If the Grammys want to say #MeToo and #TimesUp, they have to address objectification

So long as women are objectified in the music industry, sexism will prevail.

Luis Fonsi & Daddy Yankee Perform ‘Despacito’ at the Grammys

On Sunday night, a number of women wore white roses to the Grammys in solidarity with the Time’s Up campaign. Janelle Monae introduced Kesha’s powerful performance of “Praying,” a song about fighting her abuser, Dr Luke, saying, “I am proud to stand in solidarity as not just an artist but a young woman with my fellow sisters in this room who make up the music industry.” Monae added:

“We come in peace, but we mean business. And to those who would dare try to silence us, we offer two words: ‘Time’s up.’ We say ‘Time’s up’ for pay inequality; time’s up for discrimination; time’s up for harassment of any kind. And time’s up for the abuse of power — because, you see, it’s not just going on in Hollywood; it’s not just going on in Washington. It’s right here in our industry, as well.”

The night was not totally void of messages challenging sexism, but in light of the thing that still dominates pop music, those messages sadly don’t hold much weight. That thing, of course, is objectification.

Monae’s words and Kesha’s “Praying” stood in sharp contrast to the objectifying imagery presented in Luis Fonsi and Daddy Yankee’s performance of “Despacito.” Seeing two fully clothed men flanked by barely clothed women gyrating and shaking their backsides is par for the course in the music industry. But if we really do want to end the sexist treatment of women in music, the objectification of women needs to stop.

The subtlety of the white roses mean little in an industry that has amped up its focus on sexualized female bodies in recent decades. From Robin Thicke’s “Blurred Lines” to Beyonce’s celebration of the strip club in “Partition,” the problem of sexism in the music industry extends beyond unequal representation (indeed, women won only 11 of the total 84 Grammys given out this year) and the sexual harassment and abuse that plagues women everywhere, including in music.

The great irony of the music industry is that women’s bodies are used for profit — to sell women and men’s music, alike — but the actual females who inhabit those bodies are still incredibly marginalized in the industry. Lady Gaga, Kesha, and Lana Del Rey were nominated for Best Pop Vocal Album this year, but the Grammy went to the most boring man alive, Ed Sheeran. To be fair, I think most pop music is painfully dull, but somehow men still dominate, despite their lack of gold bikinis and pole dancing abilities.

A study led by Stacey L. Smith, an associate professor at the University of Southern California and the founder of its Annenberg Inclusion Initiative, looked at the top 600 songs from 2012 to 2017, and found that only 22.4 per cent of the 1,239 performing artists were women. Beyond that, only 12.3 per cent of the 2,767 songwriters credited on those songs were women, and Ben Sisiro at The New York Times notes that female producers make up only two percent in a subset of 300 songs across this same period. Out of the 899 people who have been nominated for the last six Grammy ceremonies, 9.3 per cent were women.

That we are watching practically naked women “enhance” men’s performances at what already is a celebration of male supremacy only goes to show how far we have to go. What is the purpose of all of this, really, if we continue to accept women as props and commodities — worthless unless they are turning men on?

If we get back to the root of this all, we must understand that women are treated as less than in large part because they have been reduced to tools for men. They exist to reproduce for men, to care for men as wives, to provide sexual pleasure for men, and to sell products for men. When we pose naked or near-naked women alongside men, it is to enforce the powerful status of those men. Those men profit from those women’s bodies (which are interchangeable — just bodies, after all) and status as sex objects. Transfer this idea to the #MeToo movement, which has been calling out men almost daily and holding them to account for treating women exactly as they have been told to by pop culture, the sex trade, and of course the music industry.

It’s not just representation that we need. It’s not just the naming and shaming of abusive men. It’s not just powerful performances. So long as arenas like the music industry continue to represent women as sexualized objects, our culture will never succeed in confronting issues like sexual harassment and rape. So long as we glorify strip clubs — places that men go so they don’t have to treat women as full human beings, places where they are told, “Yes, these women are here for you” — we will continue to replicate the same dynamics that led women to experience their many #MeToo moments. This imagery doesn’t just sell music, it sells misogyny. Real accountability therefore demands we move beyond individual men, and towards a cultural shift.

Meghan Murphy
Meghan Murphy

Founder & Editor

Meghan Murphy is a freelance writer and journalist. She has been podcasting and writing about feminism since 2010 and has published work in numerous national and international publications, including New Statesman, Vice, Al Jazeera, The Globe and Mail, I-D, Truthdig, and more. Meghan completed a Masters degree in the department of Gender, Sexuality and Women’s Studies at Simon Fraser University in 2012 and lives in Vancouver, B.C. with her dog.

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  • Ada


  • fragglerock

    Yes, Dammit! This is absolutely a societal problem. F*ck the music industry and ALL of mainstream media–the real “blurred lines” are between it and porn. The difference between porn and mainstream movies, music videos, and magazines are slim-to-NOTHING. Porn has been slowly seeping into and saturating mainstream media for decades; so much so that the two are nearly indistinguishable. Abusers don’t have to waste their energy grooming girls for porn/more abuse, they just sit back while girls open Teen Vogue and learn about how to make themselves better objects for consumption. That’s why it’s so easy for so much of the general public to defend porn–they’re already consumers.

    • Yes, yes and thrice yes!

    • Jenny Addison

      Actually, teen vogue is pretty relevant and empowering lately. You should check it out. Now Cosmo, they’ve still got a long way to go.

    • Topazthecat

      Everything you and Meghan said is so unfortunately true. And one of the many effects of pornography that has been found since the 1980’s,is it desensitizes viewers including female viewers,what was once seen as sick,disgusting,degrading, etc when they first saw it,comes to be now seen as normal and acceptable the more they see it,and the more it’s presented as normal and acceptable both inside and outside of the pornography and since it was so unjustly put into millions of homes on the internet which never should have happened and was the worst thing to happen.

    • Hanakai

      Yes, this is so. Modern popular culture nowadays is just porn and the music/porn industry is one of biggest purveyors of the idea that women are merely sex objects. The sports industry does the same, with the athletes and heroes being big males and women being scantily-clad sideline cheerleaders applauding the penis people.

      Before the millennial era, female performers actually wore real clothing instead of stripper garb, and could read music and play instruments. Now, with AutoTune and digital signal processing, musical talent is subordinate to the willing to bare one’s derriere and prance about in stripper garb. Janis Ian, Laura Nyro, Judy Collins, Joni Mitchell, Joan Baez, Bonnie Raitt, Sarah McLachlan, Carole King, Odetta, Aretha, Ella Fitzgerald, Joan Armatrading, Ann & Nancy Wilson. Then what happened?

      I wonder what lessons and messages Miley Cyrus thinks she is sending to girls and tweens when she sits down on stage wearing the teeniest bikini bottoms with her legs way up in the air. Or what is Nicki Minaj saying to the young when on the cover of the album Anaconda her nearly naked ass is featured.

