Trans-identified male verbally attacks Rose McGowan at Barnes & Noble talk

Trans activists successfully derail Rose McGowan’s efforts to speak out against sexual assault with accusations of “transphobia.”

 

On Wednesday night at the Union Square Barnes & Noble in Manhattan, Rose McGowan was scheduled to read passages from her new memoir, “Brave,” and answer questions about her experiences recovering from and speaking out about sexual assault. In the midst of her discussion of grief and recovery, a trans-identified male in the audience launched into a verbal attack. Despite McGowan’s efforts to respond politely, saying, “we are the same, sister,” the man, identified as Andi Dier, continued screaming at the activist, asking, “What have you done for transwomen?!” McGowan responded pointedly: “What have you done for women?” As Dier attempted to blame “cis white women” for a supposed “genocide,” saying, “this is the AIDS crisis all over again,” McGowan grew angry:

“Don’t label me, sister. Don’t put your labels on me. Don’t you fucking do that. Do not put your labels on me. I don’t come from your planet. Leave me alone. I do not subscribe to your rules. I do not subscribe to your language. You will not put labels on me or anybody. Step the fuck back. What I do for the fucking world and you should be fucking grateful. Shut the fuck up. Get off my back. What have you done? I know what I’ve done, God dammit… I didn’t agree to your cis fucking world.”

This tirade was apparently launched in part due to comments McGowan made on RuPaul’s podcast What’s the Tee? in July 2017. During that conversation, McGowan discussed the male gaze, and the way women internalized it, pointing out that trans-identified males experience life differently than those of us who have grown up female. She said her trans friends never asked her what it was like to be a woman, to grow up as a woman, to get a period, to grow breasts “and all of a sudden people are screaming at you on the streets.” Essentially, she challenged the notion that “feeling like a woman” literally meant a male was the same as a female:

“They assume because they felt like a woman on the inside. That’s not developing as a woman. That’s not growing as a woman, that’s not living in this world as a woman, and a lot of the stuff I hear trans complaining about, yeah, welcome to the world. This is our world. Really? This is how you’re being treated? Ok. Me too.”

Despite the fact McGowan has gone out of her way to say that men and trans-identified people are also subjected to rape and other forms of male violence, and despite that she refers to trans-identified males as “women,” McGowan has still been smeared as “transphobic,” accused of “harming transwomen” for her comments on RuPaul’s podcast and response to Dier.

Today, Them published an interview by trans activist Katelyn Burns with Dier. Burns and Dier vilify McGowan throughout the interview, and paint the Barnes and Noble audience as “privileged,” comparing their support of McGowan (and lack of support for Dier), a victim of sexual abuse, to “ignor[ing] a fucking genocide.”

Not only did Dier proudly reveal that he had planned the attack, but claimed McGowan no longer had to fear male violence, saying:

“The only difference between Rose and I getting harassed on the street is that where her experience can end in sexual assault, mine has a likely chance to end in sexual assault followed by murder…

… She doesn’t have to worry about getting followed home [any]more with her security detail and privilege, while my trip to Barnes & Noble could have been my last one.”

The reality, of course, is that while, for example, in 2015 there were 23 recorded murders of trans-identified males in in US, over 1600 women were killed by men the same year. Three or more women are murdered every day in the US by their boyfriends or husbands. To claim McGowan is not in danger despite all that she has been through and continues to go through demonstrates not only a complete lack of empathy, but wilful blindness. What we should have learned from #MeToo is that all women are vulnerable sexual harassment, sexual assault, and male violence, regardless of their “privilege.” No matter how wealthy, famous, or white a woman, is, she is still likely to be victimized by men.

What we also know is that trans-identified males are no less likely than any other man to be perpetrators of violence. Indeed, trans activists have targeted, threatened, and even assaulted women themselves. Precisely zero feminists have engaged similarly towards trans activists, despite Dier’s false claims that he fears an imagined “an army of TERFs” will “target” him. For a publication to host two male voices trying to diminish the reality of male violence against women and trash a victim is grotesque.

Exacerbating the disturbing and hypocritical nature of Dier’s attack, since the news has circulated on social media, a number of women have come out online, accusing him of sexual assaulting them as girls.

Rather than condemning this man’s behaviour, McGowan’s response has been painted as “a meltdown” online, an age-old tactic used to dismiss women as “over-emotional” and “crazy.” McGowan, who has suffered a great deal of trauma in her life and is likely exhausted from being in the spotlight, smeared and discredited at every turn, was right to be angry and this attempt to derail her talk. It is Dier who should be condemned, not McGowan, who deserves our support and solidarity.

But apparently, unless we are willing to pretend our experiences as females are both not real and no different than those of men’s, we don’t deserve respect, and our attempts to speak out should be shut down.

As a result of the attacks on McGowan, Seattle Arts & Lectures announced they were cancelling her scheduled appearance on February 20th. On Twitter, McGowan said she planned to cancel all upcoming appearances, due to the attack and lack of support.

Meghan Murphy
Meghan Murphy

Founder & Editor

Meghan Murphy is a freelance writer and journalist. She has been podcasting and writing about feminism since 2010 and has published work in numerous national and international publications, including New Statesman, Vice, Al Jazeera, The Globe and Mail, I-D, Truthdig, and more. Meghan completed a Masters degree in the department of Gender, Sexuality and Women’s Studies at Simon Fraser University in 2012 and lives in Vancouver, B.C. with her dog.

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  • I was wondering why this guy targeted her. Thanks for the background to the story. All my best wishes to McGowan.

  • Wren

    Thank you for this-write. I have been so fucking angry about this all day. I don’t know how people cannot see the actual agenda of trans-identified men after an incident like this. They will stop at nothing to derail women’s progress against abuse and assault. She was there to offer hope and healing to women and he just took a giant shit all over it. I hope more comes to light about the predatory behavior of this man. I’m going to find a way to express my support to McGowan, even if it means opening a twitter account (I’m so paranoid about expressing myself in any other forum other than here!). Anyway, hopefully McGowan will realize from this experience that there is no further point in pandering to these men.

    • Cassandra

      I hear you about Twitter but I’m considering it, too.

    • lk

      Wren I saw you post about this story on the other whats current post, I totally understood your anger.

      “She was there to offer hope and healing to women and he just took a giant shit all over it.”
      He did what many men do: made this situation all about him. He is portraying himself as a victim while portraying Rose as some privileged white woman who isn’t doing enough for men.

      Why it is Rose’s job to take care of transwomen? It’s not…

      Why isnt this MTF supporting Rose in calling out Hollywood for its abuse of women? He’s not supporting her because she dared to commit the sin of making the safety of women her primary concern…

    • Cherry Nuka Cola

      I just bought her book. I figured that’s gotta be a stronger message of support than a tweet.

      • Melanie

        Yes, we should buy her book if we can afford it. Otherwise order copies into your local libraries.

  • thebewilderness

    Sexual predator harasses sexual abuse survivor. Big effing surprise.
    I had heard that the women in the audience shouted him down but now this says no one did a thing. Is this or that true does anyone know?

  • Natasha Chart
  • martindufresne

    Bravo, Meghan. Speaking truth to power, as always!

    • Meghan Murphy

      Thanks for being an ally, Martin!

    • FierceMild

      Sorry fo nitpicking, martin, but it should be brava.

  • Ida Coetzee

    Many trans identifying males are sexual predators- this fact needs to be addressed as a psychological misogynistic pathology that exists amongst trans identifying males and trans women. Trans activism is misogynistic and supports sexual predators, it’s time for trans women to distance themselves from the sexual predators parading as trans women and trans activists are enabling sexual predators, there’s nothing more misogynistic than dismissing crimes against females by TIMs.
    #isupportrosemcgowan
    #transactivismismisogynistic

  • Cassandra

    Thank you as always, Meghan, for the thorough, informed, and truthful write-up about this appalling incident. I know no one in that room said anything to that shit stain but there were people clapping, in my town of NEW YORK, which gives me great hope.

    New York has been a cesspool of the transgender bullshit (basically ground zero), in all its so-called “liberal” glory. One cannot even attend a women’s AA meeting these days without males in the room, as now AA women’s meetings are open to those who “identify” as women. When a big part of many female alcoholic’s stories is sexual abuse, this is a huge fucking slap in the face — as if any female person wants to talk about that kind of truth with men in the room. It makes my fucking blood boil. And AA is supposed to be free of political causes — “neither opposing or endorsing” them. Motherfuckers. Yeah, nothing political at all about stripping females of the right to define ourselves. Just one more way males are attempting to break down ANY female solidarity or ANY place we can talk about male predation.

    Anyway, sorry for that tirade. It’s just all so rich, when Rose was talking about sexual assault. Where’s my fucking flamethrower.? “Cis” my ass is right. FUCK that shit.

    And if you’re reading this, Rose, I’m so sorry that this piece of human garbage did this to you, and that people are vilifying YOU. There will be a time when you’re seen and *celebrated* as the female human rights champion you are, in every way. Thank you and we’re on your side, 100%.

  • Cassandra

    Oh, and one more thing — that fucking Variety magazine can go to hell. Women aren’t “breaking down” or as many people in the comments seem to believe, “mentally ill” when we are merely REALLY ANGRY at what’s being done to us. GOD DAMNIT!

  • Zoë Lafantaisie

    Thank you for writing this article so quickly and thoroughly. Hoping this will help women see what these men really want – to decimate women’s voices.

