The progressives who let Trump win won’t get my solidarity so easily

Image: Alex Milan Tracy/AP
Image: Alex Milan Tracy/AP

During the course of the election, I invented a game that I’d play inside my head while I was in progressive circles: I would mention Hillary Clinton’s name and watch people’s reactions. Then I’d do the same thing with “Donald Trump” or “Martin O’Malley.” Without a doubt, Hillary drew greater ire. Well-meaning progressives would repeat “Hillary the monster” and “Hillary the criminal,” while Trump was dismissed — treated as either a joke or not a serious threat.

This is misogyny — even when so-called progressives hide that misogyny behind woke language.

If you were to look at news coverage coming out of the United States today, you would think that much of the country is incensed at the prospect of a Donald Trump presidency: thousands of people took to the streets in major cities across the U.S., a petition calling on the Electoral College to cast their ballots for Secretary Clinton has over four million signatures, countless angry think pieces have been published, as have many more furious tweets.

As an immigrant woman of colour living in the U.S. and as someone who is actively engaged in several social justice communities, you’d think I would find this energy, anger, and action inspiring. But I saw how this election cycle played out among many progressives and find their current professed outrage to be anything but.

Since the beginning of the presidential campaign, I watched my own progressive community — a large group of activists who advocate for socialism and fight racial discrimination, income inequality, and climate change — channel all their energy and passion into Bernie Sanders. Anything less than laudatory for him was unwelcome. When that cause ceased to be viable, the focus turned to Jill Stein. There was almost no acknowledgement that both of these candidates were also, on their own accord, deeply flawed.

If you voted for Hillary Clinton, maybe in spite of your critiques of her or the fact you disagreed with her approach to multiple issues, then I share your pain. If, however, you decided to sit this one out, despite the fact you were told the results of this election would have unimaginable consequences for people of colour, women, immigrants, and the environment, then I don’t buy this newfound sense of outrage and shock at the prospect of a Trump presidency one bit. It remains unclear how many people didn’t vote because votes are still being counted, but we do know that voter turnout was lower than the past two presidential elections. This election cycle, many people — particularly 18-29 year olds (Bernie Sanders’ core demographic) — who showed up to vote for Barack Obama in 2008 and 2012 simply stayed home.

Lucia Graves argues in The Guardian that this drop in voter turnout from young progressives indicates that what mattered during this election was not really progressive policy, but having a candidate who had that illusive “likeability” so many claimed Hillary was lacking. Graves writes:

“Whatever your opinions about Clinton, the most progressive Democratic platform in history was on the ballot with her; any Bernie Sanders supporter worth their salt should’ve been able to see that. If they cared about progressive policy they would have bothered to show up.”

But they didn’t show up, meaning that, as Graves exaplains, these progressive voters were more interested in Sanders’ “aura — a star-power defined in terms of a masculinity that’s become synonymous with political charisma” than his positions on various issues. Which is why this switch from passionately supporting a leftist candidate to staying home during the election, then, after the fact, protesting the results of the election, seems inauthentic.

This faux-concern is particularly nauseating coming from those who chose to play purity politics at the expense of the lives and safety of immigrants, women of colour, and victims of sexual assault like myself.

Now, I see denial and dishonesty — denial of the role these people actively played in dissuading others from supporting Clinton, and dishonesty in pretending they ever gave a fuck. By either not voting or by wasting a vote on a non-viable candidate, these people essentially decided that Trump was a better option for women and girls, communities of colour, and the environment than Hillary. I am struggling to see how I can work in solidarity with the same people who refused to do anything to prevent these results.

Since Clinton announced her intention to run for president in April 2015, the mere mention of her name was enough to incite outrage in activist spaces. The actual policies a Clinton administration had to offer and the overlap between some of her ideas and those of progressive groups were rendered irrelevant as Hillary was turned into a figure of hate.

In May 2016, I participated in a protest against Trump in Eugene, Oregon and was struck by the disgust my activist friends expressed towards Hillary — a disgust that was not replicated towards Trump.

The gendered allegations against her were all over the place, ranging from “she’s a monster” to “she changed her last name.” At one point, during a social gathering for my former activist group, I dared to say that she would be better for women’s rights than any other candidate running for president. I didn’t say she was a feminist, that she was ideal, or that she had an impeccable record on women’s rights — just that she was better than the other candidates. Six men, most of them white, took it upon themselves to mansplain my folly to me: they could not fathom how I could speak positively about Clinton, despite the fact she was the only person who could have stopped Donald Trump from becoming president.

Over the course of the election campaign, it became clear to me that, as an immigrant woman of colour, I have no voice in this country and that the leftist spaces that claim solidarity with the feminist movement are just as rife with misogyny as any other space in society.

When I became overwhelmed with anxiety over what a Trump presidency would mean for women’s rights, people of colour, and the environment, pulling away from my activist circles as a result, I was told I shouldn’t isolate myself. That the appropriate response to my stress and worry was to be active and fight. Without missing a beat, the same people who spent over a year demonizing the only person who could have stopped Donald Trump pivoted to playing Ally-In-Chief.

I’ve long urged those around me —  from my activist friends to my students — to channel their anger into activism. I still want to do that, but this time, I plan to channel my anger into solidarity with people who truly share my goals and vision and away from those who expressed misogyny towards Clinton while trivializing Trump.

Self-proclaimed progressives who fantasized about a Trump presidency (because “it would bring the revolution faster”) are not really on our side. Their choices have, in part, led to deep, searing pain in so many communities across this country. Super-woke white people who did absolutely nothing to prevent Trump’s victory, who are now pivoting from “anyone but HER” to “we need to make sure we protect vulnerable communities amidst this mayhem,” are hypocrites. This pivot only benefits them, as now they can position themselves as White Savior. They seem unaware that their romanticized vision of “the revolution” often happens at the expense of the most vulnerable and marginalized.

I don’t want to foment divisions in social justice circles during a time when we need every alliance we can muster, in order to challenge Donald Trump’s presidency and the Republican takeover of the Senate and House of Representatives. But I want progressives to take a very hard look in the mirror and ask themselves, “What role did I play in this? What did I do to prevent this from happening?” If they didn’t vote for Trump’s only viable opponent, I want these people to seriously consider who they are in solidarity with and what form of progressivism they support.

Amongst the protests and calls for resistance across the country, I see no acknowledgement or accountability for the big mistake so many progressives made this election season. Until that happens, we won’t be able to move forward in solidarity with each other.

Where was this deep sense of rage when we actually needed it? What if we had channeled the energy wasted on hating Hillary into preventing the situation we’re in now? These questions are worth asking —  if these progressives abandoned us once, they may well do it again, only to turn around the next day and ask, “How can I be in solidarity with you?”

Getting back on our feet after this massive setback to women’s rights, communities of colour, immigrants, and the environment won’t be pretty and it won’t be fast. It will be ugly, painful, and slow. Every woman, person of colour, and immigrant that I know has woken up with a heavier heart since November 8th. What I hear from them ranges from, “This is the saddest day of my life” to “I walk down the street knowing that everyone around me is a xenophobe who hates me.” Is this the revolution so many on the left idealized?

On Friday, on a conference call with her campaign staff, Hillary Clinton said, “When you’re ready, I hope you will get up and back in there and keep fighting.” I found this hopeful, but “when you are ready” particularly resonated with me — I am not ready to get back into the fight with these “allies,” because when Trump was elected I was already fighting. Making it through this will take time and will leave a deep scar. Don’t get me wrong — I will get back in the fight, but this time only with those who did everything in their power to make sure the words “President-elect Donald Trump” would not become a reality.

Raquel Rosario Sanchez
Raquel Rosario Sanchez

Raquel Rosario Sanchez is a writer from the Dominican Republic. Her utmost priority in her work and as a feminist is to end violence against girls and women. Her work has appeared in several print and digital publications both in English and Spanish, including: Feminist Current, El Grillo, La Replica, Tribuna Feminista, El Caribe and La Marea. You can follow her @8rosariosanchez where she rambles about feminism, politics, and poetry.

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  • Zhompo

    This is on point, and I agree with everything but that Hillary isn’t a feminist. She may not be the standard bearer that strong feminist want her to be, but for her to continue to put her head above the parapet in the way that she has, despite running her career through the establishment as an insider (rather than a lot of feminism which is run as being an outsider), means I believe she is deep down a feminist.

    There were significantly bad signs coming out of Wisconsin and Michigan on these fronts. People wrote in Bernie. People didn’t show up to vote at all. Voter suppression of minorities in Wisconsin could have cost Hillary up to 300,000 votes, and Wisconsin ignored a judicial ruling that forced them to ease some of the toughest restrictions which impacted the strongest on minorities. These perfect storm of issues is what caused the surprise losses in this state (also, Hillary should have visited Wisconsin, at least once).

    And the bile and hate that leeched out from the loss of “their candidate” for these self-entitled, often white young men meant they were too arrogant and self-centred to do the right thing. So focused on political purity, they couldn’t see the long game. Well, for white men, even liberal ones, Trump’s America might not be so bad, after all it’s veering towards an Administration driven to push class and racial divides with whites on top, all the while they feign disgust and wear their safety pins. Their loser socialist NEVER would have won in a nation that once embraced McCarthyism, and they refuse to accept it.

    And now Bernie, who barely bothered to rein in the hatred he marshaled during the primary campaign, is going around pretending to be some sort of leader of the Left in the Democratic Party. What a laugh. He’s not even a Democrat.

    And get Bernie-supporting Michael Moore saying “I told you so, I told you so…”, if you “told us so”, Michael, why weren’t you personally doing more to prevent the loss of a state critical to her win? Yes, I saw your Facebook posts, Michael. Did you volunteer to run the Michigan wing of the campaign if you were so worried, and you knew better than everyone else, as you keep making out? Did you?

    Have no doubt, the hate directed at Hillary from some “progressive” men, and women, is a form of misogyny, and it’s one Hillary has faced her entire career. Those who had the means and ability to vote didn’t.

    • northernTNT

      Thatcher did it too, does not make her a feminist.

      • Topazthecat

        Hillary has done a lot of important work for the rights of women and children for the last 30 years,and she promotes gender equality,that is the true definition of a feminist.

  • Laurie

    Hillary Clinton won the popular vote. It is the electoral college that gave the presidency to Trump. I’m a progressive who did not support either major party candidate. Many people voted down ballot while not voting for president at all. I voted for Green Party candidate Jill Stein. I lived as a single mother during the Bill Clinton presidency which Hillary Clinton supported all her husband really shitty policies that affected my life directly and while raping women and she discredited his accusers, women, through the media. A woman who stands by her serial rapist husband. I do not feel guilty and am really sick and tired of women with more financial means than me trying to shame me for not supporting a woman who protects her serial rapist husband all the while supporting his anti women policies and dissolving welfare and Social Services programs for women like me. She and Bill are not progressive they support neo liberal economics and are far right wing ideologues who moved the democratic party away from working class politics to Supporting Wall Street.
    I also argued with people over the comedy they found with Donald Trump. He too is a despicable human being. I’m have lost all faith in humanity that can’t seem to understand that the best policies are in fact socialist policies. And the support really horrible candidates get. beyond my comprehension. I voted for Bernie Sanders in the primaries but just as the electorate gave the presidency to Trump the electorate gave the nomination to Hillary Clinton a very weak candidate. Sanders was hostilely pushed aside by the DNC who favored Clinton while they are supposed to remain unbiased and objective. I watched this election daily. I saw what happened to Sanders a truly progressive candidate get treated like shit from the DNC. Don’t expect progressives to get on board with the DNC after their fiasco of an election.

    • Cynthia Cooper

      Amen, sister.

    • Clara Bryant

      I am a woman who was on food stamps when Bill was in office, and I am back on them now. I am the mother of a disabled child. I am the wife and mother of Mexican-Americans. I live in an extremely conservative state. My adult daughter is a single mother. And all I can say is, “Fuck you.” If you think Trump is going to be your friend when he’s appointing the Supreme Court Justice, you are a fool. If you think he’s going to be your friend when the Republican Congress is shoving hate down our throats, you are a fool.

