:

  • Meghan Murphy

    We do accept all women as women. We don’t accept that males can somehow become women. Does that help clear things up?

  • Serai 1

    Sick to death of men barging into women’s lives and insisting we must do as THEY say or we are somehow “bigoted” or “flawed”. We’re not even allowed to own our own name anymore – WOMEN. No, now some men have decided they want that name, too, as well as everything else about us that is ours. The struggle will never end, ever. We will never be allowed to just be ourselves, in peace, with no male intrusion, betrayal, or contempt.

  • Peta Johnson

    Interesting article, but I think this is a lost cause. Why? So much intellectual and emotional energy on the Left went into rejecting the proposition that there was anything unique about marriage that rendered it a heterosexual institution, bound to eventually disappear from the culture, that it is now very hard for ordinary people on the Left to accept that there is not any sort of sexual preference that as applied to the disadvantage of another is not a reflection of a phobia. Marriage has now been co-opted as a Leftist institution, something that was unthinkable just 20 years ago.

  • Katalina Bürger

    Riley J Dennis and Zinnia Jones are nothing but ugly, coercive, rape apologists, deploying conversion therapist tactics in dresses. Nothing more, nothing less. The fact that we’re allowing these men to dominate debate and invade every female space with their flawed arguments and shaky logic, lest we be condemned as bigots, scares me. It scares me for the millennial generation coming out as homosexual, to be met with “women have penises and men have vaginas too” bullshit. No! No they do not! You know what, let them call you transphobic bigots. Words are only words at the end of the day. Do not lose your conviction in the face of toxic, patriarchal oppression. Scream it out for what it is! Dangerous ideology that makes these men no better or any more moral than a convicted rapist or a conversion therapist.

  • Meghan Murphy

    “Most of society accepts transwomen as women.”

    lol no. The vast majority of the world does not believe trans identified males are women.

  • Omzig Online

    Cool! So you’re totally fine with me calling every single male I meet a “man,” right? Even if they’re wearing lipstick and a dress? It’s my freedom of speech, doncha know!

    What if he insists his penis is female, can I inform him that he’s a delusional paraphiliac? I know how vehemently you’ll defend my right to say “no” to any male.

    But that’s not really what you’re arguing for, is it?

    You are arguing in favor of violating women’s boundaries, infecting women’s private spaces with your presence, and gentrifying the word “woman” itself as if it were a fucking club that you’ve just been kicked out of.

    Back to the MRA blogs with you, little buddy! Your adorable little “freedom of speech!” mantra might actually be convincing there. But over here, it’s just another tired, empty platitude from another angry little manbaby.

  • lk

    Bless you for responding to this person, who seems to have responded to like every comment on this post lol!

    “Your identity problems are none of my business, but you know what IS my business? The biological sex of the person I have sex with and share my private spaces with.”

    It’s very strange to me to suggest that wanting to know my partner’s biological sex is some evil awful thing.

    There are legitimate reasons for women wanting to know their partners biological sex-let’s start with pregnancy and std concerns.

    (and when did self-identification become some sacred, holy thing that is above criticism?!)

  • JF

    >”So after 1989 the transgender men and women together did not differ from cis gender men and women regarding commnitting any crime or violent crime. This means that the trans population was not more criminal than the cis population after 1989.

    It specifically says EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE of what you claim

  • Meghan Murphy

    lol at you trying to school women on this. “Trans-identified males” = males who identify as “transwomen” or “women.” So-called “trans men” are females.

  • JF

    You are the one who needs to learn to read really fucking closely

    this was, however, only significant in the group who underwent sex reassignment before 1989.

    • Omzig Online

      Want to know how I can tell you’re a man? Because you’re too lazy to you your own homework. You want women to spoon feed you the information. Even the quote you just provided indicates there was no change in male patterns of criminality. Here:

      “Second, regarding any crime, male-to-females had a significantly increased risk for crime compared to female controls (aHR 6.6; 95% CI 4.1–10.8) but not compared to males (aHR 0.8; 95% CI 0.5–1.2). This indicates that they retained a male pattern regarding criminality. The same was true regarding violent crime.”