  • corvid

    Way to go, Andi Dier. Way to end male violence against trans-identified people by targeting female sexual assault survivors! So glad you decided to put the blame for the violence you suffer at the hands of homophobic men who know that you are male (and always will be) where it belongs… on women!

  • martindufresne

    Could it be that what Rose McGowan said was “I didn’t agree to your cis fucking *word*!” and not “world”, as he had just said: “I do not subscribe to your language. You will not put labels on me or anybody.”?

    • Meghan Murphy

      While I agree that would make more sense, it sounds like ‘world’ in the video!

  • Meghan Murphy

    lol Dier is a white male. Do you know what feminism is??

  • Meghan Murphy

    Thanks sister!

  • Meghan Murphy

    There are lots of great radical feminists on Twitter! glad you all are joining in 🙂

  • Meghan Murphy

    Revolting.

  • Meghan Murphy

    You aren’t a feminist if you center dudes in your ‘feminism’.

  • Meghan Murphy

    It’s not phobic to tell the truth about material reality.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Not positive but sounds like they are catering to dudes on this one https://twitter.com/SeaArtsLectures/status/959518816060321792

  • Meghan Murphy

    Loved her in the video! So tough.

    • foamreality

      I wanted her to pick up the chair and throw it into outer space. She was too polite.
      😉

  • Meghan Murphy

    I mean, you literally just tried to claim women had to center men in feminism in order to be feminist…

    • theo

      i mean, i literally claimed that women that are trans, are women. don’t see how that’s centering men as i did not mention men once in my comment ?

      • Meghan Murphy

        If a woman identifies as ‘trans’ she is still female… But I’m assuming that by ‘transwomen’ you mean males?

  • Wren

    But Dier predates on young women, so he’s not gay. His is a case of autogynephilia.

  • I’m a feminist but I can’t support men who call themselves women based on a feeling. This reduces me to a feeling any man can have anytime.I am seriously way, way more than that.

  • Wren

    “I sometimes wonder if a huge part of the MtF drive isn’t about appropriating the position of sympathy he feels women have, that he lacks?”

    But that suggests that women are reserved any sympathy due to our existence as females. We all know that’s not true. Women also rarely report sexual assault, since when when we do we’re blamed, shamed, and dismissed or crucified.

    There’s no logical explanation for this man’s behavior other than that he is manipulative, narcissistic, coercive, violent and deranged. He is just a garden variety sociopath who is using whatever tools are available to him (perceived public sympathy, social movements, etc) to abuse and degrade others.

  • He is not a woman. What is wrong with you people? You can’t just think you way to being the opposite sex. Gender does not a person make.

  • They just lost my support.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Thanks AKG5

  • Meghan Murphy

    What is a woman, Jennie?

  • Meghan Murphy

    “If celebrities are going to profit off of being the figureheads for our collective traumas, then we have the right to demand they do it right.”

    Good lord how utterly insulting and gross. As IF Rose is going through all this for profit. She all but lost her career because she was brave enough to speak out. And now she’s painted as crazy.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Right. So, ‘mtf trans people’ are males who wish they were women and/or have some kind of fetish…

    • theo

      No. mtf transition refers to people who were assigned male at birth but transition to female. they don’t “wish” they are a woman and it is not a fetish, it is they way she always was. she developed with a girl brain, boy body and experiences gender dysphoria. gender is in the brain and not your genitals, for example if you were metaphorically in a car accident and had to get your chest removed for some reason, you wouldn’t transition to a guy simply because you didn’t have a chest. gender studies are still occurring today to understand more about trans people. i want to emphasise that i am not defending Andi Dier in any way, she is a horrible excuse for a person, but she is challenging feminism that isn’t intersectional. Trans people are real, they have been round a long time and they arent gowing to disappear. They aren’t a “fetish”. They are human and they should be treated with the respect they deserve.

      • Meghan Murphy

        People are not ‘assigned’ a sex at birth… Sex is simply observed. You are arguing that gender is innate, which is an incredibly regressive and sexist idea. A male is male. No matter how they ‘feel’ ‘on the inside.’ And yes, every human should be treated with respect. That is not up for debate.

      • Hanakai

        Your ideas are insane and contrary to reality.

        People are not “assigned” a sex at birth, they are born male or female depending on their genotype and morphology.

        The human brain is the same in young males and females: same neurotransmitters, same neurophysioloogy, same structures, same. This idea of “ladybrain” is another sick twisting of reality by trans cultists and liars.

        Trans people who think they are the other sex are mentally ill, delusional, that is all there is to it. It would be much cheaper and more effective and aid the cause of greater human happiness to treat these people for their delusions instead of surgically mutilating them. They deserve as much respect as other mentally ill people. They do not deserve to make a whole society buy into their delusions.

  • Meghan Murphy

    This *is* feminism, friend.

  • corvid

    “Pipe the fuck down”, huh? Does it bother you when women speak in our shrill, hysterical, childlike voices, pointing out facts and reality?

    “Especially when trans women understand the differences between the ways women are treated and the ways men are treated better than anyone else.”
    Because they are men who present as “female.”

  • Hekate Jayne

    There are plenty of autistic people that are not misogynist shitbags.

    Males largely lack empathy. And that is because they are entitled fucktwits.

  • Hekate Jayne

    No one here is confused but you.

  • Hekate Jayne

    I think that you can have more than one person on each account.

    If I am correct, then maybe you can be added as a user to my acct? It shouldn’t take more than a throw away email addy.

    When I got the app, I had to give my phone number. But there are ways around that, too, probably with burner numbers and such.

    Just offering. ☺

  • elle-laments

    Lol, you came to a feminist website and told the author to ‘pipe the fuck down’? Your balls are showing Jennie.
    *off to make popcorn, this should be fun!*

  • corvid

    Surely then, you can offer some proof that it is possible to change the sex of a human being. Go ahead and find some. We’ll wait.

  • LordofLight

    I’m genuinely curious as to where transactivists draw the line. Assault a woman for having an opinion you don’t like? No problem! Use misogynistic, sexist, demeaning language against women? No problem! Make rape and death threats against feminists? No problem! And in this case, shout at a rape victim at an event that’s not even about trans issues, but issues facing women everywhere? No problem! Oh, and as revealed in Meghan’s exchange with the all-knowing Morgane Oger, any mention of any of the above by a feminist will be dismissed as the hysterical rantings of an overly-sensitive woman. It’s like some of these transactivists are reading straight from the 1957 edition of The Abusive Husband’s Handbook.

    There are so many more important issues women could be working on rather than catering to jackass narcissistic perverts like Andi Dier. All the concessions must be made by women, all the work must be done by women, yet transactivists offer nothing in return.

    • Bleeps3

      Here’s the thing: No one said trans* weren’t welcome in MeToo, to share stories of sexualized abuse; it makes absolutely no sense to come at Rose somehow for a supposed “transphobic” comment she made with RuPaul, unless the point is to hijack attention. OK, so Andi got some attention. Now Andi can continue making it about Rose, OR do something to call attention to male violence.

    • lk

      “I’m genuinely curious as to where transactivists draw the line. ”

      They seem to draw the line at yelling at or criticizing males…especially the males who actually commit violence against transpeople.

      And why havent TRA’s come up with a term for men who dont believe transwomen are women…

      • acommentator

        “And why havent TRA’s come up with a term for men who dont believe transwomen are women…”

        As with “Trans Exclusionary Male”???

        It is an interesting question. I think there is probably a lot that could be said about it. I have been thinking about that for a while, and am not very sure about my own views on it.

        I do think one aspect of it is that most men would simply not care, and TRAs know it. Most men would view being called a “Trans Exclusionary Male” as essentially the same thing as being called “straight.” And they would think “of course I am trans exclusionary. I’m straight.”

        In feminist terms, I guess that boils down to “male privilege makes men a difficult target for this.” Very few men are gender critical. Lots of men have issues with some aspects or varieties of masculinity. But not many straight men reject masculinity completely. And even “progressive” men who might otherwise be moved by the SJW aspect of all this are deaf to it. Because accepting MtT as being female would mean considering them as potential romantic partners. Straight men won’t go there.

        (One might reasonably respond “where does FtT fit in all this.” And I think the answer to that is that FtT are almost completely under the radar. Of course, men don’t think that FtT are men. But most men really don’t care much about it one way or the other.)

        • FierceMild

          I like trans exclusionary radical dude or TERD

        • Christine

          Excellent points.

          With respect to your last paragraph, this is merely anecdotal, but telling, I think: the event that caused my husband’s workplace (a Canadian university) to create gender-neutral, one-person-at-a-time washrooms was when a man raped an FtT in the men’s washroom.

          Would anyone deny that transmen are a lot more vulnerable than transwomen to rape and sexual harassment at the hands of straight “cis” men? Yet transactivists insist that transpeople belong in the washroom of the sex with which they identify. That’s not very considerate towards the transmen on whose behalf they claim to fight.

    • catlogic

      There is no line. Nothing but women’s complete submission will do (and even then they would rage at us for existing) and nothing is off limits where these misogynistic fetishists are concerned.

      • Morag999

        You are right. It’s a binary with them. Women (but not men) must submit completely, or we are THE enemy.

        And, as you note, there’s no safety from trans wrath even in total submission — as every single one of their loyal female allies will eventually discover. FACT.