      These things go on in the degenerate stage of empire and the age of Kali Yuga.

  • Redpeachmoon

    Thank you Meghan.
    As always, you call it.

  • Zeljka Pajc-Muharemovic

    Great article. I agree with argument on women’s nudity and thought the same way as author but on performance of Bruno Mars where he is dressed up like he is going on a artic expedition and that female rapper Cardi B (never heard of her before :-)) was half naked 🙂 Bunch of hypocrites ….

  • Liz

    I have had a good laugh over the past couple days reading all the wailing about JayZ not winning among the same libfems who are supporting #MeToo and #TimesUp.

    • Wren

      Honestly, JayZ didn’t win cause he cheated on Queen Bey. Serves him right.

  • GerryJCapone

    The disconnect between what the sex assault disclosures shout, scream, prove, make obvious… and a rape culture which barely takes note, if it does at all, is what’s so astounding.

    Is it post-modernism, trans, or cyberspace that makes men and the male influence so goddam dense that they cannot conjure forth even a slight connection between Me-Too and their own lives, and their own rape culture. Has the music scene changed, have movies changed, have ads changed, have newspapers changed, have the networks changed, have late night comedy shows changed… No, they have refused to budge one inch from the sexist culture that they map out and promote.

    Murphy is right. Headlines do not a movement make. And headlines may serve to create scandals but not justice.

  • Kathy Marshall

    Really great article… an entire paradigm shift needs to happen with men and women to change this. Women need to stop being objectified and men need to shop objectifying them. It takes two. I am turning 60 this month and have seen a lot in my lifetime.. it would be really nice to be able to watch any award show where everyone is respected for being a human being and not a sex object. Time to raise our consciousness.

  • Jenny Addison

    I think the easiest way to even this out is to make sure for every square inch of female flesh exposed, an equal amount of male flesh must also be exposed. Show of male bodies just as much. Bodies are amazing, and sexy and we like looking at them, but we should be balancing it out. So, boys, take your tops off!

    • Safa

      You are absolutely right! Look how covered up the mens are. They are such “prudes” and appear to be “uptight” about being sexy. They have the right to choose to be sexy and they don’t. I wonder why? Maybe because exposing one’s almost naked body in public makes a person vulnerable. They could be open to criticism and judgement. Come on fellas, let’s see the stretch marks and flab.

  • Christian Christian

    A woman has the right to choose to be sexy. Whether she is objectified or harassed is on the abuser and not her. If you are saying the awards objectified women you would have to show that a woman was forced to dress provocatively on stage.

    • Meghan Murphy

      Objectification isn’t dependent on force… Women in porn are still objectified regardless of their ‘choice’ to participate in pornography.

    • Cassandra

      Let me guess, you’re a dude, right? Why aren’t men “choosing” to be sexy this way?

    • FierceMild

      Being “sexy” for women means being naked and/or gyrating as if in the midst of penetrative sex. Being “sexy” for men is walking around in a suit or speaking in a deep voice. Spot the trouble yet? No? That’s because you, along with the rest of the culture, cannot imagine a state of being “sexy” for women that isn’t objectification.

      • Claudia Manion

        That’s perfect! Can I quote this please?

    • Wren

      In a society that values us only for our fuckability, what choice do women have??

  • Zoë Lafantaisie

    Well presented – this is a very important area to tackle.

  • akzlight

    So well written, thank you.

  • Virginia Howard

    That twerking choreography is schlock! All of that muscular energy going into flipping their booty, over and over, bah. Women dancers with that kind of strength should be tossing men over their shoulders, like the great Louise Lecavalier: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9ls8nIfuTQ

  • Meghan Murphy

    This is such standard imagery, though — the fully clothed men flanked by practically naked women. Celebrity or non-celebrity, the imagery is the same.

  • Grant

    Great article highlighting the obvious duality of the industry that is generally over looked. The lesson is we need to stop taking seriously any moral or ethical statements by music, movie or sports stars who jump on any bandwagon that makes them look good in the public eye.

  • Cassandra

    It’s too overwhelming and for this to truly end would mean the implosion of the economy/capitalism. I know you know this but sometimes it’s worth stating the obvious for anyone who may not understand why it’s so hard to fight.

    • Angie Gargano

      I know this is an obvious point, but are there any links or resources on this, that I can access for research?

  • M. Zoidberg

    The “power” you speak of that women (not all women, just the few who can uphold the constant goal-post moving beauty standards set up by men) have is what — the power to give men boners? How far does that usually carry women, this mystical boner giving power?

  • Wren

    So to protest the conservative agenda of Puerto Rico, women need to be nearly naked props? Isn’t that just a spin on the good old madonna/whore dichotomy? Can’t women just be talented human beings deserving of respect??

  • Vajra Ma

    Take action: Women in the audience(s) stand up in solidarity, turn your backs to the stage. #here’smyback

  • Meghan Murphy

    My argument is not attached to Puerto Rico… It’s attached to pop music and the music industry more broadly. I also do not respect the Miss Universe organization/competition. It… objectifies women…

  • Jaz

    I’m a Dominican married to a Puerto Rican. I have many Puerto Rican friends and family. Most of us do not like to be objectified. We can dance our Salsa, Merengue, or any other Latin music without looking like putas. When I saw Miss Universe I felt she was degrading herself.

  • Meghan Murphy

    I don’t think you understand how objectification works, Leo. A woman is not a ‘slut’ because of the clothes she wears. Indeed, feminists reject the notion of ‘slut’ entirely. Objectification is about the male gaze — about cutting women up into pieces, focusing on sexualized body parts, performing for the male gaze to titillate. Can you explain why men in music videos most often are permitted to be fully clothed while near-nude (or fully nude, in the case of Blurred Lines) women dance around them or are posed around them on cars and whatnot as props? It is not *just* about what women wear, as I believe it is possible for women to be nude without being objectified (it’s just rare and difficult, in this culture/patriarchy), but indeed it is about the sexualization and the focus on sexualized body parts, on women’s fuckability, the pornographic imagery we see so often in music videos, etc.

  • Meghan Murphy

    “Yet you chose the Puerto Ricans to sustain your argument.” No I didn’t. I also referenced Robin Thicke and Beyonce. There are about a billion examples to choose from in the industry, many of which I have written about numerous times. In this case the example in question happened to include Puerto Ricans. Criticizing objectification and the corporation that is Miss Universe does not equate to ‘not respecting’ an individual woman.

  • Hanakai

    Come on, get real. Puerto Rican women face a rising tode of violence against women and one of the world’s worst rates of intimate partner violence in the world. Puerto Rico also has a high crime rate, with horrifying rates of murder, rape and sexual violence.

    Obviously dancing around while dressed like strippers has not empowered or liberated Puerto Rican women, who still suffer disproportionate rates of poverty, violence, rape and murder.