      Want to play Oppression Olympics? The most oppressed segment of our population spoke on election day. They spoke with close to complete unity, one voice coming from roughly 95% of the demographic. They were Black women. I will give you a minute to figure out who they thought was in the best interest of their families. It wasn’t Stein. Not Sanders, either. (And it wasn’t during the primaries, in case you forgot.) Johnson wasn’t their boy, and Trump sure as hell wasn’t. Got a guess who it was?

      One thing would have stopped it. Despite not having voted for a major party candidate in a couple of decades, I did that one thing, knowing that there was still a fight to wage afterwards. Unfortunately, despite that fact, my family will suffer because people like you didn’t. Go feel pure somewhere else.

      • Cynthia Cooper

        “Despite not having voted for a major party candidate in a couple of decades”

        So what you’re now saying against Laurie and everyone else who didn’t vote for Clinton in this election could have been said about you for the past couple decades?

      • Leo

        Sorry to hear you’re in such a difficult situation. I can appreciate it must be tough seeing the result and worrying for your future, but I hope it needn’t divide those on the left too much simply because their views on the best approach differed.

        She didn’t support Trump. If I understand correctly, supporting the Greens makes a
        difference to their funding? As well as them gaining support needing to start somewhere, and the effect that can have on other parties – shifting the Overton window (this could be vital in raising awareness of climate change). So it does matter. It’s not simply to feel pure, it’s about wanting actual change.

        I don’t want to play Oppression Olympics, this is a genuine question since I’m not in the US,
        but how does it work out that black women are the most oppressed, would not class potentially have a significant impact?

      • Polly MacDavid

        Ya know, I was in the same position as you. I was a single mother when the Clintons were in office & I was on welfare, too. I have a disability & the whole welfare reform F’d up my life good. Took me years to get back on my feet. I’m on SSD & SNAP & I have to go to food pantries but at least I have some serenity now. My son is now grown & almost out of college. You can blame the Clintons for all that Welfare Reform & yeah, Bill said that he was gonna change welfare but don’t forget that Newt Gingrich was pushing for FAR worse measures. Anyway, as much as I may or may not like the Clintons, I voted for her over that orange monster & that VP he has WHO IS EVEN WORSE for women. Get over your own problems & think about ALL women who are affected by this election.

    • Aylune B. Papyrus

      You demonstrate exactly what Raquel Rosario Sanchez was talking about in her article.

      You chose to abandon women, people of color and the marginalized and hand them over to a fascist, misogynist xenophobe who wants to make their lives hell. You abandoned them to a man who is going to trample all over their rights.

      You are behaving in an incredibly selfish fashion. This isn’t about you and your feelings. You had to choose between a man who is going to hurt women, LGBT and racial minorities and a woman who wasn’t.
      All of those people didn’t matter to you, apparently. And still don’t since you “don’t feel guilty”. Well, thank you for letting us know of your selfishness and disregard for millions of vulnerable people’s lives ! We’re glad to know that !

      But then again, I’m guessing you’re not going to suffer any consequences, so why bother thinking about others less privileged than you are ? Meh.

      Donald Trump IS a serial rapist, by the way. Apparently being a serial rapist is a horrible thing when HRC’s husband is one, enough that you would hate her. But not enough that you would indirectly support an ACTUAL serial rapist when he runs for President. How does that work exactly ?

    • Independent Radical

      I never blame people with relatively little power for negative outcomes. I always try to stick the blame on the powerful. Clinton and the Democratic Party were the ones with power, not the voting or non-voting public (yes, even the middle income white women that the social justice crowd loves to hate on). If she didn’t impress her potential voters, I see that as her fault not theirs.

      Misogyny may have been a factor, but in a more indirect sense I feel. Misogyny pushed her into posing as the respectable, moderate candidate, in opposition to Trump who was blunter, more aggressive and had a clear vision. In tough times, people outside of academia people prefer politicians who are unafraid to take controversial stances, who say what they really think and who seem more like normal people who just happen to have landed in the political race (instead of someone who seems like they’ve been coached their whole life on how to behave like a proper politician). This isn’t necessary an attribute of the far right, Obama and Sanders tapped into some of this feeling as well, Clinton didn’t.

      When I watched Clinton debate Trump I couldn’t get a clear grasp on what her stances were. She spoke about problems, but not solutions and went after Trump (in a way that was itself completely justified). Of course I don’t want a blatant misogynist for president, but was Clinton going to do anything to fight the industries that turn boys into men like that (the sex industry and the sexualised, graphically violent mainstream media)? If she was she didn’t say anything. All any non-reactionary politician has to do is say “I will strictly regulate the sex industry, the pornography industry and the violent and sexual content of the media” and they will have my vote, but they don’t say that or anything like that. Clinton offered very little aside from the fact that she wasn’t Trump. In those situations people feel like they’ve been coerced into voting by an appeal to fear (the fear of Trump winning).

      As a radical leftist, I felt alienating by Clinton comparing Trump to Hugo Chavez. I’m not even really a Chavista, I think he was trying to make the capitalist system work for him, but policy wise, whether you like him or not, he wasn’t anything like Trump. He was the complete opposite (for better or for worse). The overall message behind that campaign seemed to be “I’m nice and sweet and don’t have angry opinions that win the support of the overly emotional masses, please vote for me”. Of course if she had acted angrily she would’ve been subject to misogyny in a way that angry male politicians aren’t, but I don’t think that’s a reason not to at least be honest about what she really thought. People are wondering if she was secretly more of a feminist deep down, but in my opinion, if you’re in a position of power where you can get away with being a true feminist (you have bodyguards to protect you from male violence) and you don’t openly say you are one, you’re not one. So she was ultimately brought down by misogyny, but it wasn’t just the misogyny of her opponents. She gave into misogynist norms by trying to be “respectable” and thus she wasn’t the sort of candidate people wanted in difficult times.

      I think blaming people who didn’t vote for her for what happened is like blaming domestic violence victims who fail to leave their abusers for the abuse (this is a strictly quantitative comparison, clearly not having a decent candidate to vote for isn’t equivalent to being abused). Yes their decision to remain in the relationship unavoidably results in more abuse (the same way not voting for Clinton resulted in Trump being elected), but we can’t blame those who make the decision to stay when they feel they have no alternatives. We should blame the abuser (Trump) and the people who could’ve offered an appealing alternative but didn’t (the Democratic Party). Trump is primary responsible for whatever evils he implements over his presidency and Clinton bares some responsibility because she failed to motivate a sufficient number of people (in key areas of the country, you can blame the electoral system, but she shouldn’t taken it into account during her campaign and targeted the key areas) to vote for her. I will not blame the masses for this.

      Anyone who is angry about Trump being president has a right to take to the street and proclaim their anger. Even if they voted for him and somehow saw the light afterwards. We need as many people as possible opposing this bastard, regardless of their specific politics. We definitely shouldn’t be excluding people on the basis that they don’t believe in elections as the way to bring about change. Protests, strikes and other methods by which the masses take matters into their own hands are what democracy is about in my opinion, not which wealthy advantaged individual gets to rule over everyone else.

      I don’t think the revolution is going to happen any time soon. Trump definitely will not help it happen, people get temporarily mad about reactionary changes and then accommodate to them, especially when policies are introduced to discourage political activism (e.g. anti-union policies, neo liberal policies with regard to universities). Disillusionment with a mainstream liberal politician who failed to live up to their promises (like they almost all do) could just as easily be a catalyst for the radicalising of the population. In fact that’s what happened. People were disillusioned with Obama and Trump posed a “radical” alternative in the absence of a radical leftist alternative. We got the wrong kind of revolution.

      Still that’s not a reason to give up on a politics that encourages the masses to rely on themselves instead of supposed individual heroes (politicians) and put forward policies directly. Clinton’s victory would’ve lead to us fighting a lot of the same battles, since she didn’t even have any clear policies to back paddle from. I encourage everyone regardless of what they did before or during the election to take to the streets in opposition to Trump, preferably with a clear set of criticisms. The masses should be the true rulers of the country anyway.

    • genny

      You helped elect Trump, whether you want to admit it or not. You must not care all that much about your welfare benefits and social services programs, because now the man you elected is going to do away with ALL of them. I am on Social Security and I get SNAP benefits, Medicare and Medicaid and now I’m terrified of becoming homeless and dying because of Trump and Ryan eliminating my income. It’s made me suicidal thinking about it, and you want to sit there and preach that Hillary would have been a horrible president, and that for some reason you think her husband is a “serial rapist” – hello, no proof of that – well, screw your feelings. The rest of us are going to have to pay for your high fallutin’ wacked out value system. Thanks so much for that.

      • Hillary had plans to do the exact same thing that Trump and Ryan openly admitted to wanting to do. The difference is that Hillary was very quiet about it, and planned to do it incrementally. So don’t be fooled: She would have promptly picked up where her husband left off when he began “reforming” social security for the low-income disabled in the same way that welfare was “reformed” – one cut at a time.

        • Sara Marie

          Can you provide sources to info about HRC’s plans for slowly gutting welfare once elected? Thanks.

  • Lucia Lola

    Whenever a conversation steered towards the American election, inevitably there would be someone with the ridiculous opinion that the two candidates were as awful as the other, and that it was a toss up between two equal evils.

    Donald the buffoon and Hillary the bitch. Guess the “buffoon” was less scarier.

    • Polly MacDavid

      Yeah, I know. I had a really good friend like that, he always had to “balance” his FB postings with a bad HRC story following a stupid orange monster story. & I was like, why? Why do you have to do that? He said he had to tell both sides of the story. But that’s not what he was doing. Another former friend called her a “hag”. I honestly believe that if Hillary was young & hot, the whole outcome would have been much different. Which really shows how F’d up the US is.

  • CloudBrack

    I hear and share your pain. I voted for our Democratic candidate, and more than voted; I tried to encourage voting even when the polls and media predicted a big Hillary win.

    But I cannot deny solidarity with the protesters, because I need them, and I want them to join with me (us?) in defending freedom of speech, thought and belief, democracy, people of color, LGBTQ folk, women, children immigrants, and all humanity.

    Personally, I find a good use of my energy in the Just Join Canada and CalExit movements. It may not be the positive outlet for you, but ultimately, you need to ensure you find a positive investment which suits you. Yes, we defend; to me that’s not negotiable; but what do we want to build or feed? How to express this positively, so we can sustain ourselves and each other, is in my opinion helpful.

    Much respect, sympathy, and commitment to our shared values.

    Apologies if I double posted; mods this one is slightly newer (and spellchecked.)

    • Topazthecat

      I got news for you,the T in the LGBT you mentioned was a big factor of why Hillary lost the election.

      • Sara Marie

        Where was it mentioned as a “big” factor? I’ve heard it reported by one, maybe two, women, that that was partly what turned them away from voting dem, though this wAs along with other reasons as well. And these were women who certainly sounded conservative overall.

        Not that having separate spaces for men and women should only be an issue limited to conservatives, just that in mainstream (malestream?) politics that’s the way it is.

  • skilletblonde

    I knew that the media surrounding Hilary Clinton was truncated and hardened. It wasn’t just the 24 hour thrashing she would get from right-wing media properties like Fox News, the 3,000 or so A.M. radio stations, think-tanks, podcasts, and websites. It was also the so called neutral networks like CNN, MSNBC, ABC, NBC, and CBS. Unfortunately, for Clinton, these networks, in their quest to be neutral (a policy that always helps the Republican Party) they had become more like Fox News. They have a very deceptive form of reporting that media critics called the false equivalency. Trump’s towering scandals, his sexual assaults, his refusal to release his tax returns, his numerous bankruptcies, his businesses being a threat to national security, his stiffing of workers, etc., in their totality, these were deemed not as serious as Clinton’s one email scandal. These networks never failed while giving Trump 3 billion dollars worth of free media, and parading him around like a prince, to remind the public about Hilary’s emails. Never mind the email scandal was just a ruse perpetrated by the Republicans and their right-wing henchmen. This is the same media, by the way, that continues to sit on video tapes of Trump being blatantly racist and sexist while on the set of his reality show, the Apprentice. But to add insult to injury, and most disappointing, the left joined in on the Clinton hating fray.