  • Scott

    Wren, I’m in the same boat regarding the liberal non-profit situation. I registered for comments at FC a while ago under my actual full name, because I believe in KEEPIN’ IT REAL, as the kids say (or did ten years ago; I’m old). When I began to post comments about transgenderism I changed my display name, because I am frightened I will be outed as a gender terrorist and lose my job, which I dearly love.

  • bananasmoothie

    No. Female autistics have been underdiagnosed because of the myth that autistics lack empathy. This is a male issue. How many transmen act this way?

  • DeColonise

    As someone diagnosed with autism myself, that is not entirely true. It depends on the level of Autism one has I should say and one can learn to do it as well.

    I think there is a lot going on why trans males are the way they are but I think a huge reason is also that the whole transgender movement is basically based upon being aggressive, dominant, totalitarian. So it will also attract the voices of those trans activists (and their allies) who enjoys being this way.

  • Mia Mia

    I love Rose McGowan. I feel bad for her because I just know there will be a torrent of male and possibly libfem abuse towards her. The libfem abuse will hurt the most because she’s trying to stand up for women and seeing other women attacking her experiences must be devastating. Does anyone else feel like they have an obligation to go on Twitter and other social media platforms and support women like McGowan, but at the same time are just too tired to do it? Many men find ways to spend all day harassing women online and smearing feminists, but many women don’t have the desire or energy to fight back because we have shit to do in real life. It’s just very frustrating.

    • Hekate Jayne

      Yes.

      Males are exhausting on a good day.

      I joined Twitter just to support women. I have been there for a week or 2. And I am having a great time.

      But I have already taken a 4 or 5 day break. My first few days, I was continually mansplained at by dudes. Dudes that I did not seek out, but they found me just to set me straight. Apparently, I need to be reminded that women are in a service position to males because their God or nature says so.

      And most of these males post with their own pictures, under their real names. While I can’t do that. So.

      But here is what I remember. It is a wonderful gift that when some random rapist dies this to Rose McGowan, that we know about it immediately. And in just a few seconds, I can send her a word or 2 of support. I love that.

      But I am also tired. I am with you.

    • Rachael

      I spent a good amount of time on Twitter over the last few days because I wanted to show my support (and outrage) but I suspect before long I will feel burned out. My social media usage tends to be limited just as my tv consumption is – too depressing else!

    • Bleeps3

      I hope people will watch her interview with Ronan Farrow on YT. This shouting incident is overshadowing other things she has to say.

  • amikatari

    That phrase seems to suggest that Black oppression as well as women’s oppression is being appropriated by TRAs – shame on them!!

  • NotCisJustWoman

    I appreciate your use of the phrase “trans identified male.” I’ve been thinking for quite some time that the word “transwoman” is essentially too obfuscating to be used in any kind of political discussion.

    • thebewilderness

      They uses the term trans woman, and then transwoman, in an effort to convince people that trans identified males are a subset of category woman rather than category male, which they clearly are.
      Recently they have begun referring to themselves as trans girls and females. All of these language lies to encourage the belief that trans identified males are a subset of women and that trans identified females are a subset of males.
      They too the advice that if your grift requires a lie make it a big one because the big ones are easier for the mark to swallow.

      • Layla Alexandrovna

        Don’t forget ‘trans femme’ and ‘trans lesbian’.

      • hyperjoy

        They too the advice that if your grift requires a lie make it a big one because the big ones are easier for the mark to swallow.

        Yes, as Mary Daly discussed years ago – the “Strategy of Biggest Lies” (her caps) is a basic strategy of patriarchs. As maligned and “old fashioned” as she is today, her explication and analysis of patriarchal shenanigans continues to be spot on.

    • catlogic

      I am always pleased to see TiM rather than any terms giving any credence to their lies, and it occurs to me in the light of this incident that TiP describes so very many of these men, too – Trans Identified Pedophile. Although using that would allow them to wriggle out of the fact that paedophilia is an overwhelmingly male crime.

  • amikatari

    And there are plenty of Black feminists who are gender-critical too – are you trying to erase them? Plus white feminists can’t really help being white, can we? Unless you think we can ‘identify’ out of our race as well as sex?

  • Just Passing Through

    Exactly and nothing will change until this happens! Not capitulating to thugs in dresses is the key to ending this juggernaut.

  • Mia Mia

    Yep even the words they use are the same old ones. The outfits may have changed, but the tactics are the same.

  • Mia Mia

    One doesn’t have to be gay to be more feminine, just like a woman isn’t always a lesbian because she’s more masculine. He could just be one confused dude who also happens to be abusive towards children.

  • Hanakai

    No, he is a male and that maleness is marked in every single cell of his body. Sex is a matter of biology.

    People who think they are the other sex than their genotype are delusional and mentally ill, and surgery does not cure their illness of delusions.

  • Melanie

    And why do transwomen understand the way men are treated better than anyone else? I’ll wait for your light bulb moment….

  • Melanie

    Why don’t you ask the young women who are accusing this person of sexual harassment and assault when they were minors – and I believe them – if he’s a man or a woman? Please stop gas lighting women, insulting our intelligence and expecting us to indulge the fetishes of an obvious autogynephile. You should reconsider your priorities.

  • Melanie

    “Quit acting like trans women are fucking women”.

    Was that a Freudian slip Jennie? Is it that not even you’re really buying what they’re selling? It’s OK to say it out loud you know.

  • Melanie

    One of the fundamentals of feminism is that women and girls are simply female human beings, not walking stereotypes and gender roles, and that these ideas are the foundation of the oppression of girls and women. Transgender, postmodern and queer ideology promotes the exact opposite of that and hence is not feminism. Women are not obligated to play along with an ideology that’s antithetical to our interests and goals. Thank you.

  • Melanie

    If your intersectional feminism supports all women and disadvantaged groups then why are women accused of being transphobic if we mention our biology and reproductive systems or if we use simple words like mother? Why are we expected to prioritize the feelings and desires of white men who have ‘identified as a woman” for a week over the needs and rights of women who have lived our entire lives under patriarchy? Why are women who are surviving or have exited the sex industry silenced and labeled ‘SWERFS’ or the old classic ‘white feminists’ for expressing their opinion or experience in that industry? Even when they’re not white. Even when that industry is most harmful to women and girls who are not white. Your interesectional feminism is very selective about who gets to have a voice and weirdly it seems to be mostly white males – albeit with pink hair and glitter eye shadow – getting the biggest platform. Same old same old.

  • Midori

    lol…so transphobia is bad, but a pedophile (who has made homophobic and racists remarks in the past and who’s tumblr is full of disgusting porn, including bestiality) shouting down a rape victim at her own book-signing, where she wanted to talk about the abuse she suffered, is obviously totally okay!
    But I’m not surprised. Women’s March has become a joke! I mean, last year they had a known rapists (Cherno Biko) speak there and this year a domina was one of their main speakers. Both people are btw transwomen.

  • Amara

    Reading this Rose McGowan in Barnes and Noble story, and seeing the comments that have ensued on Twitter, has opened my eyes to the more extreme corners of this particular political area. I’ve seen truly horrible stuff written by people who purport to be Transgender women/activists. Lots of fantasies about doing violence to “TERFs” – with TERFs appearing to be any biological women who aren’t interested in subscribing to and pursuing a transgender political agenda.

    Those activists, to my mind, just sound like misogynistic men who put on dresses then masturbate to the thought of getting one over on women as they exploit, for their own purposes, the feminism they detest so much. I don’t even know if those people present themselves as women in the real world, or if they’re just woman-haters pretending to be trans women for trolling purposes. If they’re real, and if they’re on a mission to have society accept them as women and to permit them into safe spaces for women….then I think biological women aren’t really left with much option but to become “TERFs”.

    I don’t object to a transwoman sharing my safe space if she doesn’t abuse it (I also have no problem with referring to a transwoman as “she”, as a social courtesy). But it’s a privilege biological women extend to trans women who are considerate and discreet in the way they use women’s facilities. A privilege I would support withdrawing in the face of aggressive activism from the transgender movement. The kind of biological-males-insisting-on-being-called-women who are posting vile, misogynistic stuff against biological women are precisely the reason we have women only facilities.

    Our reproductive systems can be messy and inconvenient things – and whether trans women like it or not, those reproductive systems are a big part of being a woman. Whether or not they’ve started working, have stopped working or never worked is immaterial. The design of a woman’s body still presents uniquely feminine issues for the person in that body. Having those systems in our bodies is an intrinsic part of being a woman. One of the main reasons women have been oppressed historically. To dismiss biology as only being a very small part of being a woman is utterly ridiculous. It’s crazy that women should be having, in 2018, to defend our right to private spaces for biological women. To attack Rose McGowan for stating the very obvious reality that trans women don’t experience womanhood in the way that biological women do is grossly misogynistic.

    We need to have spaces in which we can discuss and/or deal with certain realities associated with being biological women without being berated for it by people who feel excluded because they see themselves as women, but don’t have to handle those biological realities to deal with. If transwomen can handle biological women’s issues without expressing disgust, or minimising them as “only a small part of being a woman” – or without feeling the need to demand that these issues be put to one side so that experiences unique to transwomen can dominate discussion about “women’s issues” then I think biological women and transwomen probably won’t bother eachother as they share facilities.