  • Ugh. I was reminded of James Franco’s charade at the Golden Globes. Insensitive. Uncaring. Apathetic. Selfish. Toxic. Hypocritical. I always have this urge to puke out of extreme revulsion and anger every time I think of how obnoxious and insidious the patriarchy is. Every thing is always at women’s expense. Almost-naked women in music videos/misogynistic, sexist, rape-promoting music lyrics/sexually-predatory music managers and producers/few female singers/music artists/producers – in every industry women are being oppressed, commodified, and sexually preyed upon. Porn and prostitution are staunchly defended by the patriarchy for its mollifying effect on their perceived sexual dominance, but, women who had worked in these industries are treated like dirty trash later on. Disgusting hypocritical dickheads.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Literally no one here has argued that ‘how we dress defines how we are.’

  • Meghan Murphy

    lol. “Females who bear signs of being able to successfully produce children” = thin, hairless, women with plastic surgery, in gold bikinis and stilettos?

  • Chad Johnson

    If you look at the whole business of Cabaret style entertainers, they all have dancers scantily dressed and literally being accessories to the performance of the artist, like Pink or Ke$ha or Beyonce. Yes these two guys are cheese balls and they are going for an uber-sexual vibe, but that’s their act, and those dancers tried out for the gig. There’s obviously an audience for that stuff since the whole world loves them (except me). There are some sexy guy dancers accessorizing Britney Spears and Madonna too. I think if there’s any time objectifying one’s body is appropriate, it’s through performance, and especially dance. Believe me, I hate watching this too. I just think everyone is a consenting adult in that performance. It’s a terrible, played out, classless performance, but they seem happy doing it. Most importantly, no women were abused in the making of that spectacle.

  • -Jane Don’t-

    Thank you! I actually try to down play how I look…As in, I don’t want to dress up – even if I want to b/c it makes me feel creative as I’m doing it, but I hate the leers & comments from men. It’s ridiculous. I’m a petite gal with short hair & had some random dude tell me I look like GI Jane earlier last night. No offense in that regards by any means (in reference to hair, implications of women w/short hair only like other gals) but his demeanor creeped me out. That’s the only reason why I was a bit snarky towards him. I’m just glad he got the vibe that I basically hated him. Lol

  • will

    You are conflating the expression of sexual and heart energies in movement with being reduced to a disposable/replaceable fuck toy. The criticism is not of movement expressions that include and embody desire, it’s of the placement of women in a particular [commercialized neoliberal capitalist] context that debases us.

  • will
  • will

    “The Caribbean is a relatively conservative space, and dressing and dancing in the way you see on stage is not just an issue of scantily-clad bailerinas, but also a statement of the anti-traditional elements of Reggaeton”

    Fox News is also a very conservative space and yet that broadcaster regularly displays pornified images of women at every opportunity. They also hire women that perform a homogenous barbie-doll look. Funny how the two seem to go hand in hand, isn’t it?

  • will

    I would love to see young women FREELY expressing THEIR sexuality. Sadly, what I see, and what you creepily are championing, is young women performing the roles defined for them by porn culture, which has nothing whatsoever to do with their own pleasure and their own self-expression.

  • Omzig Online

    “*Agency*!” Ha! That’s rich. Always gotta think about that sweet, sweet *agency.*

    Seriously, though, you asked a number of questions about the dancers’ pay, costume choice, and industry flexibility. The answer to each of those questions is probably ‘no.’ If the #metoo movement is any indication, it is fairly obvious that women in the entertainment industry have very little *agency* compared to their male counterparts.

    Below is a feminist bingo card. So far, you’ve gotten at least 3 or 4 squares as far as cliche arguments go. I think we should definitely add a square that says “B-b-but what about women’s AGENCY!”


    • Leo Edward

      Well, I can’t argue that, Omzig. I’m going to have to drop this lifelong pretense I’ve put on regarding caring for women’s equality.

  • PDX_listener

    Ummm… I seem to notice a lot of solo female performers wearing pretty skimpy outfits.

    Sex sells? Knowingly letting yourself be objectified? Freedom of expression? Double standard?

  • Velma Gonzalez Rivera

    I wonder if Despacito is the only one with almost naked dancers? What about Lady Gaga, Beyonce, Miley Cirus, ect. almost all lady singers so high rated in the industry. Or does it have to be really because it is in spanish sung by latin puertorican singers? I agree if it applies to everybody.

  • Meghan Murphy

    You got it!

  • Meghan Murphy

    Don’t derail, Leo. The point is that men don’t get to dictate feminism. This is not an ‘obnoxious and weird’ thing to say. This is a women’s movement. Also, I didn’t invent these ideas out of nowhere! My analysis comes from a long history of feminist activism and theory.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Those Carl’s Jr ads were AWFUL.

  • Meghan Murphy


  • Wren

    I don’t get what you mean. Can you give more detail?

    • Wren

      Hey you’re using the same name as me, but you’re not me. I write here at FC on the regular, fyi.

  • Meghan Murphy

    This article has nothing to do with Zuleyka. It is a critique of the music industry and the sexualization and objectification the music industry promotes/uses to profit. It is about how women are represented in pop music and has nothing to do with the individual woman who happens to have been *one* of the women in this *one* particular performance.

  • Leo Edward

    Not justifying at all. Answering how such longstanding objectification is persisting, and how women and men together need to communicate well to continue towards the goal of equality and women’s agency.

    • TwinMamaManly

      Women do communicate, men pontificate – they are generally incapable of listening (not just hearing, or “waiting to talk” listening).

  • Elmer Fenderpuddy

    “top 600 songs from 2012 to 2017, and found that only 22.4 per cent of the 1,239 performing artists were women. Beyond that, only 12.3 per cent of the 2,767 songwriters credited on those songs were women, and Ben Sisiro at The New York Times notes that female producers make up only two percent in a subset of 300 songs across this same period.”

    This is a great observation as it kinda demonstrates the numbers behind it all; male producers 98%, male songwriters 87.7% and male performers 77.6%. The industry is male controlled, and the female contributions only increase down the line where power is diminished. And even then, female performers and songwriters are often steered by men who in turn take their piece of that musical pie.

  • Alienigena

    If you want to be involved in the humanist movement get involved. Feminism is not humanism. The idea that men should have an active role in the feminist movement is counterintuitive. This is a movement about the oppression, status, well-being, and furtherance of biological females. It is not a movement about men who want to lecture women about what they really want and deserve. It is not about men (MtTs) who identify as women. It is a movement about biological females who are concerned with the well being of women locally and world-wide. Allies are welcome of course but they should not be in leadership roles. Why don’t you try reading some of the headlines on the “What’s New” section of this website to get a rudimentary understanding of the issues that women and girls face just being born female (if they are allowed to be born at all due to sex-selective abortion). There are very specific dangers that biological females face from birth (and prior to it really) that are not faced by males. Quit trying to imply that radical feminists are the ones name-calling. They likely don’t have the time or interest in your MRA issues to even engage with you most of the time, I don’t. You know what is delusional – denying the reality of biological sex. It is like climate science denial. It is science denial. I think any sane woman would object if you tried to tell her that she couldn’t appear in public when pregnant or menstruating (less obvious albeit status) to MtTs. That is the kind of nonsense coming from trans activists.