    Progressive media properties like the Young Turks, the Real News Network, Ring of Fire, Democracy Now, etc., were just as critical of Clinton than any right-wing media. Indeed, the hatred of Clinton by the left was shocking. The Young Turks, with millions of online viewers, used its media capacity to malign Clinton in a most vicious way. It was so extreme that it bordered on conspiratorial. The lost of accomplishments for the past 50 years were at stake; but they didn’t care. Women rights, civil rights, meant nothing. The catastrophe that Trump would bring was barely emphasized. They just couldn’t deviate from their self-righteousness and narcissism. They will throw the baby out with the bath water, dammit. There is an old religious term that describes this faction of the left. They are so heavenly minded that they are no earthly good. .

  • northernTNT

    Blaming progressives instead of right-wingers makes no sense.
    The pendulum swung, when has it not. Only 1-2 times have the DEMs ever elected consecutive presidents. This was a lost cause from the beginning. The DEMs had sacrificial candidates.

    • Tired feminist

      Ok, but then what to do about it? Let Trump win or vote for Clinton?

    • CB in CA

      Actually, it makes perfect sense to blame progressives for the election results FOR THE GOP.

      – Alienate Democrats, Greens, and Bernie people from each other? Yes, good for the GOP.
      – Distract the country from the disaster of a transition, lack of a plan, a staff, an agenda? Yes, good for the GOP.
      – Distract people from following protests or supporting protesters? …
      – Distract people from the hate crimes? …
      – Distract from the Russia / tax records / Putin issue?…
      – Distract from the Dakota pipeline and their January 2017 completion deadline contracts for 2014 oil prices? …
      – Distract from what Pence is doing on women’s and LGBTQ issues?

      Tricking us to fight with each other or argue if Bernie could have won?

      Distractions to redirect our attention. Which they will try to milk for years to come.

      What do you think?

  • Leo

    Fine, maybe we couldn’t work together but some goals will still align – that’s Ok I think. Need there be agreement on everything? Those in the US need to realise they may well not understand the political situation in the UK. I’m really sorry you guys now have to put up with (the awful) Farage, I can’t stand to see his smug face, but treating Brexit as equivalent and blaming Stein is an absurdity. Here UKIP and Farage are still regarded as fringe fruitcakes (and there was in fact plenty of awareness before the vote that he was lying) – while the US just elected theirs, and he even makes Farage look nearly measured in comparison. We’re simply not as far right – I can’t see any obvious ways in which the Dems aren’t at least as right wing as our Tories. Our furthest left wing paper, The Morning Star, advocated a Leave vote, French communists, Greek socialists were coming on comment threads to say how pleased they were on the night of the referendum result – the liberal left is not the whole of the left especially outside the US.

    An anti-war stance is not something I will ever see it being possible to ‘compromise’ on, as a feminist and simply as part of my political views generally. I do not see radical change as possible while supporting the status quo. I regard this as the mistake US progressives keep making – they cannot seem to see outside it.

  • Polly MacDavid

    This has nothing to do with progressives not voting for HRC. I had problems with her too, but it wasn’t because she was a woman. Honestly, there were LOTS of things I liked about Hillary, one of which is that she personally helped me when she was a NY Senator & I was a citizen of that state. She could have won & she should have won & as we are finding out, she DID win the popular vote & if the US didn’t insist on holding onto antiquated slavery-era laws & customs, such as the 2nd Amendment & the Electoral College, she would have won easily. But probably the real reason she did not win – as I have said before – is the gutting of the 1965 Voting Rights Act by the Supreme Court in 2013 & a Republican system called “Crosscheck” which checks names of people & if they have the same or even similar names in two separate states, they are purged from the voting rolls. As someone who used to work at a city public library & used to register school children for library cards, I can attest that the amount of people with EXACTLY the same name is ENORMOUS. See for proof. There was a reason that the Voting Rights Act went before the Supreme Court in 2013 & not 2014 or 2015; it took them a while to come up with the program to purge the rolls & to do the actual work of purging. But believe me, it was done. & it was just about the same amount of people that DIDN’T vote for Clinton.

  • fxduffy

    Wowie, what a morning.. am overwhelmed by moving/convincing pieces by here by Raquel Rosario Sanchez and Rebecca Solnit (postings by skillertblond, Zhompo etc) which together sum up my thoughts on the progressive/left role in Hillary Clinton’s loss.

    And then the piece at GenderTrender on the murder of two lesbians and their grown son by a well-known m2ts activist.

    So much to take in but so glad that the whole road to Understanding is understanding. So, absorbed in this writing and responses to it I am.

  • Dear Prudence

    When I posted a video of a woman crying after voting for Hillary saying how happy she was to vote for a woman a BernieBrat re blogged with the message “lol voting based on your genitals.”
    I have never liked or trusted white liberal men because my father was a liberal and also a sociopath who threatened to kill me. I once confronted him on his childhood friend’s viscous racism – he screamed at me at he top of his lungs “SHUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUT UPPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!! SHUT UPPPPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!!”
    He loved screaming at the tv when Bush was president. After Obama won he almost seemed deflated and disappointed(even though he voted for him) Liberal losers love to complain, it seems to give them life.
    Another white male berniebrat said on twitter that the JIll stein/johnson vote didn’t matter. When I told him that Hillary lost in the !% range in some states he told me I probably wasn’t good at math.
    The brats are complaining en masse that women and black people make people (justifiably)hate liberals and their racist mommies and daddies would’ve voted for Hillary if only she wasn’t the she devil from hell who didn’t care about white male “populism.”
    There’s never going to be a woman president in the untied states of amerikkka. Never ever ever ever.

  • Meghan Murphy

    GreatPostLinda back with more GreatPosts!

  • Meghan Murphy

    Please don’t call other commenters ‘fucking stupid,’ Laurie. Thanks.

    • Laurie

      They started swearing and telling me to fuck off first I just gave them what they gave me.

  • Aylune B. Papyrus

    I thought the one who was going to forever soil feminism was Donald Trump by trampling on women’s reproductive rights, enabling policies that will hurt poor women and women of color, and bragging about sexual assault while legitimizing it by showing to men every where how much people don’t care that they rape and abuse women, so go ahead and rape them all you like.
    If you’re more disgusted with Trump than Hillary Clinton, don’t even pretend for one second it has anything to do with feminism. You threw vulnerable women under the bus. You don’t give a rat’s ass about women or feminism.

    • Meghan Murphy

      “If you’re more disgusted with Trump than Hillary Clinton…” Do you mean to say, “If you’re NOT more disgusted with Trump than Hillary Clinton?”

      I wasn’t sure if there was a typo in there or not…

  • WolfGirl

    Thank you. I hear you. I am with you.

  • Meghan Murphy

    I thought ‘white feminism’ was to blame for Trump’s win? Which one is it? Black women came out in great numbers for Hillary, brah.

    • David

      Hillary Clinton represented “White feminism.” She represented the oppression of millions of black and brown women and children across the globe. You’re not a feminist if you would have cheered for Hillary, and by doing so would have cheered for continued deportations of central american women and children, continued bombings of middle eastern women and children, continued fracking that would disproportionately affect the poor, and continued neoliberal policies that concentrate wealth into the top 1%.

      • Meghan Murphy

        If she represented ‘white feminism,’ what does that mean for all the black women who voted for her?

        Also, none of our writers have argued that Hillary is their feminist idol, just that she has done some good things for women and would be far better than Trump, as president.

        You are arguing in memes, not facts.

      • Morag999

        Well. Thank goodness the obscenely wealthy Donald Trump and his pro-feminist, pro-working class, pro-lesbian/gay, anti-racist, anti-slavery, anti-war, anti-capitalist brothers are going to fix all that genocide, rape, sex slavery, murder, poverty and oppression caused by the collaboration of powerful white ladies.

        The people have spoken! Trump will destroy Evil White Feminism and bring justice and peace to the world!

      • Cassandra

        I think you’ve mixed up what you think Hillary would have done with what Trump is surely going to do.

        • b00mer

          It’s more like what Trump talks about doing vs what Hillary *has already* done.

          • Cassandra

            I didn’t know that Hillary built a wall to block Mexico and appointed conservative judges to gut women’s abortion rights.

  • Meghan Murphy

    lol. On another post last week you told us all we were supposed to ‘normalize’ prostitution. Too late, we all know you don’t gaf about marginalized women.

    • GreatPostLinda

      I’m beginning to think you’re a closet republican. It should disturb you that you share opinions with the alt right. They want to ban prostitution too. They also want to maintain and expand the American empire. I suppose you’re in favor of imperialism as well?

      • Meghan Murphy

        Trump think we should normalize prostitution too — are you disturbed to share his position on women, the sex trade, and the free market?

        Also, you may be aware that I am a socialist. Do you know what that is?

        • GreatPostLinda

          Many gay people stay in the closet and call themselves straight. It doesn’t change what they really are. You can call yourself whatever you want but I still think you’re a closet rethug.

          • Meghan Murphy

            Whoops! Got a little sidetracked there, eh? Again, do you know what a socialist is? Do you know what it is that Republicans support, by contrast? Do you know what the word “feminism” means?

        • radwonka

          gotta love how she didnt answer Trump pro prostitution stance

          And here I nearly thought that she truly cared about trafficked victims. Pro prostitution will always be trash and liars I guess.

  • Jeanne Deaux

    Let’s remember that Clinton won the popular vote and Trump only got the White House on a technicality.

    It works out the same in the end, but it *says* something different–yes, there are spoiled manbabies and their handmaidens trying to make sure we never have any nice things, but there aren’t as many as we might have imagined.

    And they won’t be around forever. They’ll grow up or they’ll die off, whichever comes first. I just wish they hadn’t devastated SO many communities on the way out. And you can bet they are not going to be lined up to help you either. Virtue-signaling on Facebook, maybe, like that ever really accomplished anything.

    • John McDonald

      “Trump only got the White House on a technicality.”

      Excuse me? The electoral college is a “technicality”? It is a fundamental principle of American democracy designed to ensure that the rights of the electorate in smaller states are not ignored by politicians seeking election victories in a handful of larger states. If the electoral college did not exist, politicians would only care about voters in California, New York, Florida and Texas.

      “there are spoiled manbabies and their handmaidens trying to make sure we never have any nice things”

      And it is this attitude which was so prominent among the elites in the Democratic party which explains why Donald Trump is the president elect. By dismissing the very real and legitimate concerns of the people suffering from economic uncertainty and a feeling of alienation in the US “rust belt”, the Clinton Democrats practically handed the election to Donald Trump. Bernie Sanders won those states for a reason. He represented change, and the people of those states and of that economic class desperately wanted change. Clinton didn’t promise them the change they wanted. Hell, Hillary Clinton barely campaigned in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin! Hillary openly campaigned on the platform of “stay the course” – she was not the “change candidate”.

      Perhaps instead of vilifying and dehumanizing people you don’t know and don’t understand (manbabies? really?), you might try empathizing with them. If Hillary had done that instead of demeaning the people who were leaning towards Trump (irredeemable deplorables she called them), she might be the president elect.

      • Tired feminist

        Trump supporters have no “empathy” for us. You can fuck off with your empathy talk.

  • Topazthecat

    I’m very sorry that you can’t get snap and health care in your state! Isn’t there any agencies or organizations that can help you? There really should be!

    • Raysa_Lite

      There really aren’t.

      I am eligible for medicaid, but my state declined it. Also, you can be eligible for snap but if you have no children and are under 50, then you can only collect 3 months every 36 months.