    Ultimately though, women’s toilets and changing rooms are not a social meeting point for everybody who meets some modern day crackpot social notion of what it means to be a woman. They are places in which biological women should be able to deal, in relative peace and privacy with all the natural, necessary but at times inconvenient bodily functions. associated with being biological woman. If it’s within the power of men to manipulate laws (laws aimed at protecting transpeople) to allow them to muscle their way into our facilities armed with actual legal rights then the law needs to change. Everything I’ve read relating to transgender activists attacking Rose McGowan only convinces me further about that. Sorry about the length of this response.

  • Cassandra

    Oh fuck off, asshole.

  • Cassandra

    FUCK OFF.

  • Nothing gets a woman no-platformed like standing up to sexual abuse. McGowan spoke about Weinstein’s abuse and he torpedoed her career. She talked back to a trans pedophile trying to disrupt her booksigning about abuse and Seattle Arts disinvited her. All this exposure and people in a position to change things behaving exactly the same.

  • G L.C

    The utter bathos of that line is hilarious though, you have to admit. Nothing reveals the complete cluelessness of people like this to real suffering like living in fear of being shanked by customers at a suburban bookstore

  • NotCisJustWoman

    John, are you agreeing with the article or simply presenting it as an illustration of points we need to be able to refute?

    • Wren

      I thought it was a “know your enemy” kinda thing. I’m surprised he hasn’t written to clarify.

  • DeColonise

    Anyone that has a slight of interest in feminist theory and has a common understanding (and not to forget interest) in the sex roles and behaviors of said sex roles understands the difference of how women and men are treated by society.
    And when it comes to trans people I bet trans men sees it even more clearly because it’s pretty obvious that it’s easier to pass as a male while being female than passing as a female while being male.

  • Caddy

    This is exactly how I feel. I’ve been on Twitter for years, and finally had to take my account private and make it read-only, because I couldn’t keep my mouth shut and was afraid I would get into trouble. I have a gimmick account I’ve been meaning to try for a while, one that just kind of gently replies with “, said a man” where appropriate. Now seems a pretty good time!

  • Michelle

    Your examples are the best, it’s so true. I find it extremely mind boggling too. It makes perfect sense that anyone who hates women would support this, it makes no sense at all that anyone else would. I just hope, with all my heart, that people come to their senses soon,and see this for what it really is, a way to control and silence women.

    • lk

      I really have no clue what women think they have to gain by supporting Transideology.

      And for the most part (other than MTF’s), it is women talking about TERFS, inclusiveness, and repeating that “Transwomen are women”….not men.

      Like, there is literally nothing in trans-ideology that helps women or girls. And TRA’s have shown time and time again that they are not allies of women.

  • G L.C

    that doesn’t sound like being in denial at all…

  • Rachael

    What’s your handle on Twitter (DM me if you don’t want to say here) – want to populate my feed 🙂

  • Hanakai

    No, delusional transsexuals are nowhere near .3 per cent of the population. That is yet another bit of trans propaganda. In the one longitudinal study, the data show that claimed transsexual females number 1 in 150,000, and claimed transsexual males number 1 in 30,000. There does seem to be an increase recently as children and confused teens get propagandized on trans Internet sites.

    When one looks at the individual trans murders in the USA, the majority involve trannies working as prostitutes and the trans prostitute murder rate is lower than the rate of women in prostitution. The murdered trannies not killed in the course of prostitution were generally murdered by their domestic or intimate partner.

    This trans propaganda that trannie are somehow specially targeted victims of trannie hate crimes is totally false. When the trannies are victims, it is because of working in prostitution, the most dangerous of all occupations, or because they chose to be with homicidal partners.

  • Meghan Murphy

    You got it almost right! Except that ‘transwomen’ are male… Feminism is a movement towards the liberation of women from patriarchy, which means we are not obligated to center gender non conforming men or men with sexual fetishes in said movement.

  • Meghan Murphy

    What do you call it when so-called feminists center white men in feminism?

  • Meghan Murphy

    Why do I need to lie in order to ‘respect’ trans identified people?

  • lk

    I don’t think Donald understood that you were being sarcastic…LMAO

    Like the women on this site dont know what feminism is…ROFL…

  • lk

    Biological males are not a disadvantaged group.

  • lk

    I’m excited to see how excited y’all are about twitter.

    Hekate and Omzig are like I twitted at that guy so hard…I love it! (I’m waiting for a good time to tell them that the past tense of tweet is actually tweeted 🙂

    I think you can only add multiple users to a business account, I don’t think a personal user can have more than one person on their account.

    Hekate is right that you do have to give a phone number, but you can get around that with google voice.

    Just create a separate email address for your twitter account.

    I actually think twitter is pretty good with their privacy and you have a lot of options-you can make your tweets private to only have certain people see them, you can set it so that no one can find you via email or phone number. And you can block/mute accounts.

    I would give it a try and see how it feels to you.

    I’m not an expert on twitter, but I used to run my school’s twitter page and I have an account that I use for entering sweepstakes…so I’ve gotten fairly familiar with it.

  • lk

    The whole interview was nonsense but that particular line is just ridiculous.

    First of all, he has no CLUE what women fear…he’s a male who has does not care about women.

    Does he think that women having vagina’s grants us some mystical, magical protection from male violence?

    Has he ever heard of FGM? Femicide? Honor Killings? Sex selective abortion?

  • lk

    I shouldnt be surprised, but I really am stunned at how many people are coming for Rose right now.

    It seems like they are angrier at her than they are at the men like Weinstein who use their power and influence to rape/assault and ruin women’s careers.

    “I have seriously seen libfems derisively commenting (on this video) on the way Rose McGowan was dressed at this event. ”

    Of course they are. Libfem is all about choice as long as your choice is sexxxy!!! Why arent they supporting Rose in her choice to reject the expected sexualization of women in Hollywood?

    The very fact that she shaved her head, is wearing minimal makeup and is wearing nonsexualized clothing is all part of her rebelling against all the sexism/abuse of women that is part of Hollywood so many other parts of the world.

    I am damn proud of her and I will be buying her book with my next paycheck.

    I think Rose has soo many freaking supporters and I hope she doesnt let TRAs and libfems bring her down.

  • JingFei

    I just have to comment on how infuriated I am that the Women’s March Twitter account had the audacity to condemn Rose McGowan and use this attack on her as a teachable moment, so all of us lowly females can learn more about “transphobia”, and how to be obedient and subservient to every TIM that screeches at us shut up and center their feelings.
    They even tweeted a grossly biased “interview” where “Katelyn Burns” (male Trans) interviews Andi Dier on just how terrible and oppressed he felt by Rose.
    Even after hundreds of women replied that Andi Dier is basically a sexual predator (with receipts), no retraction, no apology.

    The Women’s March has been thoroughly colonized.

    • Maureen

      I was also infuriated, but not surprised, at the post. Yet I AM simply stunned it has not been taken down since the allegations against Andi Dier became public. I feel dizzy whenever I think of it; we are really in the twilight zone now.

      … I continue thinking they are going to respond, of course they have to respond, it’s only a matter of time. But is it? This brave new men-are-women world seems to have no founding principles, no gravity, no horizon line, and, notably, no feminism.

      • JingFei

        I don’t think they will respond. They’ll just keep on tweeting until it’s forgotten.

        As I’ve said on a previous article, when various Women’s Marches started announcing that the Pink Hats were; “Transphobic, racist, colonialist icons like the confederate flag”, I looked into the Admins. I found there was a white Trans male on every single team, the rest of the Admins basically handmaidens.

        So I don’t expect an apology or retraction. Trans males are *always* right, always the most oppressed, no matter if they’re a pedophile rapist.

    • Liz

      I am angry about it too. I realized some time ago that there would be zero women’s liberation happening through the Women’s March organization, but this still has me furious. I just unsubscribed from their emails and listed the reason as “I don’t want anything to do with an organization that supports sex abusers and pedophiles.”

    • Helima

      I would really like Feminist Current to do an article on the Women’s March’s complicity in giving a platform to and supporting a known predator who sexually assaulted and harassed multiple underage girls. It infuriates me that they can just move on and ignore this. I don’t want it to blow over but I have no platform to make it gain traction.

      Even since this article was written, more disclosures have come out about Dier’s behaviour, as well as his racism. It is wilful at this point.

      I would love to see FC do an article where the Women’s March’s complicity is put into a context of how sexual violence against women, particularly young women, is ignored, trivialised or disbelieved particularly when it is politically or professionally inconvenient – explicitly putting the WM with everyone who aided and supported Larry Nassar, Roy Moore and all the #metoo perpetrators.

    • Elizabeth S

      Somebody could write a book on WM’s crimes against women. Off the top of my head: rapist Cherno Biko, Hailey Heartless the “male dominatrix”, Janet Mock promoting child prostitution, that convict who tortured the little boy to death, the pussy hat bans, the Pensacola branch’s censorship of WOC, Linda Sarsour and her Sharia law, on and on. (Actually Ree Walker wrote a pretty good piece about its problems for the Daily Kos last year.) Defending the Smith Haven Mall Pedo is just the last straw. Even WM’s army of glassy-eyed, rhetoric-chanting, porn-addled libfems are fed up with their hypocrisy. It is a good thing they showed their true colors. Take heart and watch all their followers peak trans.

  • Natalie

    Nothing says “man” like screaming at a rape survivor in public! Anyone noticed how big some of these TIM’s are? JFC I would have been rattled if he was yelling at me!