    • Leo Edward

      What? Trans? Huh?

    • Leo Edward

      Well, I can’t argue that, Alienigina. I’m going to have to drop this lifelong pretense I’ve put on regarding caring for women’s equality.

  • Meghan Murphy

    lol. I mean, it’s a great example of objectification at this year’s Grammys. But again, it isn’t about *her* as an individual. It’s about the imagery/message.

  • Meghan Murphy

    I don’t believe any man should self-identify as a feminist. But yes, I believe men should support the feminist movement. That does not mean they should lead or dictate that movement… Men can be allies, of course.

    • Leo Edward

      Well, I can’t argue that, Meghan. I’m going to have to drop this lifelong pretense I’ve put on regarding caring for women’s equality, and arguing vigorously for it. That makes people feel like I am leading or dictating a whole movement. I was thinking of following your blog, but I wasn’t born the right sex to fully appreciate it.

      I will retreat to being the change I want to see in the world. I raised two daughters who don’t give a fuck what society expects of them, who are strong, self-assured, intelligent, capable, successful, loving and caring people. One is a university lecturer in science with a doctorate and an Olympic level boxing career. The other is a musician and dancer who is completing a science degree, on her way to doing whatever she wants. My three sons are loving, caring and respectful men.

      I’m sure the feminist movement will continue the struggle just fine without me and the other men. I wish you all good luck.

  • Leo Edward

    Actually, Wren, you’re wrong. This was a public article posted on Facebook meant to draw attention of all people to the fundamental societal problem of using the female form in any capacity to generate income, as that income was inherently earned on the male gaze’s objectification of the female form.

    Comments and discussion were invited, and however long it seems to be taking me to realize it, it is quite apparent that comments and discussion are only welcome from individuals of a particular sex, who view complex issues from a homogenous point of view.

    Somebody on another comment asserted that people on this thread do not name call. I guess they meant people who use their real names.

    • Evets

      Dude! You don’t get to make your comments in a vacuum! If you can’t welcome a little healthy debate, especially when you’re clueless to the counterarguments being made and obviously losing, then maybe you shouldn’t say anything at all.

      By the way, I’m a man posting here on FC and I’m not alone, other men post here as well. The difference between you and me is that I strive to listen and hope to learn from this place and, at the very least, try to contribute worthwhile and/or supportive discourse. I don’t come here just to shout a bunch of goosestepping liberal nonsense about “agency” and “slut shaming” and other PC buzzwords. As I’ve said in several other comments to you, maybe you should just shut up and listen for a change instead of desperately clinging to your male-socialized claptrap and virtue signalling jargon.

  • lol I’m loving all these clever and funny responses. Thanks, sister/s!

    @Plain Speaker, time to wake up from your delusion!

  • Can’tUnseeIt

    “We will always be objectified if we choose to objectify ourselves!”
    Enid, I think we will be objectified, as we have been always, any way. I think the point is that women have so few choices in many industries. If there are only two options, such as do it or lose out, that isn’t really a choice. And if men are calling all the shots, framing everything, where does choice enter into the picture?

  • marv

    Women at the Grannies have no more agency to de-objectify themselves, as women in medieval times to be lesbian and/or anti-marriage. By concentrating on agency, Leo Edward brushes aside patriarchal determinants of choice as much as liberals and conservatives do.

  • marv

    You seem like the type to give direction to Black Live Matters too as a white man.

  • marv

    You sound as though you have a messiah complex. Men don’t bring equality to women. That kind of sexist feminism should be abandoned.

  • marv

    Still preaching agency gospel disconnected from social milieu.

  • marv

    In your case it would be misplaining.

  • Claudia Manion

    All of the subcultures have merged into the mainstream pornified view of women now. It’s very depressing. Goddess help you if you point it out!

    • Robert Gonzalez

      You put into words what I often try to express. That’s exactly what has happened.

  • Spike Robinson

    Exactly. Thanks for saying that. You want to shield them and steer them away from these messages and give the counter messages, give the rebuttal, that their value doesn’t derive from catering to male gaze. It’s kind of my worst nightmare that they would grow up internalising that belief, even partly. And I don’t know whether it’s better to challenge the messages or ignore them, whether it’s best not or make a big deal about it, and just try to live a life that models different values than that, better values. Don’t know. 🙁

  • Spike Robinson

    We only ever watch on-demand stuff, no commercials (ever), all children’s content. Even then it’s variable. I had to steer them away from the Barbie show. I wasn’t sure how to do that, so I just stated why I didn’t think it’s was right, and let them choose. No point dictating, that’s wrong too and also doesn’t work. But I’m secretly delighted that their favourite show is “Ronja the Robber’s Daughter” which is the best and most feminist children’s series I’ve ever seen.
    But when we go to the movies it’s gross because they get mainstream commercials on a giant screen and the shock is palpable. 🙁

    • Blazing Fire

      It’s great to hear about your daughters choosing a good, sane, level-headed show! This is how any little girl would grow if she is NOT force-fed & stifled with the unhealthy, abnormal (has become “normal” now) content that is just everywhere, including many of the “children’s programs”.
      In the pre-television era, the people with warped minds had access only to children in their own family or close friends’ families & could spoil only some of those kids (sickos were there earlier too – just that they were much fewer in number & were isolated without any lobby or community for themselves, and were kept down by the rest – I know because in my great grandmom’s village, there was a sicko who had “helped” a 10 year old girl – who didn’t even know what exactly marriage is – to elope! But they couldn’t ruin more than a couple of vulnerable kids since they didn’t have much reach). But now, they have their own groups, and support each other & lobby for their perverse wishes, AND have infiltrated into every mass-communication area and have a very very wide reach – in fact there is no place they can’t reach now. So, giving kids a normal childhood needs a whole lot of watchfulness & care. Girls are disproportionately damaged all thanks to the way they are portrayed in just about every movie or tv show (even a “strong” female character would act like a total nut half the time). But if they do have that normal, natural childhood, they would for sure grow into sane, smart, level-headed, self-respecting women. Good that you are creating a small oasis for your daughters amidst the current toxic cesspool! It certainly makes way for a healthy, bright future for them!

  • Evets

    Oh, yes, “Anglo-Saxons” are such prudes! Just look at the traditional Victorian garb that people like Madonna or Lady Gaga or Miley Cyrus wear on a regular basis and your point is proven.

    • Anon

      Madonna and Lady Gaga are Italian.

  • T. Lindfield

    I agree!