      There are no clinics. I am 44. Lack of medical care is going to kill me.

      It’s punishment for not having kids. Just my opinion.

  • Bleeps3

    I rely on Social Security and live below the federal poverty line, as well. Obama has done a lot to try to recover from The Great Recession. He did inherit that. To keep the social safety net going, there has to be a functional economy. Right now, it is mostly only functional for the wealthy, and it is likely to get worse from here on out. Obama and Hillary talked about increasing SS benefits, and that is better than the rhetoric of privatizing it, to help those who rely on it.

  • Jokuvaan

    Well now that you have been in a safe space bubble enough isolated from the reality on the ground, to be surprised about Trump winning it might be a good idea to make even more smaller safe space bubbles inside the larger one. Soon you only have to care about some temporary interruptions and the rest of the society won’t even notice you and both can do their own thing on their own not caring about the other.

    Unless of course if you want to influence society…

    • Cassandra

      You’re barking up the wrong tree by admonishing “safe spaces” here, bro’. We’re radfems, not libfems.

      • Tired feminist

        Lol do you think they even know the difference?

        • Robin Goodfellow

          Nobody other than activists is going to know the difference between terms like radfems and libfems. I sure don’t.

          The election of Trump threatens to reverse decades of advances made by feminists. Therefore, feminists need to get everybody on board as they can. Overuse of terms that are obscure to the general public are going to scare away potential allies.

          • Tired feminist

            Feminists need to do feminism. Feminism is not supposed to “get everybody on board”, it’s supposed to get women on board.

  • DeColonise

    It still is horrible how they treat Greece.
    the EU project is a horrible one. The over-the-top wealthy men (and a few women) in power in Brussels sits there and makes decisions all in favour of the German banks who keep bleeding poorer nations such as Greece dry to maintain their hegemony of power.

    Western media has not bothered to write much about this but when Obama visitided Greece just a few days ago this went down

    Riots in Athens at Obama’s visit as Greeks scream ‘Barack go home’

    People, esp in poorer nations, are revolting against the politics of globalism.

  • Raysa_Lite

    I’m in SC, which has been red for decades. My vote has never counted in a presidential election, not one time, since I have never voted republican.

    This entire thing is just so heavy. I can’t satisfactorily convey with words what it does to me, as a woman, as a person that has been sexually assaulted, as a human being, that this country has this president that thinks so little of women. ALL women. And I know that I am not alone.

    And my heart is breaking as women blame each other for this. How can trump be our fault? The very act of living the way that I have to keeps me in such a desperate state. I feel bad literally every day of my life about something. Sometimes, every minute is just such a fucking struggle and now my life is going to be worse. And I feel like I almost can’t face it.

    And then this, on top of that. To know that other women are so angry. At ME. And people like me. I didn’t vote for stein out of privilege or misogyny or hatred for Clinton. I did what I thought was right.

    But in the end, it really doesn’t matter. Because we are going to be hateful and nasty to each other, anyway. I almost can’t take it.

  • radwonka

    ” would forever soil feminism”

    Too late, You support prostitution so you already soiled feminism ¯_ツ_/¯

  • will

    “I lived through Bill Clinton’s presidency and saw HRC support all his horrible policies.”

    I have to say that the commenters here who claim that Hilary is responsible for her husband’s administration policies while she was First Lady and who further claim that she would have simply continued as a sort of Bill Clinton sock puppet had she become President, and who also claim that it’s NOT sexism but a higher form of progressivism that drives their condemnation of Clinton, are pretty damn funny.

  • DeColonise

    That the anti-globalisation movement is nowadays mostly driven by right winged parties is indeed a problem. But I have to say I believe one or two reasons that is is because the left around Europe and western world have been busy to either 1. protect power 2. cram identity politics down every bodies throat.
    The whole anti-globalistion movement have been around for years. It had deep tied to leftist values and critiques of power such as capitalism, multinational corporations growing power over the world. How the western world (western civilisation as some call it, the centre of capitalism) has used globalists tactics to force a number of nations outside us into this system of power whether they liked it or not.

    Yet besides a few pockets of leftist people (radical feminists, environmentalists and socialists and so on) what people see as the left has been pretty much unresponsive to this growing irritation and concern among the people. But the right winged parties saw their chance. They took it and so a man like Farage stepped up and I bet most left and right winged people in Europe has seen the earlier videos of him from within the Brussels talking back to these very wealthy men and their lack of touch with the people in the nations.

    I can say as someone living in Sweden I thought he was a leftist in the beginning. I got surprised when I learned he was not. But then of course as UKIP grew in the UK and got a more hold of the whole ‘anti-establishment’ thoughts among the people he began to display more and more of the classic right winged attitudes of course.

    My point, if there is one with this post, the left has been pretty much either been beaten down by the establishment (and those they serve) itself or simply not bothered much at all and gave the right kind of an open goal to just start shooting goals.

  • Ghost

    LOL! That’s a good one. Ya, sure, people just LOVE a political philosophy promising to outsource their jobs.

  • John McDonald

    “remove their responsibility as citizens to participate in the vote, to
    grow up and realize that there is a real world beyond your individual

    Oh. My. God. The unmitigated hubris evident in this statement takes my breath away. Voters are now OBLIGATED to vote AGAINST there OWN interests to ensure that YOU get the election result YOU want? On which planet does this make sense?

    The fundamental principle of democracy is for the people to vote in (or vote OUT) the people THEY think need to be voted in (or out). Voters rarely (if ever) get “exactly what they want” – in most cases its voting for the “least bad” candidate. For 53% of white women and 32% of Latino women, they would rather take a huge risk with Donald Trump rather than just “stay the course” with Hillary Clinton. That tells you a great deal about how desperate those people wanted change.

  • John McDonald

    “is to demolish and dismantle the system that put him there in the first place”

    Well Said! Well Said! I think you hit the nail on the head. I suspect that if anyone can “demolish” the system it will be Trump – mostly due to his incompetence, narcissism and ignorance. Let’s just hope that the damage will not be so extensive that the “left” can’t rebuild something better from the rubble. That depends a lot on purging the Democratic party of Wall Street corporate types and “Ivy League” elitists.

  • Cassandra

    I’m sorry. I don’t read Autostraddle but this is not the first time I’ve heard that they aren’t so nice to the community they claim to serve.

  • Tiffany Vang

    Again…the very people who did not vote for Clinton and chose Trump voted in Obama twice. You cannot call a these voters all misogynists or racists just because Clinton did not win. True, many racists likely voted for Trump, and many racists likely voted for him as well, but to call the whole lot as all the same sounds a lot like a child name calling because they didn’t get there way. The world is not so black and white as you paint. Get off the “we didn’t get our woman president” high horse and try to understand why we have a Trump in the White House. If you care so much, you must work to bring in voters for the Democrats vs. throwing a tantrum about not having a woman in the White House. Blaming the voters is the worse thing you can do in this election. No one is entitled to our vote; they have to work for it and make their case.

    • Cassandra

      I’m going to withdraw from this conversation, Tiffany. You sound very young and I feel like I’m punching down. Best of luck to you.

  • Tiffany Vang

    Being a woman doesn’t make one a feminist. Lets get that straighten out. See beyond representational “feminism” and get out of your narrow view of what feminism is. Just because men do it, women get a pass? Clinton is no feminist.

    • Meghan Murphy

      We are all well aware that ‘woman’ does not = ‘feminist’. I understand you are new here, but please don’t make assumptions about what people here know or do not know. We are all well aware of what feminism is.

      • Tiffany Vang

        Please calm down.

        • Meghan Murphy

          lol bye

    • Cassandra

      “Being a woman doesn’t make one a feminist.”


  • Tiffany Vang

    WOW. So we now need a tape to believe someone was assaulted or raped? When did feminism become a “Democrat” or “Republican” thing? Feminism shows no loyalty to party lines, and yet so many of you are blinded by the celebrity status of Clinton. What about the women of color who suffer from low wages (something Clinton has refused to commit to until late), the women in the Saudi Arabia, Libya, Syria? Do they not matter?

  • Tiffany Vang

    I think you should calm down. Calm down. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and this in the internet…so of course we don’t know the author.

    Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren have now risen as the leaders of the Democrats moving forward, and I am happy to see that they are leading the charge against Donald Trump and corruption.

    • Meghan Murphy

      Please don’t tell women to calm down. It’s condescending. In any case, will seems perfectly ‘calm’ to me.

    • slavicdiva

      Baloney Sandwiches is not, and never has been, a Democrat. He has done everything in his power to destroy the Democratic party. At least try to get your facts right.

      Incidentally, telling people to “calm down” is rude, patronizing and condescending. Stop it.

  • satah

    There’s a lot of back and forth about progressives vs. Clinton supporters, but don’t we have the same goals? This is being divisive. We have Trump to worry about, but now our allies (progressives) have to pass some kind of test? Should we be mad at the majority of white women that voted for Clinton? Should we be angry at the low voter turnout among the poor? Or among marginalized groups like the young, minorities, and etc? Why are we so angry at voters? Shouldn’t we use our time better? The people who we can hold accoutable are our political parties.

  • satah

    Finally, someone who gets it. Feminism does not function in the realm of the US, within borders, or by the standards set by patriarchy. It is supposed to be fucking radical, not representational.

    Best comment award goes to you. Now, where can we find articles by radical feminists?

  • satah

    This judgment on people who did not vote is condescending. Study after study shows that many of the poor, marginalized groups, and minorities do not vote for a variety of barriers. Don’t point your finger at those who chose not to vote. This has been the hallmark of America for decades, where the poor and the despair don’t vote, while the privilege and rich do. And then the superiors look down and shame nonvoters for not voting, when they vote for candidates that have brought little prosperity to the poor. Save your judgment and anger for our politicians, and instead why not ponder why people chose not to vote? Or organize and register the poor to vote for their interests? I cannot stand this finger pointing. You have no right.

  • Cassandra

    “Real Feminists” ?? LOL!! You’re a “real feminist” if you don’t vote and by abstaining help elect a man who is most likely going to have the opportunity to fill TWO supreme court seats with conservatives? Do you not care about the women in the United States? Nothing good is going to come out of him being in office. Nothing. And it will take years to fix the damage.

  • Tired feminist

    I come from a country where voting is mandatory, and there we’re used to the concept of “useful vote”, i.e. voting for a candidate who does not represent you just to prevent the much worse opponent from winning. I’m amused at how outraged some US-Americans get at this. Lol

  • That 74 year old socialist Jew from Vermont, a nearly all-white state, was very well-received in the “Brexit states” (as Michael Moore called Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Michigan) – all of which rejected Hillary, but loved the shit out of Bernie. Because he spoke to the issues that the people cared about. And more importantly, he did so without excluding poor rural whites. He was liked a LOT more than Trump. I live in one of those “Brexit states” so I know this.

    “Poverty should not be a death sentence in America.” ~ Bernie Sanders.

    Remember those words? I do. I also remember that none of the other two candidates even talked about jobless poverty and the need for a legit safety net for those who can’t work due to health problems and age, and for those whom no employers will hire. Sanders was from the working class. The other candidates were not, but the worst of them – Donald Trump – at least had enough savvy to know how to tap into disenfranchised working class people’s anger while all Hillary did was invite contempt. She wouldn’t be caught dead at a VFW fish fry.

    I also know all too well that ever since Welfare Reform and blanket denials for SSI, millions of Americans suffered and died from unrelieved abject poverty.

    All we’ve heard from the Democrats for the past 35 years as the answer to poverty was calls for jobs – and then there was Welfare Reform. But where was the guaranteed right to a job so that this nation’s poorest and least-advantaged women would get hired and be able to economically support ourselves with just a tiny little bit of human dignity?

    It doesn’t matter what Hillary’s “plans” may or may not have been had she won the presidency. She did nothing for poor women who’ve suffered (many who even died) as a result of the austerity policies she supported and called a “success.”