    • genocidal_maniac

      That is perfect. TIM. I’m going to start using that.

  • thebewilderness

    Today Andi Dier closed his tumblr account, or one of them anyway, to prevent people from seeing his history.

    • Hekate Jayne

      Well, his pervy train has already come way too far out of his pedo station for that to matter.

      Did you see him begging for money to replace his phone that he broke in a fit of manbaby rage? Yet he was still somehow on twitter.

  • thebewilderness

    Trans identified males are a subset of category male or man for whom the pronoun is he or him.
    We are under no obligation to obey males demands that we pretend to subscribe to their beliefs.

  • corvid

    Humans are a sexually dimorphic species. Gender is not real.

  • acommentator

    “McGowan’s view that trans women don’t experience growing up the same way as cis women (unless trans women transitioned early) is not transphobia.”

    It really does not matter, IMO, when someone transitions. Young or old, no one is going to treat a trans person as an actual member of the sex they identify with. Ever. People might use the preferred “his or her” title, and use the new name, but that is it. And that is very far from treating a MtT as a woman, or a FtT as a man.

  • acommentator

    “Do you not know the definition of white feminism? It doesn’t mean that white people who are feminists are white feminists. It means people who are only caring about white women, having lack of regard for people of color or trans people, any other minority. Instead of actually helping women as a whole, they only push their own agenda :)”

    Actually, its just typical SJW identity politics claptrap. Calling something “white-[insert word of your choice]” is not an argument. Its not even an observation. Its just a dodge. It is used to diss someone without having to actually engage with the points that are being made. Its laughable that anyone pays any attention to it.

  • acommentator

    “No one is commenting on the “transphobia” in this article because you’ve stepped out of Oz and back into Kansas, friend.”

    That may be the best summation I have read here.

  • lk

    “Quit acting like trans women are fucking women. It’s not gonna help anyone.”

    I love a good typo, lol!

    This sentence is the only part of that post that makes sense..acting like TIM’s are women really isn’t gonna help anybody!

  • acommentator

    “I would expect them to throw their full support behind McGowan right now.”

    Really? I am surprised at that. IMO, this is absolutely typical. “Intersectional” means, in practice, that nobody gets to focus on a particular cause because all causes are supposedly one. Which means that every cause gets hijacked by the current cause du-jour.

  • catlogic

    Yanno I don’t actually gaf about a WOMEN’S movement “failing” men in dresses. They can speak for themselves. Indeed getting them to ever shut up is the trick.

  • catlogic

    Nah, autism plays a role for TIFs, I gather, but the males? Full-blown narcissism is what you’re looking at there.

  • catlogic

    Because he’s a man (and guess what, a pedophile, among other things). Trans is antipathetic not only to feminism but to women, and there is nothing “whiter” than the misogynistic “trans activism” bullshit peddled by men like him.

  • catlogic

    “Women as a whole” do not include males. Fuck off with your bullshit.

  • Absolutely. Every time some man decides to shoot a lot of people the ‘mental illness’ line comes up. If he kills his family and then himself, same thing, ‘he was a lovely man, must have been struggling with mental illness’. If he commits atrocities for years, ‘mental illness’.
    But when they do it on an industrial scale, like invading another country and killing hundreds of thousands of people its ‘in the national interest.’ Always the excuse for inhumanity.

    Not mad, male.

    • BornACrone

      If he kills his family and then himself, same thing, ‘he was a lovely man, must have been struggling with mental illness’.

      Unless he’s brown, upon which point he’s a terrorist.

  • corvid

    It’s rich, considering one of the most recent articles on this site is an interview with Daisy Kler on this exact subject.

  • Elara

    I’ve seen McGowan getting a lot of hate on Twitter and Instagram for being “transphobic”and “white feminist” these last few days. No one seems interested in mentioning or discussing the fact that this delusional Dier-idiot is a sexual predator.

    I discovered this website a little while ago and I think it’s helped keep me sane and feel less alone when it comes to calling out libfems on their bulls-. Thanks!

    • Veronica Viramontes

      Same….I don’t know where I’d be in life if I didn’t have FC. It’s not just the blog but the commeners…it’s so refreshing knowing I’m not the only one who sees through the libfem BS

  • Americus91

    “Trans people are real and they need help, especially since 1/12 trans women are murdered for being trans.”

    Who is murdering them?

    I admire your passion in fighting for the rights of all women.

    So according to you a white, assigned male at birth, trans woman ,who lived their life as a white male up until the age of say 35 year old – needs fighting for far more than a black cis male?

  • Zuzanna Smith

    Because he is a male. Do you understand what the term male means, hon? Lol, so white feminism means understanding simple biology? Uh ok then.

  • Zuzanna Smith

    Sounds a lot like a white racist male pervert to me.

  • Zuzanna Smith

    Trans”women” are male and they are dragging women down, and you are helping them, sir, piss off.

  • Zuzanna Smith

    Lol, he is being treated better than any woman ever was. Anytime a woman stands up and speaks especially against a man she is vilified, abused and discredited. Andrew Dier is a rapist of young girls and is getting support from idiots like you. Do you support pedophiles if they are transladees? Nothing about this perv is a woman you offensive asshole.

  • Minerva Conatus

    I just signed up for Twitter yesterday. They only need an email address (that you need access to, because they do send you a verification email that you have to click). It’s very easy to create a throwaway/alternate Gmail account with a fake name. Twitter did not need me to give them a phone number–they give you the option to “Skip” (it’s in small font) giving them a phone number, and they don’t ask you again.

    In other words, you can create a completely anonymous Twitter account that is not linked to any of your real information.

  • Caddy

    I really don’t want to scare you or anyone else here, because I admire your comments very much and even went to twitter in the hope of joining up with people from here. But, the thing is, I chickened out almost immediately, and would like to explain why.

    Are you aware of #gamergate? Here’s a quick overview: http://gawker.com/what-is-gamergate-and-why-an-explainer-for-non-geeks-1642909080

    I am a female software developer, and this really hit home for me. Some of the women targeted were people I know. I get a little panicky even thinking about it. They terrorize women and ruin lives.

    You are all much braver than I am, but I want to make sure your eyes are open to what truly can happen. The way they are attacking Rose is the way they have attacked many others. They whip themselves into a frenzy and the next thing you know, a guy is at a Pizza Parlor with a gun, or a pack of them are driving a truck into a crowd in Charlottesville.

    They have formed this gross blob that is beginning to overlap in all kinds of ways, alt-right, trans-rights, mens-rights, white power etc. If that seems far-fetched, consider the very existence of Milo Yiannopoulos as a twitter-verified public figure, or how they harassed Leslie Jones, an African American comedic actress. Their hatred and abuse is becoming more and more, what’s the word.. intersectional?

    • Veronica Viramontes

      I applaud you for being in the software development field although it is comletely male-dominated which can be intimidating. I was an engineering major so I understand. I am huge into getting more women into STEM. I always deal with people(mostly men) telling me that women just aren’t as good and don’t want to go into science it’s so annoying and not true. We are pushed out of science nevermind groomed from a young age to believe we aren’t as good at science. It’s interesting that in 3rd world countries where girls don’t have access to tv shows and stupid magazines and education is viewed as a great opportunity there are the same amount of girls pursuing science but in America where girls are constantly bombarded by pornographic images from a young age and are told our looks is what will get us to the top, much fewer girls pursue science. It is really sad and I’m hoping this changes but I feel social media has made things worst as there is such competition between females to be IG famous and shit. It’s amazing when lib fems say stripping and other types of sex work can be empowering…someone I knew(supposed feminist) even said the stigma of it should go away so more girls would be willing to do it…I was like are bleeping kidding me? We need women in science and politics and directing etc not for more women to go into sex work.

  • Can’tUnseeIt

    “but it’s also frightening that people and institutions with supposed liberal values will abandon someone with the “wrong” thoughts so easily.”
    I’m afraid that when it comes to silencing women who speak out there is minimal difference between liberal and male conservatives. The same goes for woman-hating. Just different tactics and different noise levels when they are telling women to STFU and sit down, or lay down.

  • Helima

    The support for a perpetrator and the vicious attacks all across social media against Rose from liberal feminists is seriously triggering me as a survivor. I knew I differed from liberal feminism significantly but I would’ve thought condemning a racist sexual predator berating a survivor, with no qualifications, would be something we could all agree on. I would’ve thought a basic understanding of how to treat survivors, even those you deem ‘problematic’ (which should be all of them, as expecting perfection from survivors is stone cold rape culture) should underlie all feminism. It’s deeply scary and genuinely upsetting. I feel so powerless. I wish I could help Rose.

    • Veronica Viramontes

      Liberal fems are misogynists using feminism as a guise. It’s all a rouse to make misogyny appear empowering to womn. It’s insane

  • Meghan Murphy

    First of all, YES, mainstream American media DEFINITELY does prefer white celebrities. You think this is news to those of us who are consistently critical of how mainstream American media is generally, never mind how they cover ‘feminism’?

    Second, that fact does NOT mean we dismiss, ignore, downplay, or mock male violence that happens to white women, celebrity women, wealthy women, etc.

  • Meghan Murphy

    We gotta speak out where and when we can! They threaten us because they want us to shut up. Solidarity, sister!

    • Hekate Jayne

      Yepyep.

      Did you see where @terfisaslur, gallusmag, and a few others have had their accounts suspended?