  • T. Lindfield

    Thank YOU FOR THIS ARTICLE!!! I am sooo glad people are pointing this out!

  • Alienigena

    I am generally not a fan of popular music of any kind. But the singer in the Canadian group Rough Trade, Carol Pope, always impressed me. She projected a very powerful, no-nonsense image, like she could take men out if she needed to.


  • Zoë Lafantaisie

    OMG – that’s genius AND hilarious!! Thanks for the tvbgone info!

  • marciadisqus

    Could it be possible that women have forgotten the true power of their own sacredness that has led to the level of objectification, misogyny and distortion in relationships that we see today in media and society?

    • Hanakai

      Oh, give me a break from mindless New Age twaddle. If anyone has forgotten women’s sacredness, it is the men, the men who beat, murder, abuse, exploit, rape, underpay, denigrate, prostitute women.

      Your adherence to mindless New Age propaganda has blinded you to your own rampant misogyny, because here you are blaming women for their own oppression, because under your cosmology, if only women would remember their sacred power, they would not be oppressed. The misogyny, and the rape and oppression of women have been going on for millennia, since the dawn of the patriarchy. Women forgetting the power of their own sacredness is NOT the cause of unbiquitous male violence against women, children, animals and the planet.

      Whatever institution educated you should give your parents a refund, because you speak illogical uneducated twaddly nonsense.

  • Veronica Viramontes

    Except the own woman when her “evil temptress body” makes a man rape her and possibly kill her if she ignores his advances….SMH

  • Veronica Viramontes

    YES…like in the movie Hunchback of Notre Dame(which has some very adult themes for a kids movie): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3NoDEu7kpg

  • Veronica Viramontes

    I try to not look beautiful…wear sweatpants don’t brush my crazy ass hair…and dudes would still be hitting on me at the train station…like WHYYY just let me live my life dude.

  • Veronica Viramontes

    I just want to say your comment was beautiful and this world needs more men like you! Seriously you should coach teen boys on how to be awesome men or something…I applaud you

  • Meghan Murphy

    No one’s stopping you…?

  • Angelique Nolan

    Funny that they think a sensible reaction to objectification is a protest, but if women do that we are bra burning crazies. I used to think men were clueless, but seeing how accurate, definite and immediate their responses are too slights of any kind or any imbalance no matter how slight I can’t believe it’s not entirely intentional.

  • Angie Gargano

    It was lost, when the www was born, which opened the flood gates to Internet porn.

  • Angie Gargano

    The “choice” the current culture gives young girls growing up, is between the pressure of being forced to sexualize themselves in order to be accepted by their peers, both male and female, and being rendered invisible, being ignored, and being socially rejected.
    Is it any wonder why these younger female artists fall into to this trap so easily? They’ve been given this message all their life, only now it’s reinforced with money. The more they are willing to debase themselves, the more popular they become, and the more records they sell.
    It’s insidiously destructive and sickening. I blame the porn industry for this. They’ve normalized and solidified objectification of women and are perpetuating blatant misogyny and reinforcing sexism.

  • Hanakai

    So, you are an exhibitionist and you like the idea of men ogling your body and thinking of you as their personal fuck object. Bully for you. Just don’t get any ideas that your getting attention by showing your flesh is advancing the cause of womankind.

  • FierceMild

    Will you please point me to the profession/country/time/set of personal choices by which my life will be untouched by the rampant objectification of women?

  • FierceMild

    We never needed men except when men manufactured that need by brute force.

  • Audrey Black

    There it goes again, the choice argument. How drab. Isn’t it so pathetic how many males come in here talking about choice while making it abundantly clear that they have 4 brain cells and can’t think past their own scalp or read more than the front of their Cheetos bag?

    It’s almost like they come in here just to insert their terrible, unfounded opinions without actually being familiar with radical feminism and what it stands for. Hmm…

  • Meghan Murphy

    Feminism is a political movement aimed at liberating women from male supremacy. Men can certainly be allies in this movement and there are many men I view as such. But I don’t think it’s appropriate for men to go around announcing they are ‘feminist,’ no. This is a ‘show don’t tell’ kind of situation imo.

  • Meghan Murphy

    I mean, sure, but I don’t think the point is what you call yourself. I think the point is to support women’s liberation in terms of action/behaviour.

  • kfwkfw

    So true…sickening

  • kfwkfw


  • kfwkfw

    Great points

  • Riley M

    “Do you think the pop-industry forces women like Nikki Minaj,Beyonce,Rihanna,Fergie,Miley,etc to dance half-naked on stage?”

    Yes, they totally do. Plenty of female musicians have talked about being pressured to be more sexy, told they won’t get a deal unless they lose weight, show more skin, etc.
    Plenty of actresses have been pressured into nude scenes they didn’t want to do or had to lose weight just to get a role for which skinniness and nudity had nothing to do with the character or plot. Although a small minority of women can get big contracts without pushing a sexy image, for many women they know that they’ll never get one without playing that game.

  • Meghan Murphy

    What “whole discussion felt like an indictment against Puerto Rican men”? Clearly the article had nothing to do with Puerto Rican men.

  • marv

    “People look at the embarrassing epidemic of male violence on the island of Puerto Rico and blame it on Patriarchy, rather than it’s status as a colony, and the fact that unemployment for young males is sky-high. So much that they turn to lives of crime, because being part of gangs gives them purpose. That situation sounds awfully familiar to the what young African-American males have had to endure since the 1980’s.”

    The Left blames capitalism for male violence, and anti-racists attribute it to white dominance. It’s peculiar why working class women and women of colour aren’t systemically violent towards men in their groups and up, in return.

    In truth economic and race classes over the world were instituted by men. Subordinated men in the male hierarchy point at classes above them for causing violence against women because they don’t want to admit responsibility. Better to kick and rape a woman then blame it on the bosses.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Ah ok gotcha. Thanks for the clarification.

  • Liz

    Are you a women?

  • marv

    Women are objectified in every career. Workers can’t escape capitalism and women can’t avoid male power. It’s elementary.

  • HellBlazer

    then why is it that all these popstars like beyonce,nikki minaj,miley cyrus,iggy azalea,rihanna,britney spears,lady gaga,etc claim they make these music videos in the name of ’empowerment’ and ‘self-expression’…

    • marv

      Social conditioning, more fame and riches, denial…

  • MotherBear84

    Thank you!

  • kfwkfw

    Thanks for your insight!

  • kfwkfw

    “are not forced into it at gunpoint or like kidnapped sex slaves on the black market”

    This is a low standard for women if anything less than this is totally cool, equal, and *empowered* employment. There’s coercion, there’s pressure, there’s the fact that other jobs for women pay far less than the jobs which cater to men’s dicks. Put yourself in a woman’s shoes. As a man you don’t need to stoop to the levels that you feel are appropriate for women and you know this. Is that equal? Is that fair? It’s not fair, so why are you defending it?