    She also did not stand up to the executives of The Big Three auto makers in Detroit, the heart of the Rust Belt, and tell those CEOs that if they would not bring all the jobs back that they outsourced, they would not be able to sell their cars on US soil. But Trump DID say that.

    I spent the better part of 18 months warning people that the writing was on the wall: if Hillary did not step down and let Bernie have the nomination, the result would be a disaster because we’d end up with Trump. But nobody listened. Instead, they blamed disenfranchised people who refused to be bullied into voting for Hillary.

    The region where I live has appalling poverty and the rest of Americans don’t care – they hate poor rural whites. Many of them are even rejoicing in the fact that poor rural whites from generational poverty with NO incomes and NO medical care are DYING at least 2 decades younger than those who are at least fortunate to have their health and have jobs and access to medical care. With more and more people that have fallen into deep poverty due to neoliberal economic policies, resentment and anger began to fester and it has been brewing for a long time.

    Many people spent months warning everyone that there was going to be one hell of a shitstorm if a neoliberal corporatist was given the nomination (and then billed as a “bold progressive”).

    Middle class/rich women of ANY color have resources so they CAN leave the country and go somewhere else, especially if they’re still young. It’s POOR older women – including poor rural white women – that are trapped who can’t leave. We’re stuck having to suffer the consequences of what politics and policies the middle class and the rich impose.

    No country accepts poor American women as immigrants or as economic/political refugees.

    This whole debacle was ENTIRELY economically privileged people’s fault – not mine, not Laurie’s, and not Raysa’s. If our lives didn’t matter before the election, then our votes don’t matter at the voting booth.

    (Note to others on this thread: You don’t get to pick and choose when poor marginalized women count as human beings and when we don’t.)

    The vicious bullies on this thread were NOT the women who did “the one thing” to prevent a Trump presidency, they were the women who helped cause it – by the way they’ve constantly crapped on and bullied other women. Especially poor marginalized rural white women who are unable to economically provide for ourselves who get nothing but told all the time how spoiled and privileged we are.

    Privileged to have and be what, exactly? To be hungry and homeless? To be without any income or medical care in post-Welfare Reform America? To be jobless/unemployable? To be dehumanized as “poor white trash” who deserve to suffer and die from poverty? To be trafficking victims who are unemployable? To not have family support? To freeze to death from having no heat in the winter?

    Want to know who REALLY has privilege? Those who are able to economically provide for themselves and get their voices heard and their agenda prioritized and who feel ENTITLED to shove their way to the front of the line – regardless of skin color – over and ahead of those of us who’ve gotten nothing but shoved aside, stripped of our most basic human rights to food, medical care and shelter (per the UN’s UDHR), and then silenced and chased out of the public square whenever we try to speak up about it.

    Politics, just like everything else in this shithole of a country, has always been middle class-only space – the truly poor have never been welcome or included or allowed to have a voice (“We Don’t Serve Your Kind”)

    The ONE candidate who would have made life suck a hell of a lot less for ALL women, including poor women (and everyone else in general) was the very same candidate the establishment and feminists scornfully derided as “an old white d00d.”

    Instead they pushed for their “First Woman President” candidate who was NOT the candidate they should have propped up in a season of uncontainable populist anger – just because “it was HER turn.”

    They KNEW Hillary would lose in Appalachia, the Ozarks, and the Rust Belt but that didn’t matter to them – Hillary and her supporters decided that poor rural women and the women in flyover country were not vital to the election since before the primaries.

    They also knew that she was despised and distrusted by many in these regions who suffered very real harm because of the neoliberal policies Hillary had a long established track record of supporting.

    It’s almost as if these people wanted to give the presidency to Trump!

    They certainly had NO concern for poor marginalized women who are forced to suffer the consequences as a result of their gross error in judgment and total lack of situational awareness.

    Throwing a huge chunk of the population under the bus is NOT a winnable strategy.

    How did middle class feminists of ALL colors, elistist rich liberals on the coast, and other Hillary supporters think shit would turn out?

    Hillary is doing just fine. She’s probably elated that her taxes won’t go up to help support the poor. She comfortably retired back to her safe and secure 1% life without a care in the world. Middle class and rich women of ALL colors who were Hillary’s base have the means to emigrate when the shit hits the fan – poor women don’t. So the next time anyone wants to jump on a poor marginalized woman for her refusal to support a neoliberal candidate, everyone else might do well to remember that. It’s not “purism”, it’s about shit being that bad that a desperate radical change is needed – because for some of is, it really IS a life and death matter.

    • Raysa_Lite


      Something else about this that makes me really uncomfortable is the “you didn’t vote how I wanted you to, so I won’t support you”.

      Women voted the way that they did for various reasons, all important to them at the time. I don’t like that any woman anywhere voted for trump. But that’s HER voice, and she’s entitled to do that. Women fought so that we can vote. As individuals.

      Some males still think that we shouldn’t have the right to vote because we do it wrong or make choices strictly based on ourselves. It makes me uncomfortable to openly say that “I won’t support you because you didn’t do what I want.”

      We might as well be males, then.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Hey Jacqueline, I’m told you’re busily smearing me online. Cool, cool. Can’t you make your arguments without inventing excuses to attack me and FC?

  • Robin Goodfellow

    Good points. I agree with you.

  • Robin Goodfellow

    Ms. Sanchez, do you project much? How old are you? Is it possible that something other than misogyny could have provoked people’s horrified reactions to HRC? I’ll give you a hint. Not many people younger than the age of 70 vote for a candidate based on gender.

    As a social experiment, your test FAILS. You have more than one variable you did not control for. You wanted to conclude that gender alone is what made people hate HRC. There were more factors involved than gender. Trump and HRC have entirely different histories and sets of baggage. Trump is a clown, and when you mention his name, people laugh or are neutral, despite his own misoginy. HRC is MONSTER, and when you mention her name, people get scared. BOO!

    You completely missed the Big Picture. While it is true that HRC is hated, it is not because of her gender. It is because of her actions and character. Did you ask those same people who rightly said HRC is a monster what they thought of Jill Stein?

  • Robin Goodfellow

    Your post is poorly thought out, and your points are bogus. You also lack knowledge of current events. Everything Boomer said is documented in mainstream media sources like New York Times.

    On ISIS, he is referring to the fact that HRC as SoS talked Obama into deposing Qadafi. Libya fell. ISIS exploited the power vacuum. Wose, HRC as SoS funded and trained ISIS. ISIS spread and the refugee crisis is the result; 10 million displaced people. Millions being bombed thanks to HRCs choice to talk Obama into destroying Libya.

    The rest of your post is just too hopelessly wrong for me to make the effort to educate you. Please do yourself a favor and learn about current events and politics before you express any more political opinions. Posts like yours are the reason the Progressive movement is failing. Too many people self-righteous people who don’t know the most basic facts can’t resist chiming in and muddying the waters.

  • lagattamontral

    I never read Russian propaganda sites unless their trolls reference them at progressive fora, and have always called them out as reactionaries who are utterly fake leftists.

    Wasn’t the Stein vote actually rather small?

  • Independent Radical

    I wouldn’t rule out misogyny as a factor discouraging leftist men from voting for Clinton, same thing with racism being used to attack Obama, but that doesn’t make either of them particularly progressive. While they may not be directly responsible for funding ISIS, it’s only been growing stronger, because people in the middle east are angered by US interference. Instead of just attacking Trump as an individual we should be questioning the masculine reasoning behind the war on ISIS and the idea that the only way to defeat brutal violence is with more brutal violence (which isn’t to say that aggression is never necessary).

    Unfortunately, “radical feminist” has come to mean anyone who opposes the sex industry and the believes in the biological definition of womanhood. I definitely meet both of those criteria and encourage women to mobilise around these important issues, but to be radical is to have a broader analysis of the systems at the heart of these problems (capitalism, patriarchy and bourgeois democracy). Since radical politics in general have been in decline for some time, I fear that structural analysis is being lost. Radical feminists are narrowly focusing on single issues, because they don’t have the numbers or resources to more broadly critique society like they used to. This isn’t their fault and I will not rule out supporters of Clinton as radical feminists. Maybe if they become a strong movement again, they will lift their sights beyond electoral politics and not feel the need to rely on an individual political saviour.

  • David Carlton

    I don’t consider them progressives, I refer to them as the delusional Alt Left.

  • Kimmarie Huber

    A well written, and cohesive argument. Ignore the comments from people who cannot identify a valid thesis statement. The fact of Clinton’s sex is simply support, or minor premise; and perhaps could even be considered a warrant, a generally accepted idea or truism. Her claim is that Clinton lost because people failed to vote. It is a fact that the number of eligible voters who actually casted ballots was the lowest in many years. To compare demographic voting statistics based on previous races is not accurate or relevant. What is relevant is the number of people who could have prevented the election of Trump by voting, but chose to stay home. One 24 y/o I spoke to said “I didn’t think my vote counted”. WHAT? Hillary winning by 1.4 million popular votes tells the true story of the Country’s opinion of Trump, as does a review of the demographics that did vote for Trump. Shame on the “uneducated” women who were brainwashed by misogynistic men, repeating the Trump rhetoric, true or not, civil or not. The author’s premise of misogyny has 2000 years of historical support to argue that Clinton’s sex was an issue. If you disagree, give valid support for your claim, instead of using Ad Hominym fallacies against the author.

    • Megann Harvey

      Thank you for this comment. So many commenters jump on the defensive, because this article describes them to a T and they do not want to take responsibility for their complicity in the outcome of their election. They are not as progressive as they think they are.

  • Meghan Murphy


  • Bleeps3

    Fair enough. But this kid exists, and so do many others like him:

    (I’m sorry for posting the video, I’m not sure how to post just the link)

    I personally will not be gaslit about the existence of men, and probably women, like him.

  • Raysa_Lite

    I wasn’t implying that or saying that. At all.

    Maybe it’s because I understand the fear that some women feel, and maybe I am more forgiving of that then I should be.

    But I just don’t understand this attitude of attacking other women for the decision that they made. I don’t.

    And it’s not productive. It’s not productive to refuse to understand one another and unite.

    Being nasty to women for making a horrible decision is just the way that this is going to be. That’s fine. But I am not going to participate in it. But enjoy yourself, though.

  • radwonka

    MTE! Its as if they think they are above other feminists or something, I cant stand this arrogance, especially since it’s mainly build on straw men. They are the same ppl who use libfem rhetoric, and/or identity politics, for other topics so I dont get why they act as if they are the only people who politcize choices. The paternalism is SO sickening indeed. smh

  • Mike

    Blaming misogyny is a mistake. Explain how so many of theses same progressives wanted Elizabeth Warren? Why they went to Jill stein? People who don’t want to confront true flaws in the candidate clinton play the mysogyny card and it’s a cop out.

    • Robin Goodfellow

      According to the author’s logic, anybody who wanted Warren or Stein is a misogynist.

    • Alienigena

      A know nothing kleptocratic thug wins the American presidency (with no experience in politics and no evidence that he has any interest in anything publicly minded, he just exploits the loopholes in the tax system to keep more money for himself) but someone who shows herself to be publicly minded, to be interested enough in the issues enough to research them and she is labeled a criminal and targeted for violence (Trump encouraged his followers to target her). I don’t even really like her but even I feel the need to defend her. Just because someone is unlikeable in the public eye doesn’t mean they are not competent. Trump is competent at gaming the system to make money for himself and his family. I grant you he is an effective nepotist, assigning important posts to his children and son-in-law.

  • Robin Goodfellow

    Women can’t be borderline psychotic (but men can)?

    • Alienigena

      And you are the real feminist but the rest of us aren’t? In my mind’s eye see Kingzilla (metaphorically) grabbing his crotch and pumping it at us (mostly women) and yelling ‘want some of this’. You claim you are a biologist … does your education extend to other disciplines, possibly history? A lot of men (psychiatrists, husbands, officials (all sorts)) have claimed that a lot of women were crazy … because they refused to cook dinner, talked back, became depressed (depression does not equal psychosis). So calling the writer crazy or psychotic, just ’cause, is not going to lead to Kingzilla being seen as much of an influencer on this site. He is more likely to be considered a bit of a d*ck.