      But the torture porn is still there, in spite of tons of women reporting it.

      So pictures of women with their breasts literally nailed to tables is totes ok. But women cataloguing abuse must be stopped.

      What the fuck is even happening.

      • Veronica Viramontes

        Wow this world scares me that is disturbing. I honestly feel like liberal feminism has just ruined everything. I feel the world is getting worst and worst each day. This is why I feel like I have to do something. Maybe I should open a twitter account but I want to do even more than just tweet

  • Meghan Murphy

    Men. Men are murdering trans-identified people.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Gender is absolutely not in the brain. Good god are you from the Victorian era??? Gender is just an idea—a set of stereotypes about males and females imposed on us through socialization.

  • Meghan Murphy

    No such thing as ‘cis women’, just females. And yes, the whole point of feminism is to advocate for females.

  • Meghan Murphy

    Can you explain how it is ‘transphobic’ to point out that males and females have different experiences?

  • Meghan Murphy

    Absolutely no one said all trans-identified people are sexual predators! Are trans activists incapable of actually engaging with what people are really saying or no? Are you doing this intentionally? Because it sure does seem like it.

  • FierceMild

    Right? They don’t know biology because life sciences are for girls, I think. Also, chemistry is for ladybrains because it’s all about relationships. It’s so frustrating how completely ignorant of anatomy and physiology these people have to be in order to espouse their views. Men’s bodies produce more red blood cells, FFS. Their skulls are different ,their pelvises are different, their genitals are different, their brains aren’t morphologically different. The variances between male and female brains are related to hormone productions and transwomen have male brains (ie brains that stimulate the production of male hormones and cycles). These people are absolutely testerical, furthermore, they are strangers to reason.

  • FierceMild

    Riders of Brohan, forth and fear no darkness!

    • Zuzanna Smith

      Ha! Riders of Brohan! I love it.

  • FierceMild

    Funny how if a transwoman walks in to a girl’s changing room, beard, penis and all, women are required to allow him in…how does that square with you? The same things that you say should bar you from accessing women’s spaces are things you say should not bar transwomen from women’s spaces. You aren’t making any sense at all.

  • FierceMild

    I don’t hate you. Women saying “no” does not equal hate. You should know that. I agree that gender is “in the brain” but women’s spaces are sex-based, not gender-based. Is that so hard to understand?

    You’re right that your body modifications make you an alarming presence in the women’s change room, but they don’t give you protection from male violence in the men’s room. If you decide to use the men’s room that’s a risk you take onto yourself. If laws decide that transwomen are allowed in women’s restrooms and change rooms based on self-identification, that’s a risk society puts on women.

    Males and male violence are the problem here. Transwomen are male and they commit male violence in the same proportions as any other group of males. They don’t belong in women’s vulnerable spaces. Trans people need a safe place to see to the needs of their bodies in privacy, a third option is a good choice for that. There is only one reason to rob women of safety in order to serve transwomen (who are male) and that reason is misogyny.

  • FierceMild

    Men are murdering them. Men. There is not a single case of a woman murdering a trans person on record…unless you count transwomen (who are male) in ‘woman’ then you see murderers among them. I wonder why that is? Oh wait, no I don’t. It’s because they have male-pattern-violence.

  • FierceMild

    yes. Like the other trans craze, trans orbital lobotomy. Funnily enough, that was also used to shut women’s mouths.

  • Caddy

    Thanks for this! I had a feeling you folks would have something reassuring to say on this matter. I’m just as mad as anybody else, but I haven’t gotten over my fear yet. It’s hard being fearful and furious at the same time.

    Rose looked like Joan of Arc up there, and so do you, and Meghan, and a dozen or more other authors and commenters from this site whose names I could list from memory. Thanks for being brave and loud!

  • Minerva Conatus

    Sister, you do not have male privilege. That’s a lie that has been fed to you. Don’t believe it.

    You’ve said before that you’ve been sexually assaulted. That is because you are FEMALE, and a member of the oppressed sex class. I’m sorry that you’ve had to endure that.

    You grew up in a female body, and the world treated you the way that it treats all other girls.

    Trans-identified males grew up in a male body, and the world treated them in the way that it treats all other boys. Trans-identified males do not understand all that we–you and I and every other woman in the world–have gone through, as people inhabiting a female body. They’ve never menstruated; they never felt shame when, as a child, men and boys started ogling their developing breasts; they were never told by their mothers that they better start eating less, because men aren’t attracted to fat girls; they’ve never been forced by their parents to wear a headscarf in public; etc, etc, I could go on, but you get the idea.

    If trans-identified males have never experienced any of this, and have demonstrated that they don’t even understand it, then how can we call them “women”? The answer is that we can’t.

  • HR

    ‘chest’ being a metaphor for what?

  • OldPolarBear

    … we also know from R McG that her rapist hired private investigators to gather info on her and his other victims. We also know he had amassed huge wealth and was able to maintain a fund to pay off his victims and a legal team to oversee the non disclosure agreements.

    Indeed. Some of the “private investigators” were individuals who had worked for Mossad. MOSSAD!!!! The Israeli equivalent of the CIA. It takes no leap of imagination at all to imagine such people being hired to go beyond “investigating” to intimidation, threats and, yes, assassination. It’s what Mossad, CIA and an unholy host of other state “intelligence” agencies do. Conspiracy theory? I’ve shared this here before, but will do so again.* The CIA popularized and promoted the term “conspiracy theory” to push back against people questioning the bullshit Warren Commission report after JFK’s assassination. So Rose McGowan is perfectly reasonable to be nervous.

    * I grabbed this link because it was the first site that came up on a search, so if there’s something objectionable about them that I don’t know about, there are plenty of others. It links to the actual document, but there are lots of other sites that do too.

    • Jani

      I’m using the term as in people conspiring to silence and discredit R McG and others, and because the rapist is very rich and in a position to influence public opinion, he can do this. He did just that by paying people off, silencing them by using the law, and hiring private investigators to have dirt on them ready to throw at a moment’s notice. I don’t think it’s beyond that ‘machine’ to take out someone who threatens their empire. And these people who basically OWN the media and thereby have huge influence, if not control, over public opinion probably hold more power than anyone in this society. They can make or break governments, they can influence how people vote, they can influence peoples’ political views, how people spend, their values, etc. If the world was fair and just, Weinstein would be in prison for the rest of his life. Instead he abused the legal process to silence his victims so that his victims have no legal power to put him on trial. He’s not just rich and powerful, but he has influence. He can go all the way to protect his wealth and power. That’s why I don’t think it’s so far fetched to think he could, quite literally, call the shots.

  • Cassandra

    I feel genuinely sad for you.

    Feminism, however, is for the benefit of female people (women) only. There is no reason it needs to “benefit other marginalized groups.” That’s patriarchy speaking.

    When practiced correctly, feminism is by definition intersectional because it applies to ALL females: black, asian, white, female martians and/or aliens, poor, rich, disabled, celebrities, children, teenagers, wise elders… Need I go on? Feminism is for FEMALES.

    As a way to enlighten you a bit: Black women are just one group of feminists who have their own organizations, for black female people only. You don’t see hoards of white feminists or asian feminists, etc., screaming bloody murder that they’re “excluding” them, do you?

    But males have no problem doing this to women.

    You’ve been conned, kiddo.

  • Evets

    The world needs more pissed off women willing, ready, and able to rage against the patriarchal machine who don’t give a shit what the privileged, porn-addled MRA brats and hand-wringing handmaidens on mainstream social media say about them. If enough angry women come forward perhaps they can reclaim what it means to be female from phony woMEN like Andi Dier-in-the-headlights and bring rational thought back to the forefront of feminism.

    • Americus91

      Yes the world does need this. Today I’m hearing about the backlash of MeToo and how men are refusing to work with women now.

      It’s women saying this. WOMEN saying MeToo is causing women to backslide. Because of false allegations.

      Which one’s were false?? Bill Cosby? Harvey Weinstein? Matt Lauer? Louis CK?

      The only ones I could see room for debate (and really I don’t) would be Franken and Ansari – I don’t see those as cases of false allegations – I see them as cases of inappropriate conduct – THAT NEVER SHOULD BE TOLERATED. On a date, in the office, in school, etc.

      Men need to keep their hands and dicks to themselves. It’s not that difficult! They can, they just do not want to.

      So those are the only choices? Tolerate male behavior, or they refuse to work with women at all?

      Oh wait, It’s on US to put them in their place and stand up to them when they sexually harass, abuse and rape?

      But when we do we’re called “Psycho” and told we’re lying.

      I’ve reached a point where I just do not care. Go ahead and call me a crazy, psycho, man hating bitch. It’s a better camp to be in than the patient and understanding one.

  • Po21

    I thought about that. The gender brigade would have protected him for sure, but in the end people were apalled because his victims were males. It took one guy denouncing him to make him lose his career, yet when it s women it takes 60 more victims to talk if you want to be believed. Now I actually wonder: if trans activists attacked men like they attacked women,would “progressists” still protect them?

    • Elara

      You’re absolutely right about that. We live in a society where men’s feelings are more important than women’s safety, where a mediocre man’s opinion is worth more than that of a brilliant woman etc. I’m from Norway which is supposed to be one of the better countries in the world when it comes to equality but female survivors have a hard time even getting the police to investigate and on the rare occasion that her case makes it to court it’s rarely good news. It seems to be a different story for male victims.