  • MsBAF

    Thank you for this article!

  • Meghan Murphy

    Framing women’s sexuality and beauty as ‘weapons’ strikes me as sexist in numerous ways… What is different about ‘women’s sexuality and beauty’ vs men’s? Men put ‘women’s sexuality and beauty’ on a fake pedestal in order to pretend as though women have power that they don’t have. “Beauty” is not power. And the fact that men think of women’s “power” as primarily rooted in “sexuality” and “beauty” is objectifying. You are thinking of women as things that exist FOR men — to be looked at and fucked. Beyond that, a weapon is a thing that can hurt or kill. I’m sure you believe it is very romantic to discuss ‘women’s sexuality and beauty’ in those terms, but ‘women’s sexuality and beauty’ does not hurt or kill. Not literally.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Women are not stalked and murdered because they are beautiful good god. They are stalked and murdered because men are socialized to treat women as things that exist for their use and abuse, and because male violence is normalized and sexualized.

  • Liz

    You’re bloody dense.

  • Meghan Murphy

    If you look at porn and BDSM, you will see very clearly that male violence against women *has* been normalized and sexualized… Do you watch porn?

    • James Dosher

      Ms. Murphy, I not only watch porn, I write it. I’ve conversed with several people in the BDSM lifestyle as a matter of research for what I do. In the same way I’ve talked to transgender folk and lesbians to get their input to make what I do more realistic and less masturbatory. I’ve talked to horse-archery clubs and female fighting groups for their input as well.

      As for porn and the normalization of sexualized violence ~ I’m not convinced. If anything, men are retreating into online porn instead of interacting with real women at all, theoretically making women safer.

      Will some men look at porn and think the real world should (or does) work that way? Yes, but there have always been delusional fools willing to advance some reason for their destructive fantasies.

      Likewise, men are more aware today then ever that violence against women will get them in big trouble. Yes, it still happens. Yes, there are some horrible guys out there. To say sexual violence against women is ‘normalized’ would mean it is acceptable at some level … and as far as I can see, it isn’t.

      Is violence sexualized … yep. Is now and has been for a long, long time. I’m unsure how physical confrontations and sex became cross-wired in the human brain, but it has and it goes both ways. Women going after the ‘bad boys’ isn’t just a meme after all.

      I had this wonderful friend in High School who kept running into those kind of buzz-saw relationships. It took me years to understand the complex psychology behind that kind of decision-making. It isn’t as if women are stupid, or even blind to their choices.

      In a similar way, men don’t commit violence against women because they are stupid, or think such a thing has been ‘normalized’. Often they will create convenient excuses for themselves and others for the evil they do … but it isn’t like the men in larger society are buying it any longer. The laws and court decisions bear this out.

      Thank you and take care.

      • Meghan Murphy

        Masturbating to degrading, misogynistic, violent acts normalizes and sexualizes those acts. Indeed, men attempt to replicate many of these acts in their own sexual relationships. We would never argue that looking at racist and sexist imagery in ads or in pop culture is harmless, why on earth would we make those arguments around porn? The answer, of course, is that it is in men’s benefit to pretend as though porn is just ‘harmless fantasy’ with zero impact on reality, and that feminists are being hysterical for daring to challenge it.

        • James Dosher

          Well, I certainly don’t think you are hysterical by any stretch of the imagination. You’ve been quite calm and polite throughout our discourse. Like too much else in life, the irrational, frothing feminist is another trope in our lives. I don’t have to agree with everything you say to accept you make valid arguments. In the end this is still more your struggle than mine.

          I disagree with your views on porn because the rapidly increasing access to porn has not brought about an escalating wave of male violence against women. If there was such data, the Religious Right here in the US would have used that to justify grinding out pornography years ago. I do not believe porn is completely harmless. Sick individuals can use porn as a spring board for horrific acts. Sadly, apparently so can an internet meme such as the Slender Man.

          To me, blaming pornography removes the responsibility from the individual. We are adults. If a person can’t tell fantasy from reality, no matter how attractive to their perversions, they don’t need to be indulging in ANY fantasy experience. They have other, far more pressing, issues.

          Again, thank you. I do appreciate your time spent responding to me.

          • marv

            It’s not about sick individuals. All porn users are perverts who take pleasure in viewing women sex objects. It’s an old tradition you follow:


            “In the end this is still more your struggle than mine.”

            No. Men who use porn or condone porn are the problem. Men ending the production and consumption of porn is the solution. Your liberal ethics are different from the conservatives but both are male supremacist.

            “Like too much else in life, the irrational, frothing feminist is another trope in our lives.”

            Martin Luther King said the greatest stumbling block to freedom is “the white moderate, who is more devoted to ‘order’ than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: ‘I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action’.” He realized the insistence on civility was used by the elite to suppress emancipation.

      • marv

        “As for porn and the normalization of sexualized violence ~ I’m not convinced. If anything, men are retreating into online porn instead of interacting with real women at all, theoretically making women safer.”

        Your research is self-serving. It confirms the male bias towards porn, letting you off the hook for violating women’s human rights by using porn:

        “Porn use is linked to higher rape acceptance attitudes. A major 2012 systematic literature review found that adolescent consumption of internet pornography was linked to attitudinal changes including acceptance of male dominance and female submission as the primary sexual paradigm, with women viewed as “sexual playthings eager to fulfill male sexual desires.” Adolescents intentionally exposed to violent sexually explicit material, the review found, were six times more likely to be sexually aggressive than those who were not exposed. Similarly, in a 2015 meta-analysis examining the link between pornography consumption and sexual violence, the authors found that consumption of pornography was associated with increased likelihood of committing actual acts of sexual aggression.”


  • Meghan Murphy

    You’re talking about how women’s ‘beauty and sexuality’ is *constructed* under patriarchy *by men*. The way you were discussing it was that this was some innate quality women have, rather than something you are imposing on them, because it pleases you to think of women’s ‘beauty and sexuality’ in a particular, romantic way.

  • Meghan Murphy

    “A problem I am grappling with is how much agency do women have over standards of sexuality and beauty? If we say every standard of beauty is patriarchal then aren’t we kind of boned?”

    Under patriarchy, women *don’t* have true agency over ‘standards of sexuality and beauty.’ This is the whole point. We, as a society, have NO idea what women’s sexuality would look like or what might be considered attractive outside patriarchy.

    • James Dosher

      Please excuse my language but …

      HOLY SHIT! That’s a terribly dark diagnosis for for gender relations and the future of our species.

      It is like …
      “I’ve been brain-washed. I know I’ve been brain-washed … but I don’t know how deep it goes.”

      As I said – terribly dark.

      Thank you for your blunt honesty, Ms. Murphy. It has been enlightening … if depressing.

      • Meghan Murphy

        It feels like this is your first encounter with feminism?