      “A woman who rebelled against Victorian domesticity risked being declared insane and committed to an asylum. This was usually at her husband’s or father’s request, and she generally had no right to contest or appeal.”

      • Robin Goodfellow

        Extreme reactions have made “feminism” a bad word. The misandryst copy-cat feminists in the 1960s and 1970s spouted all kinds of nonsense and insults rather than having discussions. The result is that feminism has been become the pariah of social issues.

        Kingzilla said something reasonable, that the author has some crazy ideas which I also pointed out in other comments. She insulted people who voted for anybody other than HRC. Her insults are not rational and are kind of mean.

        I’m giving zilla the benefit of the doubt and assuming “he’s” using hyperbole and not being hateful. Specifically you read into his comment something oppressive and assume he’s supporting Patriarchal practices from the Victorian era. I hope nobody under the age of 70 still looks at women that way. (I know many old men still do.) Both genders are capable of being psychotic.

        In the era of Trump, feminists need to be welcoming to the public, stop fighting each other, and work together and fight anything evil he tries to do.

        • Meghan Murphy

          Yooooo what?? “The misandryst copy-cat feminists in the 1960s and 1970s spouted all kinds of nonsense and insults rather than having discussions.”

          “Copy-cats” of whom and what, exactly?

          • Cassandra

            And he brings up Valerie Solanas and misspells her name!

            Where’s an MRA bingo card when you need one?

          • Tired feminist

            Valerie Solanas is totally a MRA card lol. I’ve never seen ANY feminist bring her up, in any situation.

    • Tired feminist

      Robin, seriously, go home.

  • Robin Goodfellow

    Thanks for your reply, and sorry for calling you a “he.” You make a good point about them being more suited to a pro-choice, pro-gay marriage branch of the Republican party. Also, like you said, nothing is ever HRC’s fault. Somebody else is always to blame. I like your purity test idea too.

    I believe HRC hijacked a large number of Progressives and Leftists. She was absolutely divisive. I fear there are too many low-information voters for the US to go forward. And with Trump in power, I fear for women’s rights among other things for the US. I’m happy that I do not live there.

  • Robin Goodfellow

    Your response doesn’t make sense. Are you agreeing with the writer that anybody who voted for Jill Stein is a misogynist? Because everybody seems to think HRC is as pure as the driven snow and that the only reason anybody could possibly be opposed to her is because they hate women, even if they voted for other female candidates.
    Anybody who can laugh at the news of another human being lynched and gleefully chortel “We came, We saw, he died” is the definition of MONSTER.

    • Bleeps3

      What responses does a woman in a group of military men reasonably have? I’d like to know. This is another talking point that keeps coming up. Hillary said this thing that proves she has no soul. Have you ever seen some of these dudes? You think they would take kindly to Hillary Clinton, who they already feel is encroaching on their turf, saying, “Let’s have some sensitivity here, boys. This was a human being”? Do you have a clue what the social protocol is in these circles, where you know, they kill ‘bad guys’ for a living, is? Do you have any idea how they feel about women??

    • Cassandra

      “Because everybody seems to think HRC is as pure as the driven snow…”

      Where did you get that? None of us here thinks she as pure as the driven snow. We just know as sure as we breathe that misogyny played a huge role in what happened.

    • Serai 1
  • Robin Goodfellow

    You must not know much about US demographics. You should realize that the aging baby boomer population is now mostly over the retirement age of 70 or so. Some within that generation fought hard for gender equality and civil rights. This generation and those that preceded them elected every male leader in the history of the US. You should also realize that younger generations tend not use gender to decide if somebody is fit or not for a job. Feminists have made a lot of progress in changing attitudes in recent decades.

    • Cassandra

      “You should also realize that younger generations tend not use gender [sic] to decide if somebody is fit or not for a job.”

      I should? I’d love to see the hard evidence — not what people “say” they do, but what they actually do. And when you speak of “younger generations” not using “gender” to decide if somebody’s fit for the job, do you mean women, too? Since when have women as a class discriminated against a male because of his sex in regard to his ability to do a high-powered job? Geez Louise, oh mischievous sprite.

  • Robin Goodfellow

    The author calls everybody who didn’t vote for HRC a misogynist but I’m the one being condescending?

  • Robin Goodfellow

    “Anybody who voted for Jill Stein is a misogynist, and if they were a woman, they are a sefl-hating misogynist.” This article was as divisive as HRC’s campaign. All it did was insult anybody who voted with their conscience.

    I’m a biologist and I know what gender and sex are, but I have no idea what you’re talking about. Men under the age of 70 don’t care whether the candidate is male or female. Feminism has made a lot of progress in recent decades, and it has gotten rid of those prejudices in younger people. it’s the old ones who overwhelmingly voted for Trump and against HRC based on gender alone.

    Feminists are going to need to stop fighting each other and work together to fight any thing bad Trump tries to do.

    • Bleeps3

      “Feminism has made a lot of progress in recent decades, and it has gotten rid of those prejudices in younger people.”


      “Feminists are going to need to…”


    • Cassandra

      “Men under the age of 70 don’t care whether the candidate is male or female.”


    • littlenoodles

      No. Anybody who voted for Jill Stein was either deluded, or thought Hillary was such a shoo-in that their ‘ideological choice’ would not affect the outcome. Anybody who voted for Stein and is comfortable with the fact that Trump ended up winning is just nuts – or else stands for nothing and was just doing the fashionable thing (and don’t think for a minute that there weren’t plenty of those).

  • Bleeps3

    Yes, nuclear war, something Trump seemed pretty excited about. I have been thinking about South Korea since he won.

  • Robin Goodfellow

    Voting for the Lessor of Two Evils is still voting for EVIL.

    People have a right to vote with their conscience.

    • Cassandra

      Okay, dude. Enjoy the Trump Years.

    • radwonka

      “People have a right to vote with their conscience.”

      You sound like a manipulative man. Typical man.

  • Bleeps3

    I was a registered Green for many years and used to hate Hillary Clinton, as a good leftist does. I have evolved my perspective. Accuse me of whatever you need to.

  • lagattamontral

    I thoroughly agree with you about American exceptionalism, though I’d call it US exceptionalism, as the Northern and Southern neighbours of the US are “Americans” too, as are the rest of the inhabitants of the Americas. Even Conservative candidates where I live and where you live would not openly call for abolishing the NHS – oh, they do a lot to hollow it out, but so do Blairites.

    And I never thought I’d come across “radical feminists” who advocate the death penalty and don’t understand that abolishing it was among the great abolitions, such as slavery, child labour, women’s eternal “minority” and tutelage, one day prostitution… and advocated by most progressive thinkers, not out of any love for criminals but because of how it coarsened society as a whole… or radical feminist gun nuts. This is a Canadian-based site – open to women and allies the world over, but there is a strange USian refusal to look at the rest of the world.

  • Pinky Tipton Espinal

    I voted for Hillary so I’m not in the group of progressives that didn’t. But I didn’t vote for her in the primary and I’ll tell you why. First off, the TPP. Then there was all the corporate speeches. Also, I had read a bit about Hillary’s role in the coupe in Honduras. There were other things too. However, I didn’t give a damn about Benghazi or her damn emails.

    However, I after she won (whether it was fair or not), I took a look at what the other choices were and decided I had better support Hillary. But if I had voted for Jill Stein or not voted it wouldn’t have been because of misogyny.

  • Cassandra

    Okay. You all showed us. Trump is awesome.

  • Cassandra

    Okay. It’s my feeling that you’re misinterpreting why I said what I said about the wall, etc. I do understand why leftists who couldn’t bring themselves to vote for her are saying. My point is that I believe it doesn’t matter; we now have a f*cking idiot in office who’s going to be 100 times worse.

  • Cassandra

    Not sure if anyone heard about the Post-it jamboree going on in NYC’s Union Square train station:

    I guess it’s a good thing and all, the Post-it thing, but I was so disheartened by how few of the Post-its mentioned women and how many of them mentioned Bernie and/or just general “bigotry.” That so many people (betcha mostly dudes!) left Bernie mentions is sort of symbolic of what Ms. Sanchez is saying here. It’s really obvious.

    (I left a naughty radfem Post-it for which I was #notallmenned IRL when a dude saw what I was writing. I was looking for the crew from Candid Camera but he was for real.)

  • Meghan Murphy


  • Tired feminist

    Indeed, Robin, it didn’t take me long to open my eyes. I just had to take a quick look at you comment history to find this:

    “There are several growing trends taht involve boycotting American Women. One is to stay single for life. With porn and the occasional hookup, who needs an American wife?

    Another is to marry foreign women. Being with foreign women is a good sanity check. It’s not you. It’s not all women. It’s only American Women who are broken. I moved to Europe and have access to foreign women.

    Some American men are getting mail order brides, but it isn’t always because he is a loser. Foreign women are more feminine and they are comfortable being feminine. Foreign women want to be treated as equals. They don’t want to be bossy like American women, and they dont want to be slaves.”

    FUCK YOU, Robin. You disgusting, misogynistic, racist, entitled piece of shit. I fear for the women you have “access” to. No one will ever buy your feigned concern about the future of feminism. Fuck right off.

  • Independent Radical

    I don’t care if her physical appearance was respectable. It was her politics and way of expressing them that were far too respectable and moderate for me, but yes misogyny does women from becoming the kinds of politicians who can really represent the masses.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Just a point of clarification: This is a Canadian website and we are generally critical of Americanized everything.

  • Tired feminist

    If we’re all so meanie what are you still doing here?

  • FakeFeminist
  • FakeFeminist

    Maybe not living in the US, you don’t realize that the US runs on a FPTP system, and that only the candidates from the two major political parties ever stood an ice cube’s chance in hell of actually getting elected. Not every dilemma in the world is a false dilemma. If people want a third-party or independent president, realistically they need electoral reform first. Until then, it’s one or the other. Go look up “Duverger’s law”.

  • Raysa_Lite

    I have a close friend here in SC. Her boyfriend that lives with her threatened her with yet more male violence if she didn’t vote for trump.

    She’s not privileged. But I refuse to say “all women who voted for trump are awful, horrible and do not deserve my support.”

    She told him she voted for trump. I don’t know if she did or not. And it doesn’t matter, really.

    Maybe she’s a hypocritical waste of space. Maybe when she needs support, I should tell her to bug off.

    Have you ever read “right wing woman” by Andrea dworkin? I’m SURROUNDED by those women. And a lot of them are scared. I see it every day. My first husband was a frightening man.

    So you, and the majority of the feminists here, apparently, can punish these women with non support or whatever because you don’t give a shit about what their lives are like, and why they make the choices that they make.

    I am ok with you thinking that I am a hypocritical woman hater. I won’t abandon women just because of the way that they voted. Some of them voted out of privilege or hate or whatever, I am sure. But a lot of them voted put of fear or a survival instinct that possibly I can’t understand.

    I’m not arrogant or ignorant enough to claim to know why every woman voted the way that they did. But I will give them the benefit of my doubt. Women deserve that from me.

    I’m done here. But please do respond to tell me how my use of the word “nasty” outs me as a misogynist. Even though I am defending women. And not for being choosy choicey special snowflakes, either.

  • Bleeps3

    I have trouble agreeing that the Clintons are full-on neocons. It’s a talking point to come out of the left, but I’ve never heard a satisfactory answer as to why the movement conservatives hate them so much if they are completely on board with said movement:

    It doesn’t much matter now, but it does worry me that people might not be paying attention to who has all the real power.

  • Cassandra

    Nah. It’s people like you who go into threads where you’re not wanted while you have the wikipedia list of fallacies open and use terms sexist terms like “schoolgirls” when addressing women that make MRAs sound like ignorant asshats.