      And no, there would be outrage for sure!

  • Po21

    I know women will have to fight against this movement and unfortunately, like you say, men will be the one to draw the line (hope it is soon). What I meant by when will the handmaidens draw the lines is more like when will they wake up? Or distance themselves from transactivism? English is not my first language so maybe it doesn’t mean exactly what I wanted to say. I just read the comments on facebook and they are ready to ignore this guy past abuse just to protect this crazy ideology. What more can they ignore for trans male? At what point will they finally say: “enough is enough, i cant support this. Trans are not women allies.”

    • FierceMild

      Ah, I understand what you mean. And your English is very good.

      I don’t know what will motivate women to back away from the trans movement. It’s a bit like having a tiger by the tail at this point; very dangerous to let it go.

  • Melanie

    My point is that your ‘feminism’ is not as intersectional as you think it is. It prioritizes males who ‘identify as women’ over females and it enforces a strict liberal ideology. If you’re a woman who questions or doesn’t agree with that dogma you’re excluded harassed, threatened, smeared, labeled ‘TERF’ whether you’re a white women, a woman of color, a lesbian woman, a survivor of prostitution, whether you have a disability etc.This ideology also reinforces and legitimizes sexist stereotypes and gender roles not only in theory, but in society and increasingly into law. It isn’t feminism if you claim that ‘gender’ is innate and natural and that most women ‘conform to the sex we’re assigned at birth’. Sorry.

    And as a female you would be welcome in the ladies. Most trans men are easy to spot. And if not I’m sure we’d figure it out with understanding and respect. Most women and girls don’t want males with beards and all in our female facilities and we have very good reasons for that. If your feminism was truly intersectional it would acknowledge and respect the differences between males and females and what that has meant, and continues to mean for us as females. That’s the entire point of feminism after all.

  • Veronica Viramontes

    I hate the whole Lolita character…it is so pedapholic as well as victim blaming as the girl is “tempting” men…absolutely horrid. I am so sorry you have had to go through these things. I want you to know that you did nothing wrong, and if anyone is less than human it’s the people who did that to you… you are gem don’t let anyone tell you otherwise <3

  • Veronica Viramontes

    I’m down let’s do this thing

  • Veronica Viramontes

    I just might too!

  • Veronica Viramontes

    Total Agree! Unless you’re one of those species of fish then you can change from male to female depending on the environment…but we’re not..you cannot “feel” like a woman because being a woman isn’t a feeling(although there is that song) we’re a reality. When transgender men say they feel like a women I assume that means they desire to have men gaze at them in a sexual manner, which is the most degrading way to think of women….I hate the whole cis thing…who are you to say I’m cis? I don’t identify as a boy because as a scientist I understand reality but I don’t wear make up and have always loved science. Please tell me how much my life is easier than yours because I’m cis…I will shoot you down in a heartbeat (not you as in you I mean a trans male)

    • Christine

      I’ve always thought that song — “Man, I Feel Like a Woman” — should be co-opted as a lesbian anthem. Except that reading the lyrics that way is objectifying, obviously, treating a woman as you would a snack. Oh, and of course, the song isn’t very good…

      Still, whenever I’m forced to hear it, I enjoy imagining a room full of lesbians in cowboy boots doing a line dance to it.

      Seriously, though, I do find it insulting to be told by a man that he can read my mind (and the minds of all women — and the minds of all men who don’t make the transition, for that matter!), which is pretty much the claim of transgender men who say they think or feel like women.

      Like you, I reject the proposition that being “cis” privileges me. I used to feel that men who chose to transition should be given the benefit of the doubt (in terms of my or anyone’s questioning their motives) because they were making a decision to join, or at least to ally themselves permanently with, the oppressed sex class. But it has become quite clear to me that transactivists — not to paint all transpeople with the same brush — do not see women as the oppressed sex class. This is both mind-boggling and very sad. How could you alter your body so radically without realizing, let alone coming to terms with, women’s oppression? That’s a denial of reality and a deeply flawed belief system.

  • Veronica Viramontes

    Hekate, I’ve read a ton of your comments and they are all so amazing and insightful they give me life. Thank you for sticking up for women and being a voice. I have a daughter and am just now starting my career so I am kind of in that boat where I can’t go too crazy but I still want to do something. Having a daughter I feel I need to change the world for her…which is why I feel I can’t just sit back and let things stay the way they are and let these lib fems take over politics and the minds of the people.

    • FierceMild

      I have a very young daughter as well. It is a hell of a motivating force.

  • Meghan Murphy

    I’m not sure what you’re responding to, in terms of what I’ve argued.

  • Veronica Viramontes

    Let’s make a “cisterhood” 🙂

  • FierceMild

    Leftist men support prostitution and pornography that is rape culture and rape apology.

  • FierceMild

    “Don’t tell me that an innocent Latina illegal immigrant that gets raped by the farm owner she works for as a near-slave has to go through more hardship than a female celebrity.”

    No one said that. It would be insane to believe that.

  • FierceMild

    That’s why I threw in my old career and am now back in school. I want to work in a woman-dominated profession.

  • Zuzanna Smith

    Don’t call us cis people, we don’t accept labels being forcibly applied to us which we don’t agree with, thank you. When you conflate males and females as the same “cis people” you are being dishonest. Males commit the majority of violent crimes including rape.

  • Zoë Lafantaisie

    Wow, I could have written that verbatim therealcie – except changing up the year of birth to 1957.
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/cc1e16e9fa092d5647376b65b6b40b47be60b3a5526de99f9f958beec0467857.jpg

  • Zoë Lafantaisie

    Wow Veronica – very well done! I had to laugh at
    “they’d probably pass out if they had to read plato!” LOL

  • Zoë Lafantaisie

    Could you be more specific Hekate please? I don’t know how their fortunes were started. Pimping?

    • Blazing Fire

      Hi Zoe, check this one:
      https://www.feministcurrent.com/2016/03/15/whats-current-11/

      It has a link to the details.
      You know what stood out for me? The way the old nut kept womankind (the more privileged, wealthier class atleast) blind about extreme male violence, and divided women against each other. You see, this is how he advertised his “restaurant”:
      He said it was the best one, but “would not advise respectable women to go there to sleep as they are liable to hear that which would be repugnant to their feelings and uttered, too, by the depraved of their own sex.”

      Hmmm. Here is what I say actually happened (it should be obvious now that we have seen a lot):
      The brothels were obviously a place where men (“customers”) played out all their hatered & savagery on the captive women. If any woman saw this, she would have been shell shocked at the cruelty metted out to those salves even if she is a very judgemental woman or considers prostituted women as a very low, crass class. She might demand that the prostitutes (irrespective of her view of them) be protected from atleast the most cruel actions. Even the judgemental, victim-blaming ones would be moved if they see extreme cruelty, bleeding & mauled women covered with blood & tears. So, to keep them in the dark about what the nice gentlemen complete with coat, suit, glasses and university degrees actually do to to women (and to keep away the risk of any suffragette-type woman from breaking the news out to the open & rescuing his money-producing women), he tells them “Hey lady, don’t come near this place ever! you are a very nice gentle & pure lady. You would die of a heart attack even if you heard one word from what the stinky women in my brothel keep on spewing all day & night” (while in reality they would have been begging to be let go &) “Yikes. They are sooo bad & lusty. But what do you expect from them? You better don’t come anywhere within a mile of my restaurant. Ok?”
      And obviously he’d tell his slave women that the other normal women hate them sooo much (much more that the violent “customers”) that they wouldn’t come within a mile of them.
      (But yeah, it’s not just trump’s grandpa – all “man”kind has been playing this double-speak drama for the last thousands of years – finally by God’s grace the voices of those oppressed women are coming out now)

  • acommentator

    “Nobody is demanding straight men see penises as female.”

    I agree with all you said. But on the above point, some MtT are starting to say that they should be seen as suitable partners by straight men. And expressing their unhappiness that men don’t treat them as women. Lots of MtT are gay.

    I expect that we will see that pick up. What I have not seen is any man who is not trans agreeing with it. Progressive guys will thunder in internet comment sections that “trans women are women. Period.” But they don’t date like they believe it. Because they don’t believe it.

  • genocidal_maniac

    Fuck that *guy*

  • Kurtz

    Paglia on insanity of transgenderism:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8BRdwgPChQ

  • Jani

    I’m finding it somewhat disconcerting that Rose McGowan has been strongly implicated in driving former manager Jill Messick to suicide, whereas Weinstein is portrayed as this neutral figure. Let’s just remember this — over 80 women have come forward with allegations of rape, sexual assault and unwelcome sexual behaviour against Weinstein. Rose McGowan is one of many women whose accounts are consistent. Almost all of the women have reported an apparent or implied complicity in the setting up of meetings between Weinstein and aspiring actresses. I’m not saying Jill Messick knowingly did this nor am I blaming her in any way. It’s not my place. I wasn’t there. But let’s not forget who is really to blame. Weinstein — despite his protestations that every sexual act with every woman who has reported rape and sexual assault was “consensual”. The suicide of Jill Messick is a tragedy and I see her very much as a victim of Weinstein too. Rose McGowan should not be singled out or in any way held responsible. We are all flawed individuals and those who have endured sexual assault probably even more so. Rose isn’t perfect. I’m not perfect. You’re not perfect. But the spotlight should always be turned on the perpetrator. Always. So let’s not forget that it’s Weinstein we need to be staring down here.