        • James Dosher

          Oh God, no! Normally I start out okay then I tell them I write porn (I don’t hide it as this is my real name and being ‘sneaky’ about it has always seemed unfair ~ the same for me being bi-polar) and suddenly its something like this …

          “You reprehensible pig! STFU! Never talk to me again!”

          Since I’m neither a stalker nor a troll, I’ve normally let the matter drop.

          You are the first (radical?) feminist who has tried to explain it to me in terms I could wrap my mind around though. I appreciate it.

          **The greatest curse is Knowledge. Not only does knowing bring pain as it tears away our happily preconceived notions, it is joined by the understanding that ignorance of the truth would be worse**

          Thanks once more. Since I’m on the East Coast, it is a bit past my bedtime. Have a nice night and take care.

    • Mixelle

      We do have an idea and it’s lesbian, specifically butch culture.

      • Meghan Murphy

        All women would be lesbians?

  • marv

    ‘Sexual attraction is right up there in the hierarchy of needs with food, sleep and security. How do we make it non-exploitative?’

    It trivializes authentic needs when you include sex. You won’t die from lack of sex with women but you will from lack of food, security, housing… Sex is an urge not a necessity. You can masturbate if you have an erection. You sound very privileged to be able to regard sexual relations as a necessity.

    ‘misogyny definitely exists though I don’t believe in a Patriarchy’

    As a man you are biased against noticing patriarchy as reality. White people will argue that white supremacy doesn’t exist either, as a system of power in which blacks have to conform to survive. The state, economic institutions , porn, prostitution, beauty industry, the family, media, and faith teachings were all made by men, as well as the rest of the established order. You don’t want to see patriarchal posterity because as a mansplainer you have a vested interest in not seeing it.

    • James Dosher

      Marv, I apologize for the delay in responding. For some reason no notification of your response showed up in my Inbox.

      “It trivializes authentic needs when you include sex.”

      Except the drive to procreate is a basic need. Under normal circumstances, humans strive to bring the next generation into existence. Even matriarchal/matrilineal societies include motherhood as a cornerstone of their groups.

      Sure, we don’t need ‘sex’ in the same way we need food & shelter, except without sex there will come a time when you won’t be able to gather your own food, or prepare/repair our shelters. You don’t need food every moment of the day. You don’t need to spend every moment inside. You don’t have to spend every second obsessed with security either … yet if you ignore any of them long enough, you will suffer for it. We all grow old. If we fail to have sex, we risk ending up dying alone.

      Of course that doesn’t mean I have to have sex every day, every week, or even every year. I don’t need to eat, or drink, every day either. I can survive a day without. In the same way, because of the climate I live in (North Carolina), I could live out in the elements several months out of the year.

      We are no longer primitives (for both good and ill). Most people reading this neither hunt nor gather their daily fare. The great majority know from day to day they will have some place to take shelter from the elements. They know if they call 911, someone will answer – aid will be forthcoming if their security is threatened. We can live celibate lives and grow old in some assisted-care ‘living’ facility with some person, or machine, watching over our final, failing moments. We don’t ‘need’ offspring anymore.

      Yet that instinct remains and it remains as a powerful force in people’s lives. Evolution is a powerful mistress and she’s been coaxing us along for a damn long time with a certain degree of success.

      “As a man you are biased against noticing patriarchy as reality. White people will argue that white supremacy doesn’t exist either, …”

      Fine. Two serious questions about the Patriarchy, if you would, please.

      1) What would it take for you to be satisfied the Patriarchy was dismantled/destroyed?

      2) What would this ‘new’ society look like?

      On White Supremacy.

      1) What would it take for you to accept the US/Western Society was no longer victimized by White Supremacy?

      2) As a feminist, what do you do about all the Black men? They are hardly immune to misogynistic views and violence against women, so what happens to them?

      3) What do you do about non-Western misogynistic cultures? The demographic skewing caused by the People’s Republic of China’s One Child Policy has me curious. A lot of female infants were ‘aborted’, or abandoned, due to the clash between this government directive and their people’s deeply ingrained patriarchical culture which places a far higher premium on sons over daughters.

      This is not a matter of ‘well, we White misogynists are better than those guys’. It is the question of ‘if another patriarchical / misogynistic cultures saw White Supremacy going under, how would they react?’ Few thing exist in a vacuum.

      For that matter, India also comes to mind … as does most of the Islamic world. Do we want to discuss far too many sub-Saharan African’s views on women and Women’s Rights?

      Marv, I would appreciate your input. Ms. Murphy has got me thinking along strange, for me, lines of reasoning. In almost all cases, two voices are better than one.

      Thank you and take care.

      • marv

        Your text is too long and rambling. Keep it short and to the point.

        Many women and men don’t want to have children. The drive can be contained if people choose to so using rationality instead of simply following instincts. It is not easy in a patriarchal culture which requires women to be mothers. You are unwittingly confusing male dominance with evolution.

        Having offspring is no guarantee of not dying alone and is a foolish reason to have children. The nuclear family keeps us in these confined conceptions of family which prevent broader notions and models with greater capacity for communion and equality. Patriarchal conservatism and liberalism have formed these bubbles of captivity not nature. You give the same misguided authority to nature as religious types do to god. And nature is not a mistress or a mother, that is sexist and anthropomorphizing.

        “What would it take for you to accept the US/Western Society was no longer victimized by White Supremacy?”

        This question is racist because it states that systemic racism doesn’t exist in the West.

        You don’t have the will yet to overcome sexist and racist mindsets.

  • Liz

    What do you care anyway? You are not on the receiving end of rape. Enjoy watching your sex trafficked porn .Sicko!

    • James Dosher

      Liz, I care because I am a Husband of a wonderful Wife and a Father to a exceptional Daughter. Since I don’t believe in gender segregation, I had better care because what wounds them, wounds me. I’d also like to think I’m smart enough to confront evil before it darkens my family’s doorway.

      I ask because I believe the surest way to remain ignorant is to never ask when the opportunity presents itself.

      I don’t watch sex-trafficking porn. I’m not sure why you would think I would.

      As for calling me a ‘Sicko!’ ~ that is your right in a free society. I don’t think you know me and I am unsure why you appear to hate me. Have you ever read anything I’ve written? I don’t write women as ‘beardless men with breasts’, or helpless victims. I try to write them as they are – as people.

      Take care and thank you for your time.

  • James Dosher

    Liz, it was an honest question. I am neither a woman nor a feminist so I was curious what they would consider as options which would escape me ~ being a non-feminist and a guy.

    Again, if I never ask I’m likely to not learn much.

    I apologize for any inconvenience. It was never my intent.

  • James Dosher

    Done. CAN$5 a month. I’m not made of money, ya know. Being an insane independent porn author pays beans.

    Next … how about helping me work out what feminist standards of beauty would be? Or would they be attracted to attributes beyond physicality?