  • Cassandra

    Okay, dude!! Geez, you might want to toughen up if you think me calling you on being an MRA is bullying and abusive. Life must be difficult for you.

  • Cassandra

    “…but as of yet, I haven’t seen anything that backs your claim.”

    MRAs and men in general never see misogyny. Of course you haven’t seen it.

  • Cassandra

    I look forward to seeing your statistics about how many female executives and CEO’s there are, worldwide. How many were added in the last year and are they making the same amount of money as the their male counterparts? And yes, democratic countries have elected female presidents. That doesn’t disprove that misogyny doesn’t exist or that it’s not an influence in elections. Talk about lack of logic.

  • Cassandra

    Angela Merkel is proof of nothing. Go back to Wikipedia and learn about using one an example as proof that something isn’t true. And nobody ever said the U.S. isn’t a backwards country; it kinda is.

  • Cassandra

    Oh, Morag, you are a hoot.

  • Cassandra


  • Cassandra

    And he called us “nasty.” He really is a parody at this point.

  • Cassandra

    “Pile of nonsense” is putting it kindly.

  • Cassandra

    Unfortunately I kind of agree with you, but this time was especially extreme, where all the little votes that don’t seem big in one group or another added up to this mess, not to mention Obama’s transgender nonsense, which I think pissed off a lot more people than are willing to admit it, but Trump doesn’t give a shit about that. I highly doubt he’ll do anything to restore Title IX. That shit makes men happy.

  • Cassandra

    Hugo is kind of a piece of shit but it’s a good warning anyway. It’s always amazing to me that so many Jewish people didn’t see the writing on the wall. I guess it’s just denial that people could hate you that much and that it could happen on such a mass scale. But I also know that at a certain point it was just too late to get out, even once people did start realizing what was happening.

  • radwonka

    Radical feminists have no influence on society and the media -for now-.

    Be an adult and stop blaming small movements. Blame your bros who werent convincing instead.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Hugo — trying to weasel his way back into public discourse.

  • Bleeps3

    I supported Bernie, with money and phone-banking. Again… you have no traction with this. I will not put everything bad on that bad old witch Hillary just because it’s a popular tradition on the left.

    • b00mer

      What are you even talking about? No traction with what? I have no idea why you even randomly popped up to talk about me “accusing” you personally of something when we had not even been having a conversation.

      Anyway I do not “put everything bad on that bad old witch Hillary”, so you can stop making up strawmen now, as if I am nothing but some brocialist handmaiden because I oppose her. This is the same kind of empty identity politics libfems engage in. Are you a libfem? I am not, I’m a radical feminist, so you will find no “traction” with identity politics with me.

      The reason I criticize her (or “put everything bad on her!!” :'( in your words) is because I refuse to support imperialism, poverty and war – whether in the form of Clinton or anyone else.

      It is not about her. It is about actions and policy, and how they coincide or conflict with my values.

      She was the Democratic candidate in this election cycle, she represented those things, I am opposed to them, thus am opposed to her.

      Quit acting like she’s this poor woman being singled out unfairly by sexists anytime she’s criticized. You want to run for president? People will criticize your record. Go figure. Radicals and progressives against war and poverty will oppose you if you are a fervent enabler of them. Declaring that in itself a blanket act of sexism cheapens the word and is a slap in the face to the women hurt and even killed by Clinton/Kerry/Obama/Hagel/Carter/etc all over the world.

  • Bleeps3

    Yes, the Greens, the left, will hopefully stop focusing so much on the Democrats and get down to the business of making themselves a viable alternative — convincing people who think Reaganism and the military (which Trump has promised to increase funding to by 200%) that socialism and peace aren’t communist plots to take away all their money.

  • Wren

    Good article. For those reasons and many more, I won’t stop flapping my mouth about my fears and hatred of Trump and his apostles. I still have the right to do that here, unless of course, I happen to star in a Broadway production of Hamilton.

    Edit: I had no idea who Hugo Schwyzer was. Just read about him. Yikes! But anyway, the point he is making in this essay is valid.

  • Meghan Murphy

    I fell for Hugo’s bs years ago. Don’t feel bad. He’s very good at selling himself.

  • Dear Prudence
    But that night in the theater two years ago, the other six brave women came up on the stage. Anabella De Leon of Guatemala pointed to Hillary Clinton, who was sitting right in the front row, and said, “I met her and my life changed.” And all weekend long, women from all over the world said the same thing:

    “I’m alive because she came to my village, put her arm around me, and had a photograph taken together.”

    “I’m alive because she went on our local TV and talked about my work, and now they’re afraid to kill me.”

    “I’m alive because she came to my country and she talked to our leaders, because I heard her speak, because I read about her.”

    I’m here today because of that, because of those stores. I didn’t know about this. I never knew any of it. And I think everybody should know. This hidden history Hillary has, the story of her parallel agenda, the shadow diplomacy unheralded, uncelebrated — careful, constant work on behalf of women and girls that she has always conducted alongside everything else a First Lady, a Senator, and now Secretary of State is obliged to do

    And it deserves to be amplified. This willingness to take it, to lead a revolution…

    This isn’t just symbolism. It’s how you change the world. These are the words of Dr. Gao Yaojie of China: “I will never forget our first meeting. She said I reminded her of her mother. And she noticed my small bound feet. I didn’t need to explain too much, and she understood completely. I could tell how much she wanted to understand what I, an 80-something year old lady, went through in China – the Cultural Revolution, uncovering the largest tainted blood scandal in China, house arrest, forced family separation. I talked about it like nothing and I joked about it, but she understood me as a person, a mother, a doctor. She knew what I really went through.”

    When Vera Stremkovskaya, a lawyer and human rights activist from Belarus met Hillary Clinton a few years ago, they took a photograph together. And she said to one of the Secretary’s colleagues, “I want that picture.” And the colleague said, “I will get you that picture as soon as possible.” And Stremkovskaya said, “I need that picture.” And the colleague said, “I promise you.” And Stremkovskaya said, “You don’t understand. That picture will be my bulletproof vest.”
    I am just profoundly moved by that. By the fact that there are women around the world who view Hillary Clinton as their bulletproof vest; by the fact that we don’t know these stories, in no small part because Clinton herself doesn’t tell them, probably fearing she would be accused of exploiting these women or actually exposing them to harm; by the fact that Clinton risks her life every day, literally wearing a bulletproof vest on many occasions, to keep campaigning against an opponent who has now repeatedly incited violence against her. 30 things Hillary did to help women and children.

    Men aren’t willing to empathize or understand “complicated” women. They will defend rapists and wife beaters but if they find a woman “unlikable” they will hold onto that hatred forever. Hating women just makes sense to them. I think it comforts them and makes them feel like they have purpose in their mediocre pointless lives.
    They are also nihilists who crave death. It really made sense in these mutants minds that Hillary is just as bad as Trump. Because they care about nothing and no one. So who really cares?

    • Bleeps3

      Just look at the different reactions to Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice. Men, even lefty men, love Colin Powell, who lied about WMD’s (and also had a private server). They want to kill Condoleezza.

      • Every1sAWinner

        I’m no republican, but I remember a terribly racist political cartoon about her — I wrote the guy to tell him it was racist and horrifying and he was very dismissive. Then I received an email from him that I guess he meant to send to someone else, or maybe he just didn’t even bother to replace the name with mine — his wife finally convinced him he was being an ass. Whatever, my point is that the misogyny on the left is possibly worse than that on the right.

    • Wren

      Goddammit we owe her a lot. I feel like we let her down. I’m so fucking depressed.

    • Serai 1

      This wasn’t hidden. It wasn’t secret. She wrote books about her work around the world. Anyone who paid attention knew these things about her. But the right wing was very successful, as usual, is sowing their destructive, hateful lies about her, and the media picked them up, and they seeped into the national conversation until people who had every reason in the world to approve of her wound up speaking of her as if she were a snake. It’s both bizarre and sad. Yes, she’s done an incredible amount of good work around the work. But there will never be enough good work to get over some people’s virulent misogyny.

  • Dear Prudence

    Hillary Clinton as a lawyer helped create laws that protected women and children and especially poor minority women and children that didn’t exist before she worked on them.
    Saint Bernard his anointed pureness holiness liberal savior is a career politician whose “work” has helped no one. He was unemployed until his early 40s. He made ends meet by writing about women wanting to be gang raped.

    • will

      “He made ends meet by writing about women wanting to be gang raped.”

      What is this in reference to? Not contradicting you, but I think this is important.

    • Benny B

      bernie sanders is a do nothing talker who never did a thing for ANYONE in the progressive movement outside of Vermont in his entire career. he made a nice speech. people liked it. then he ran for president. and gave away all those 2 dollar hopey contributions to dc consultants who made millions. if you want to blow a berniebot’s mind, show ’em the evidence, the precious white dears will cry and deny. that’s all the left has anymore. cry and deny.

  • Wren

    I’ve found that anarchists support the sex industry. Not too cool.

    • radwonka

      Ha. From my experience male anarchists are also dumb as fuck and very very misogynistic.

      • Wren

        Totally. To them it’s just about rejecting authority and has nothing to do with social change. Sex, drugs, rock and roll, extended adolescence, blah blah

  • Wren

    I had to look up MGTOW. Had no idea it existed, but I’m glad he’s sworn off women. Some woman out there dodged a bullet.

    • Cassandra

      Yes, there is such a thing as MGTOW’s. They don’t swear off women; they just swear off “Western” women who are bitter and uppity. They go for women they can buy and boss around. They think they’re depriving the world of something wonderful.

      • Wren


  • lutrislutris

    Lol can’t you fucks just GTOW already? Why are you so obsessed with us?

  • lisa5

    I could not agree more. I was a Hillary Clinton supporter and proud to be one. The hate heaped on her by people supposedly on my side was appalling.

  • will

    “And look how much room and time he took up enjoying the sound of his own voice.”

    Yes. That. Plus wasting the time of those who were generous enough to engage with him honestly.

  • b00mer

    So again, no response other than a strawman about how being opposed to Clinton means I am a Trump supporter?

    You are the reason progressivism is absolutely doomed. Trump supporters don’t depress me nearly as much as people like you do, who claim to be progressive, but defend all the same institutional racism, sexism, homophobia, and violence.

    Shall I post some footage of Libyan women dying from lack of clean water after we deliberately destroyed their civilian infrastructure? Women killed by ISIS with weapons sold to Saudi Arabia knowingly approved by HRC? News articles about the rapes and murders of women in Okinawa, and HRC’s regime change intervention to keep the military base there? How about the Honduran women murdered and raped, either following the HRC-backed coup or on route to seek asylum here (which they will be denied)? Women incarcerated, women kicked off welfare, women who lost their homes and had to turn to prostitution, due to the policies HRC campaigned for in the 90s?

    Your entire argument is we have to choose this evil instead of this evil.

    My argument is that both evils are bad. If you think HRC would have been good for women or PoC you have an extremely narrow view of who among those groups actually count as people and warrant concern.

    You go on supporting imperialism, war, and right wing economics, hypocritically claiming to be against them yet bashing anyone who actually uses their vote to oppose them.

    I have a different political strategy; I’m opposed to them, so I will continue opposing politicians who support them.

    • Wren

      OMG you’ve repeated yourself so many times that you’ve managed to render yourself inaudible. Good job.

      And yes, bashing Hillary means that you supported Trump. It’s just the math. Suck it up.

      • b00mer

        “Bashing” Hillary means – I am critiquing imperialism, war, and poverty – and those candidates who propose MORE of it.

        So why are you against Trump? Is it for fear of… oh I don’t know, imperialism, racism, war, poverty, violence against women, etc?

        So you oppose one candidate who verbally supports bad things?

        And think it’s the meaningful solution to support the candidate who DOES all the same?

        Oh yes, you got me there! Such sound logic from HRC supporters. Oppose right wingers! By supporting the other right winger! It’s the only logical plan of action! Lol.

        • Wren

          I think you are embarrassing yourself.