    • Wren

      Messick’s family is stating that the suicide was the result of McGowan’s actions and for calling out Merrick repeatedly in the press. I’m not saying this is true, because of course it’s not, I’m just mentioning it because it is coming directly from them, and not from general speculation:
      https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/rose-mcgowan-former-manager-death_us_5a7f4e4be4b0c6726e140bf1?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009

      Why the family wants to defend Weinstein and malign McGowan is a mystery to me.

    • skilletblonde

      Indeed. And let’s not forget about the mega public relations structure that Hollywood has, and what it is capable of? I have no doubt that they would use this tragedy to make it look like it’s McGowan’s fault.

    • Americus91

      When I heard about this I became infuriated. People need to learn that the Harvey Weinstein’s of the world – and there are plenty of them – not famous, not powerful, when they abuse one – there will always be ripple effects from it and have a negative impact on others.

      But as always – the finger pointing for all of the fallout goes towards the victims, time and time again, never the one who tipped the first domino.

      Don’t dare speak out about what’s been done to YOU – it may cause damage to others – and it will be YOUR fault – and that is exactly why predators get away with it time and time again.

  • Christine

    You’re right, Chris Hedges is an ally to women, but he’s a real leftist — the exception rather than the rule. Did you read Unspeakable, in which David Talbot interviews Hedges on various topics? When it comes to pornography, Talbot (who may describe himself as left-wing, but seems pretty neoliberal to me) reveals through his questions that he can’t understand Hedges’ position and can’t see why anyone would object to porn unless he or she were a total prude.

  • BornACrone

    When it comes to what to call guys in size 14 fuck-me pumps and lipgloss who think that means they get to tell rape survivors to STFU, I vote for “assholes.”

  • BornACrone

    Cram it up your ass, pal. We have NO responsibilities to do anything but speak our truth, and if you don’t like it, stick your fucking fingers in your ears and hum loud.

  • BornACrone

    I doubt this. Autism often makes you intense and socially clueless, but most of them are nice, just awkward and often acutely aware of other people’s pain to the point where it can paralyze them. These guys are flat-out toxic, not autistic. They can read social signals perfectly well, they choose to ignore them.

    The fact is that this guy knew damned well that he could get away with attacking a rape survivor who advocates unapologetically for women precisely because he knows the social rules of human society inside out. He knows damned well what he can get away with it, and that slapping on some lipstick and earrings and calling himself a woman is his get out of jail free card. He is cagey, smart, and ruthlessly aware of exactly what he’s doing. That’s not autism.

  • BornACrone

    Oh ffs, cram it, buddy.

  • BornACrone

    It’s when spoiled white boys in size 14 heels and 80s lipgloss try to coopt the struggles of black women to get away with shitting on all women.

  • BornACrone

    Boy George, Adam Ant, and the entire membership of Duran Duran would be very surprised to learn that makeup is a feminine standard.

    I thank Mother Nature every day that I grew up in the 80s when guys both straight and gay wore way more eye makeup than I ever did. Those were the days, I’m telling you.

  • BornACrone

    “Trying to do to us what straight men have been trying to do for ages.”

    And making suicide threats when they get turned down. (I swear, if I hear one more time about how the percentage of “trans” people who attempt suicide is like one bezillion percent, I’m going to vomit.) I remember my mom, who is 83, telling me about boys pulling that “if you don’t let me, I’ll kill myself” shit on her when she was a teenager. She just shrugged it off but that was the damned 1950s and they are STILL finding new ways to pull the same old shit.

    It really is exactly the same shit straight men have always pulled — when it quacks like a duck, it’s a duck.

  • BornACrone

    I am not a “cis” woman, I am a woman, you asshole. This cis bullshit has got to stop. For all of human history, women have been second-class human beings, and now we’re even second-class women. In both cases, the only ones of each that matter are the ones with dicks.

    Fuck that shit. I AM A WOMAN. There is no “cis” here. I am a WOMAN.

  • skilletblonde

    https://img.thedailybeast.com/image/upload/c_crop,d_placeholder_euli9k,h_1440,w_2560,x_0,y_0/dpr_2.0/c_limit,w_740/fl_lossy,q_auto/v1517613414/180202-Ennis-rose-mcgowan-lede_wwgf8m
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/87a90f25016b270e490bf0a0969dabbaa42bfab4e73b4b5a1313336d7fa30ab7.jpg
    These pictures are from a Daily Beast article that prominently featured the diatribe between Andi Dier and Rose McGowan. You will have to click on the link above to see the first photo with McGowan. The article is a grand display of biological Female Erasure. It was written by a Trans Activist named Dawn Ennis. Apparently, Ennis is a former ABC male producer that has changed his identity 3 times.

    Here is a before and after photo of Ennis.
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/a27dc2e9cd3381aae9c97a3ec3cddb1c566a57f5a5f4e5904fe4a9175dd89de3.jpg

    You can see what Ennis did here. The photos are meant to display Dier as more aesthetically pleasing female than McGowan. Of course none of us are surprised that Ennis would view women this way. The article’s content also presents Dier as the sympathetic female being bullied by an angry bigoted woman. In other words, it’s McGowan’s fault. For example.

    Excerpt:

    Dier told the Daily Beast that she did have sympathy and compassion for McGowan’s breakdown, but believes the essential reason her words triggered the actress and author was her own transphobia.

    “Her trauma was caused by men,” Dier said. “And I feel personally that maybe she has a traumatic response because she really does see us as men.”

    Ha! Ya think, Andrew? If you read the Daily Beast and read the article, not one biological woman was quoted. All opinions were of so called transwomen. And, herein lies the bloodcurdling problem. That’s right BLOODCURDLING! The word of these Trans Activists are treated as gospel. No one at the Daily Beast did an investigation on Dier’s character. As it has already been posted here, it appears the man is a sexual predator– who has targeted children. It’s an example of how the left who claims to be for women’s equality–has no idea what women’s equality is. Most of the left’s publications, podcast, websites, etc., are all comprised of men. The few women they employ had better agree, biological men have the final say on the defining of women and their sexuality. I implore you to go over to the Daily Beast read the article, and contact its editors. I’m very angry right now.

    Here is link to article:
    https://www.thedailybeast.com/trans-activist-who-confronted-rose-mcgowan-would-do-it-again-but-better?ref=scroll

  • skilletblonde

    Quote: I’m sure she’s received numerous threats from nasty individuals who see it as some sort of sick “fun”, but we also know from R McG that her rapist hired private investigators to gather info on her and his other victims.
    ————–
    If we had a decent Congress in the U.S. hearings should be conducted about Hollywood’s 100 years of abusing women and children. But, we don’t. The fact that Weinstein was using ex-Mossad Agents to terrify his victims should be seriously investigated. However, out of 535 members of Congress, only 106 are women. And frankly, I can’t think of any of those women that are strong feminists. I’ve heard basically nothing about Hollywood’s treatment of women from the women in Congress. No demands of nothing. The last woman in the U.S. Congress that was a vocal, strong, unflinching, women’s rights advocate was Bela Abzug. She served from 1973 to 1977. The election of Ronald Reagan, a second rate acting B movie star (and an accused rapist himself) in 1980, was a serious backlash against women’s rights. Now, we have a mob connected, sexual assaulting, unintelligent, lout for President, and the Congress is full of misogynists and racists.

    Goddess help us.

  • Sabine

    Another straight dude with pedo tendencies who likes to dress in a stereotypical ‘feminine’ way and to call himself a woman…but one who is far more oppressed than biological women…women who incidentally don’t actually exist because, after all being a woman is a choice! it’s all in the mind (if one happens to be male at least)… but yet they somehow do exist when it comes to making comparisons about oppression? And people actually listen to his bullshit?! I do not blame Rose McGowan for cancelling her other talks. What I don’t get is why these trans-activist psychos want to classify themselves as the very thing they openly hate! This person is a woman-hating male…presenting himself as a woman…Talk about fucked up in the head.

  • ak

    You know what was really telling in the aftermath of this? How many liberal media oulets reacted. First off, many just automatically vilified Rose McGowan without even looking into this Andi guy. Then, when the allegations came out, they’d just add quick footnotes to the original article, using language such as ‘if’, and ‘alleged’ and ‘both sides’, etc. Made me want to puke. They put on a show with the hashtag and buzzwords dujour, claiming to believe all women, yet the instant it involves a trans person, all of a sudden it’s ‘IF the allegations are true’ & they want to hear ‘both sides of the story’. Ugh.

  • Joel

    This is awful. As a male who identifies as trans (in the sense that I experience daily gender dysphoria), I have wrestled a lot with what it actually means to “feel female”. I’m clearly faced with the uncertainty of what that means outside of gender stereotypes. In fact, I believe I agree that being pressured by liberalism to acknowledge and validate someone else’s chosen “gender identity” is regressive, as it continues to further and validate the concept of gender itself. I think it’s likely that if I had never felt pressured to conform to male stereotypes that I don’t identify with throughout my life that I wouldn’t have as strong a desire to “be female” or be seen as such. Gender roles are the real oppressor, and allow people like Andi to manipulate trans support to get some societal protection for their sick, abusive, and oppressive ways. It’s disgusting, and as much as I know first-hand the desire to identify as female, I can never condone switching the focus from the real struggles women face everyday to the very different struggles of trans-identified males. Women have been erased for too long.