    As an example, when I was writing an Amazon secret society, I had them value terms such as ‘athletic’, ‘swift’ and ‘dexterous’ as positive physical descriptors over such things as ‘cute’, ‘sexy’ and ‘beautiful’ which had little, if any effect. That was because the saw themselves in a constant, low-level state of war with the surrounding male-dominated world as well as their willingness to compete among each other as they had a warrior ethos which demanded much of their small numbers.

    Their core values were to live free and raise baby Amazons. No Amazon would let another be enslaved while they drew breath. Child-rearing was communal because they wanted every daughter to view each member as a sister. Internal rivalries were encouraged yet betraying any of their sister to the outside world was anathema. They were a very hard people, but I’d also like to say I made them very human as well.

    I’ve never tried to write something from a feminist perspective though ~ thus my interest here.

    • marv

      How about helping me work out what beauty norms should be for men’s bodies? Would they be attributes beyond power and dominance?

      As an example, if I wrote publicly about your body, valuing cute, sexy and beautiful, over things like athletic, swift and dexterous, would it have any effect on you to present yourself this way? Would it be a nice change from the low-level state of war and competition with surrounding males as men have a warrior ethos which demands much of our time and energy? It might be terrifying due to what men do to traitors of manly behaviour.

      Internal rivalries are encouraged among men but men’s core values are to not betray other men to the interests of women. Men are hard people but I’d also like to say I can make us humane as well.

      I’ve never tried to write something from this perspective though – thus my interest in you as a hot and steamy specimen to study.

  • TwinMamaManly

    The need for a sense of “belongingness and intimacy” (but more than just plain old “sex”) comes after physiological needs and security and safety. But misinterpret away.

    “Sexual creatures” – we’ve been going at it for 10s of 1000s of years? More like 100s of 1000s, or millions of years.

    You’re coming across pretending to be benevolent and educated and polite, but really you’re just the same type of creepy, patronising, old white man from the South (justifying all this behaviour because you’re a Husband and Father – I did notice the capitalisation of your roles but not your women’s – and you’ve done “Research” with real live women!) that enables and upholds the Patriarchy.

    We see you. We see right through your BS too.

    • James Dosher

      Ummm … okay, TwinMamaManly …

      My counter to that ‘belongingness and intimacy’ comes after the physiological needs of security and safety are defied by the psychological evidence of the emotional needs of humans. We do crazy life-risking and even life-ending things out of both love and hate.

      You appear to be treating humans as if they are biological machines ruled by logic and reason which prioritize what we need based on what is best for us as individuals instead of how we feel. I have to disagree as we are not nearly that perfect.

      “You’re coming across pretending to be benevolent and educated and polite, but really you’re just the same type of creepy, patronising, old white man from the South (justifying all this behaviour because you’re a Husband and Father …”

      I’m not trying to be benevolent because I’m not dispensing anything. I am here, on this site, as a supplicant.

      I’m not terribly well educated. I never graduated college. I’ve lived the life I’ve lived and my experiences are mine.

      I’m polite because that was how I was raised. I was also taught *being polite costs you little while often reaping huge dividends.* It is word usage – nothing more.

      Creepy … okay. As our contact has been minimal, I’m not sure how I can even defend against such an accusation except to say in a free society you are free to insult me however you wish.

      Since I have zero issues treating women as equals, or even as a superior given the proper circumstances, I’m unsure what I’m being patronizing about. I’m asking questions, not shouting down opinions.

      Old … yep. I’m 54.
      White … yep. French, German, English, Welsh and Scottish extraction.
      Man … yep.
      From the South … yep. Buried my first named ancestor in Charleston, S.C. in 1711. Personally, I was born in Newport, Rhode Island (my Father was in the U.S. Navy), but lived the majority of my life in and around Raleigh, N.C. I even went to Cotillion as a teenager, if that matters.

      “… – I did notice the capitalisation of your roles but not your women’s …”

      That is part of a literary technique I’ve picked up over the years, but I think you’ve misinterpreted it. I use capital letters when referring to my family, so my ‘mother’ would be ‘Mother’ while your ‘mother’ would remain ‘mother’. It is not a matter of gender, but relationship.

      Also, I capitalize references to such things as ‘race’ and ‘religion’ while not capitalizing gender if that matters, so I would write this way “an Hispanic Jewish woman”. It is just how I write.

      “… – and you’ve done “Research” with real live women!) that enables and upholds the Patriarchy.

      We see you. We see right through your BS too.”

      I’m trying to talk to real women right now to learn their viewpoints. I have never believed I’m printing anything here you and others haven’t see, or heard about, before. I’m not out to champion the Patriarchy ~ since I don’t think such a thing exists and I’ve already said so. I’m not out to sell anything. I want to know because I think it will make me a better writer.

      That’s it.

      Is it really so hard to believe I simply want to expand my horizons?

  • TwinMamaManly

    Ooh that’s me! I wonder why I’m not getting the hits??

  • TwinMamaManly

    Pock marks being evidence of immunity to communicable diseases and the physical fortitude to survive such viruses.

    It’s a perverse relationship that the women gyrating on stage are generally so skinny they’re probably in amenorrhea and so layered with adornments and body alterations that they wouldn’t have TIME to be mother and care for their young. Yet males want to “mate” with them. That argument simply doesn’t hold water. Strange times.

  • TwinMamaManly

    This is an anthropological view, not post-modern motherhood. Believe me, my breasts, after feeding 3 babies, are most definitely pendulous and well able to nourish babies no problem. If you’re living on the savannah and survival is precarious, I could image that would be seen as a desirable physical attribute!

    • Tinfoil the Hat

      You’re full of evo-psych MRA nonsense.

      • TwinMamaManly

        MRA nonsense? That’s a bit harsh. As I said anthropological not “post-modern”.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Ah I see. Then yes, you are probably right.

  • Jeff

    Lol hypocrisy. These dancers chose this career and did it because they’re paid to do so. So..what is more important. Peoples subjective opinions of what others SHOULD DO or the free choices of women who are empowered to do what they want?
    Are you trying to change perception of what we find attractive by shaming that which you do not approve? Yikes. Objectification of beauty is what we do. Shall we all don masks and layers of clothes to hide our forms to not be offended? We should all read kurt Vonnegut’s Harrison bergeron.

    • marv

      Lol back at you. We don’t make choices in a void. Social systems and conditions are the framework in which we make decisions. If you lived in the middle ages in Europe you probably would have been a Catholic. In capitalism you are trained to be a servant worker for capital or a capitalist. In a pornified culture women are groomed to be sex things for men. Subjectivity isn’t independent of political structures.

      To criticize capitalism, church and sexism is not to shame workers, church laity and women. It is about exposing institutions for their oppression of labor, religious followers and females.

      More lol about Kurt Vonnegut. Patriarchy shaped all of his writings without him even seeing it. Or maybe he did but didn’t care.