      Numbers don’t lie. Also, the crimes committed by trans-identified males is being tracked, both in the US and the U.K. According to their crime convictions, they are much more likely to perpetrators of crime than the victims, despite their deep-seated victim complex.

  • John Stuart Mill

    They are males taking hormones, not females.

  • Spike Robinson

    As has been said many times in this thread – but you are on auto-ignore + auto-repeat – what they call themselves doesn’t matter. It matters when they want to force other people to call them that too, “or else”. It matters much more when they want to deny other people the right to refuse to have sex with them as if what they call themselves was an objective fact, rather than subjective magic thinking and objectively false. Deny their consent, stigmatise them, un-person them, un-woman them, un-lesbian them. “TERF” them, punch them, rape them, kill them. That matters a helluva lot. And it matters a helluva lot when they want the force of law behind this word-rape, thought-rape and actual rape, and when they show real signs of progress in getting that legal force.
    Hence your repetitive and self-serving appeals to “legislators” rather than ethics. And your endless repetition of this “strawtranswoman” argument about what people call themselves. It’s an irrelevance. Read the article again and try responding to what it’s actually about. Or retreat back into your pornographic misogynistic fantasy universe and stay there.

  • Serai 1

    then lawmakers decide on this matter

    …the vast majority of whom are MEN. My, how very convenient.

    Fuck off. We are not a plot of land to fucking colonize, Sparky. You’ll just have to be happy with being the dominant ones in pretty much every aspect of our culture. Boo-fucking-hoo, poor little you.

  • Doll Parts

    They are not like those men, and they are not women just as we are.

  • TwinMamaManly

    Could you please define this “IPV”? How does it account for severity, intensity and frequency of the violence? Is a victim considered equally if it is a one-off face slap as compared to a woman repeatedly and frequently raped and bashed and hospitalised while having every aspect of her life controlled? Does this definition of violence include physical, sexual, verbal, financial, or emotional? And how is a victim determined – because if it’s self-reporting, there have been instances where women have had guns pointed at their heads not recognising it as IPV and males claiming “not having dinner on the table” qualified them as IPV victims. By failing to provide context and just rattling off a top level statistical interpretation is not exactly reflective of the lived experience of women. Perhaps it would be more accurate to look at the homicide or rape statistics, which would definitely be a more accurate reflection of women’s experience in a binary world.

  • TwinMamaManly

    Stop quoting that statistic, it’s erroneous as it fails to take into account any context. And I’d bet that 99 out 100 of those 1/17 men who were raped and raped by….other men

  • TwinMamaManly

    Yeah…but they’re not women, they’re transwomen. Sorry.

  • linnet

    Hi, we’re lesbians and we’re telling you that this happens. If you think we’re all lying bigoted cunts that’s a you problem.

  • linnet

    Zinnia, is that you again

  • linnet

    Hi, as of now, it is physically impossible to change your sex. Anyone that told you so is a a liar with something to hide.

  • linnet

    Getting really sick of seeing people intentionally misread that study. Get your homophobic ass outta here

  • Milee

    Have you ever heard of the Y chromosome? Taking a pill doesn’t change it into an X chromosome no matter how little testosterone is left in the body.

    So no, biologically they are not a woman since the 23rd chromosome pair determines a person’s sex and that is unaffected by anything they are taking. They remain XY instead of becoming XX.

  • Meghan Murphy

    “So in other words, TERFs are feminists (gay or straight) who deny that trans women are women.”

    So, in other words, a lesbian who knows what a lesbian is is a “TERF.”

    “And they threaten and harass trans folks.”


  • NadineLumley

    Interesting that much of the invective hurled about transgenders is about MTF trans. Do you all feel the same about FTM trans?

    • Meghan Murphy

      The reasons feminists are more focused on trans-identified males is because we are trying to protect our spaces from men….

  • Meghan Murphy

    What restrictions? Also, women aren’t a threat to anyone, nor are they the dominant class… False equivalence…