  • b00mer

    Well in this entire thread (and throughout the entire campaign) not a single HRC supporter has ever had a single response to any critique of her record, or future policy proposals.

    It’s either ignore it completely, or offer some red herring or strawman. Never a simple acknowledgement, that yes this was bad, yes that was immoral.

    When you offer people a candidate, and refuse to engage in any honest critique of them, AND double down on that by simply shouting “sexism!!1” anytime anyone brings up anything negative, I simply don’t know how you could expect that to be a winning strategy. It’s a very willfully ignorant and entitled mindset – everything liberals used to make fun of Fox News for, now they do with gusto.

  • radwonka

    Dont you know??? Third parties can POSSIBLYYYYYYYYY (if at least 20 millions of people vote for them yaknow, but thats NOTHING! EASY!) affect the ELECTIONS! You dont UNDERSTAND! The green party which supports the free market IS BETTER because… huh… well WHATEVER! You support DEATH OF PEOPLE! LET ME WRITE IN CAPITALS BECAUSE I HAVE NO COUNTER ARGUMENTS! WHAT I SAY IS THE TRUTH! YOU SUPPORT BOMBS! AAAAAAHHHHH!!!!

    (Just kidding, Im just making fun of them ;))

    • Wren

      LOL! I know. Thanks to the education I’ve been getting here at FC, I’ve discovered the name of their tactic is “argument from repetition.” Thanks, Fallacy Man!!

  • Meghan Murphy

    Suggesting every feminist who supported Clinton that they are liberals is gonna put a real dent in this movement, don’t you think? Surely there is room for a little more nuance here? There are a lot of radical feminists who, left with so few options, opted to support Hillary. I doubt that means they believe she is ideal by any means, but we’re talking about American politics here….

  • Tired feminist

    As someone said in some comment:


  • Witch

    The “establishment” has not been sending their jobs abroad. That’s a lie peddled by both the right and the left and one that purposely ignores reality.

    If jobs were being sent abroad, productivity would’ve decreased in the US. In reality, manufacturing and production have increased in the last decades because machines are doing these jobs, not humans.

    Those jobs are never coming back. That’s not the “establishment’s” doing. It’s the laws of economics and technological progress.

    You, for some strange reason, chose to ignore this situation and blame it on the “elites” and the “establishment”. It is so sad to me that words and expressions that used to be reserved for the conspiracy theories loonies are now considered normal and part of a sane discourse.

    You must be happy that Trump is a climate change denier though. Even more sand to bury your head in.

  • Wren

    Even I don’t wish such horrible things on women who voted for Trump. She sounds like she’s 19 and just discovered that the world is a tough place and is throwing the blame everywhere with very little actual understanding. You guys are all waaayyyy more patient than I am.

  • Every1sAWinner

    Misogyny is the reason you all “don’t like her.” There’s nothing about her that is unlikable other than whatever excuse you made up yesterday and the day before and the day before that so you could rationalize being on the wrong side of history and not having to allow an uppity woman to succeed. If you didn’t vote for Clinton, you are to blame for what’s to come. Likely they’ll come for everyone else first, but eventually they’ll come for you, too. Thanks for nothing.

  • genny

    You DO realize that Hillary won the popular vote by 2.5 million votes, right? That means she DID her job – and did it well – to get people to vote for her. Trump only “won” because of the goddamned electoral college, which has absolutely NOTHING to do with democracy.

  • genny

    Do you not get that you’re not even wanted here? Don’t let the door hit ya.

  • splashy79

    I’m with you! Have been a Hillary supporter since she was in Arkansas. So frustrating to see the misogyny that came from all sides against her. Incredible!

  • Katharine Rose

    Thank you for articulating what I’ve been unable to.

  • Mike

    Loved your article, but you failed to also highlight the equal amounts of fear within — and danger to — the LGBT community.

    • Benny B

      classic leftism-“you didn’t do something exactly as I think you should so you’re fucked up” you white upper class liberal types are the worst. go suck up to bernietrump

      • Serai 1

        Thanks for outing yourself as a wingnut bigot, troll.

  • Sue Nugent

    Thank you for this– I moved to secure pages in my support of Hilary–not for the Trumpet supporters but to avoid the daily lashings of Bernie supporters– I live right outside Seattle–I too would go places and everyone would be all friendly– then they would start spitting stuff out about Hillary– hard to listen to it all from sometimes very young new voters.
    I often enjoyed asking them for the meaning (as if I did not know) about some of their super radical political terms– they rarely knew the answer–

    • Serai 1

      I was really put off by the rank rudeness of so much of it. People seemed to lose all civility when talking about her, becoming quite personally offensive even when standing right in front of you. It was horrible. I’ve never seen such a spiteful, hateful treatment of a candidate, and the article is right in saying that the same people didn’t show even a quarter of that much venom for the guy who was talking about deporting muslims, jailing his opponent and the press, stripping liberties and rights, and starting a war because he felt like it (not to mention bragging about assaulting women and wanting to bed his own daughter). That in itself tells you their disdain had absolutely nothing to do with issues or politics or anything else. The enormous lack of logic in their treatment of the two candidates makes it clear they only cared about their own view of themselves, and nothing at all about the future of the country. Children scream and have tantrums when they can’t have what they want. Adults hold their noses and do what must be done. They refused in a fit of pique (which continues to this day, judging from the comments here – and isn’t it interesting that they’re almost all men?), thus we know which they are.

  • MD707

    Go ahead and prove how much more of a feminist Bernie is and make sure you know Clinton’s entire lifetime record of service to families and women’s groups. I love Bernie, I sent him money and gave him my vote in the primaries but I doubt you are aware of everything she has done her entire life.

  • S. Bird

    I’m not sure it’s pushing a false narrative, but I’m also not sure it’s a helpful response to the problem.

    I like Hillary very much, but the fact remains that she and the DNC failed to play the Electoral College game well, and they had the resources to do so. Also unfortunate (and kind of the key issue) is that the Republicans had a 25 year head start on smearing the candidate. Totally unfair of course, but that’s reality. A candidate with baggage is a candidate with baggage, even if that ‘baggage’ was manufactured out of whole cloth by her opponents. Which is, I’ll say again, totally unfair, but that’s the political reality. There’s an entire generation (and more) of people who have been hearing about what’s wrong with Hillary their entire lives. Progressive and regressive people alike have been hearing this crap since the 80’s, and it had an effect. Blaming people who’ve had these memes filtering into their minds forever may not be totally helpful.

    • Pisto75666

      Because heaven forfend they might have to take responsibility for the vote they cast? Yes, Hilary had baggage but, it wouldn’t have taken long to maybe use Google to see if what the Republicans were spewing was true or not.

  • Joe Shmoe

    What does “solidarity” have to do with anything? That’s juvenile thinking. You either care about specific ISSUES or you don’t.

    Why would a person reject a policy they preferred because that would put them in a position of “solidarity” with people they disagreed with on other issues? Civic participation is not a social club.

    …this attitude also plays directly into the Democratic establishment’s cynical tactic of polarizing voters against each other by emphasizing a small range of differences between them – “white workers” against brown skinned people, feminists vs. men, millenials vs. boomers.

    • KG


      I know no small number of folks who voted for HRC but that spent every minute of every day leading up to the election, not just calling her out on questionable policy, but bashing the crap out of her. This DID. NOT. HELP. And I dare say it egged on some of the staunchly ideological to vote for a totally non-viable candidate in protest.

  • Maria

    Thank you for an excellent article. I agree with you. I voted for Hillary because she is a fantastic woman and was the best candidate for us. I thought she had a thoughtful progressive platform and is eminently qualified to be president. I still do. I am disgusted by all the dishonest criticism of her and the ridiculous attacks on her personality.

  • KG

    No question that the campaign was flawed. Your response, however, makes the authors point.

  • Benny B

    the whiteness oozes from this comment. “work” haha like you ever “worked” on anything beyond your “job” people like you are why the working class is right wing in america loser

  • Lee Anne

    They claim to have voted to make a statement. All they did was give our nation and world a new fascist ruler. One who is hell bent on turning our republic into a repressive state. And it will be up to us to salvage what we can from the mess they helped to create. That is if there is anything left to salvage.

  • Meghan Murphy

    What do you mean “supporting sex workers?” Like, “supporting” women by allowing them to be exploited, legally?

  • James Lee

    Hillary Clinton VOTED in favor of the IRAQ WAR. That alone should end the conversation about her qualification to lead the Democratic Party. The fact that Democrats still put her on the top of the ticket showed how internally decayed the Party was and why it is currently in the process of disintegrating. Democrats have ENABLED the worst among them to maintain legitimacy with bogus rationalizations and justifications. That IS OVER. You have a problem with Progressives? Guess what Einstein- the Progressives are the only hope that you have of capturing a critical mass of voters in 2018 and 2020. HRC lost because she was a poor candidate and her team was TONE DEAF to the most basic electioneering traditions of the Democratic Party. She blew it twice once in 2008 and then 2016. Game over.

  • Kelcie Moseley

    Just know that every minute you spend having hurt feelings over the election and waiting to get back in the fight, someone else’s rights are being violated by his actions. Grow up and get to work. – Someone who voted for Hillary

  • Alan Russell Carter

    Bravo, Raquel.

  • Serai 1

    THE POINT ————————————————————->

    your head

  • Serai 1

    Oh, for gods’ sakes. You really have to learn when to tread lightly. That ham-handed jab at the end completely invalidated your entire chance at credibility. Sanders has never done a damn thing for women. Hillary has spent her entire career fighting for women’s rights. I’m sorry you weren’t around the day they taught “how to pay attention” at your school, but I can assure you many of us have LONG memories and remember exactly how all this came about, step by step, ever since she arrived on the national stage. So please take your Grandpa worship and your desire for a rainbow pony and go join your fellow kids around a campfire. You can tell each other how, for five minutes once, you were a star on Facebook, while all around you the world goes to hell.

  • Serai 1

    You have no idea what you’re talking about. You’ve clearly made no effort to research her record at all. She’s written whole books detailing her policies. She never stopped talking about the work she was planning on doing on all the issues your Grandpa wouldn’t shut up about. You deliberately ignored the fact that they shared 90% agreement, because you just couldn’t stomach the idea of a woman heading this country. Well, here we are, princess. Happy with your choice? Because make no mistake, you deliberately chose this. You did. Grow up and own it, and then maybe you’ll have something to say that can be taken as honest.

  • Serai 1

    And the right feels like they can be open, raging misogynists because they “love God” and are on the side of “righteousness”. What’s your point? That hatred of women runs rampant in this country and is excused with the flimsiest of pretenses? Believe me, we know. You have no reason to expend any effort in telling us anything about it.

  • Serai 1

    Thank you, little sister. We try hard. It’s just tiring to see how some young women don’t get why it’s important. The only comfort I can find is to think that it’s a mindset that can only really take hold when women aren’t facing the kind of treatment they faced when my grandmother or my mother or even I was growing up. Thinking that sticking together doesn’t matter means there’s no reason to do it, and that means things are better in many ways. But that’s all the more reason to stick together – because that progress is so fragile. All those signs saying “I can’t believe I still have to protest this” – that’s how I felt, too.

  • Serai 1
  • Serai 1
  • Serai 1

    a bunch of bitter and entitled Americanized women

  • Serai 1
  • Serai 1
  • Serai 1

    Thank you for proving every point in the article. In detail, no less!

  • pittmom

    Thank you for this. I am a 61 year old woman who made her first trip to a psychologist over the fallout from Trump’s election. While I have fear about Trump, I have anger and sadness over Clinton’s loss. It was a flat out rejection of the women of my generation. I literally can’t talk about her without weeping. I have been attacked by Bernie folks for pointing out the obvious and your article takes that up perfectly. I will be fine, I just need someone to vent to besides my poor family, but young women really f’d up as their reproductive rights are under attack and those who voted Stein can watch in horror as their environment is imperiled.